Death

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HNA444

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I am kind of confused on people dying. Because, since God has a plan for us all, does that mean that the day of someone’s death is meant to be? What about tragic deaths of young children, or any other tragedy? Is their death meant to be that day, but was just in an unfortunate situation?
 
God absolutely has a plan for all of us. But keep in mind we do have a free will. It’s important to keep that balance between God’s will and our will.

If i believe God is too much in control, i’ll kick back and probably give in to a bunch of sinful thoughts, words, and deeds. No worry - God is in control. See the problem there?

If i believe i am in too much control, i’ll give myself credit for the good things that happen to me and thus lead to pride. But also when some sort of travesty does occur i’ll be baffled as to why i wasn’t able to avoid it since it was objectively through no fault of my own. So this theory of my being in control falls apart very easily, too.

Tragedies happen. Sometimes it is in our control or it is in God’s control. A suicide can be a pretty clear cut case of someone using their free will as a means to death, and to the detriment of their souls at that. A deadly cancer that could not have been reasonably avoided through that person’s doing is a pretty clear cut case of death that is arrived at by God’s doing.

When God does allow something “bad” to happen it is for a greater good. Again, this can get sticky because there is still the element of free will in play. God can allow something “bad” to happen because He perceives it will be to our ultimate good since He is trusting we will choose correctly in such a case. He knows what we are capable of better than we do ourselves.

So: little evil so more good is yielded from it. The beautiful blossoms must fall before the fruit springs forth, no?
 
HNA444 said:
I am kind of confused on people dying. Because, since God has a plan for us all, does that mean that the day of someone’s death is meant to be? What about tragic deaths of young children, or any other tragedy? Is their death meant to be that day, but was just in an unfortunate situation?
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Who knows?

But we do know this:
“We know that all things work for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose… He who did not spare his own Son… will He not give us everything else along with Him?” Romans 8: 28,32

And we also know this:
“…neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, … will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 8: 38-39

I don’t believe Paul is talking about the events in this life, which are full of unpredictability, evil, unfortunate events, and tragedy. I think he is talking about after this life, that God will make sure no matter what happens here, all will be well with Him forever for those who believe (and children, according to the Church, are automatically included in that category-- born or not incidentally).
 
Well since you brought the after life up, I am thinking that since God knows everything and that he know swhen our death will be… but, that he does not will the way we die, correct? I don’t know, I am just a little confused. I do know that I love God and I know he wants only good for us, I just want to know more about death, because I always hear people saying different things about it. Some people say, “God takes the best”, etc. I just don’t know what it is really. I guess it’s something that I shouldn’t question, but I am just curious.
 
HNA444 said:
I am kind of confused on people dying. Because, since God has a plan for us all, does that mean that the day of someone’s death is meant to be? What about tragic deaths of young children, or any other tragedy? Is their death meant to be that day, but was just in an unfortunate situation?
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It depends on what you believe about the existance of a God and what you believe about that God I suppose.
 
HNA444 said:
Well since you brought the after life up, I am thinking that since God knows everything and that he know swhen our death will be… but, that he does not will the way we die, correct? I don’t know, I am just a little confused. I do know that I love God and I know he wants only good for us, I just want to know more about death, because I always hear people saying different things about it. Some people say, “God takes the best”, etc. I just don’t know what it is really. I guess it’s something that I shouldn’t question, but I am just curious.
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I may get creamed for saying this but I don’t think anyone knows the answers to these kind of questions. So, I quit asking so I didn’t drive myself crazy! (oops catch you later my hubby just got home from a business trip!)
 
HNA444…we all are born- not so much with a plan-but a purpose…from the day we are born we are on a journey finding our way home. because of our own freewill and the freewill of others-there are many variables to how that purpose will play out-the culmination of that purpose is when we are able to leave this life … for instance someone may have come with the purpose of inspiring faith in alot of people to find God…that person may become a Priest or Nun and do it one person or congregation at a time…or- that person may have been someone who lost their lives in 9/11-etc etc etc…in each case the culmination of that life completed the purpose…hope this helps
 
JCnMe said:
HNA444…we all are born- not so much with a plan-but a purpose…from the day we are born we are on a journey finding our way home. because of our own freewill and the freewill of others-there are many variables to how that purpose will play out-the culmination of that purpose is when we are able to leave this life … for instance someone may have come with the purpose of inspiring faith in alot of people to find God…that person may become a Priest or Nun and do it one person or congregation at a time…or- that person may have been someone who lost their lives in 9/11-etc etc etc…in each case the culmination of that life completed the purpose…hope this helps
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Yes, tell me how the death of an unborn in the womb by abortion helps God’s plan?

Or those from a natural disater your God makes?

Or starvation? I could go on…
 
Think about it- you’ll figure it out-go back and read my explanation until you do-and if you can’t do it on your own ask God to help you-…that’s what He’s waiting for- you to ask- apparently you haven’t met
 
JCnMe said:
Think about it- you’ll figure it out-go back and read my explanation until you do-and if you can’t do it on your own ask God to help you-…that’s what He’s waiting for- you to ask- apparently you haven’t met
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Oh please stop right there. I have been going to Mass more frequently than most practicing catholics do. (I go at least 3 times a week) and adoration too.
 
That’s a good first step- but apparently you still do not understand…attendance in body but not mind?
 
Oh my…
Well, as I said, NO ONE knows the answers to these questions. Only God does (and some would say, if He exists). But, whatever the pains and anguishes: children dying in wombs, children dying of H1N1 (4 here, one a short ways from my house), or young children losing their mother to breast cancer or their father to colon cancer (happened to two of my friends respectively), whatever… faith exists only in the unanswerable questions. One can’t believe in a certainty or fact. So, that’s why I just decided not to dwell on these questions. There will never be an answer until we die, which all of us must.
 
Bailey2 said:
Oh my…
Well, as I said, NO ONE knows the answers to these questions. Only God does (and some would say, if He exists). But, whatever the pains and anguishes: children dying in wombs, children dying of H1N1 (4 here, one a short ways from my house), or young children losing their mother to breast cancer or their father to colon cancer (happened to two of my friends respectively), whatever… faith exists only in the unanswerable questions. One can’t believe in a certainty or fact. So, that’s why I just decided not to dwell on these questions. There will never be an answer until we die, which all of us must.
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Hello,

I tend to agree with the spirit of your post, but wonder why the catholic church teaches that the sufferings of these we speak of here, is “for the greater good”?
 
No offense StrawberryJam, but if you don’t agree with the Catholic faith, than why are you on this forum? Because, I kind of find what you are writing to be offensive.
 
Good morning!! 🙂

Took me a while to figure out the people on this thread! Lots of letters! But I think I got it. HNA444 asked the original question from a point of view of practicing Catholic with a “determination vs free will” question. JCNMe answered the question based on her knowledge of our faith. Straw Jam (Welcome!) challenges from the point of view of an agnostic Catholic who believes with questions (she/he believes-goes to mass, is Catholic but doubts???). Any of you please correct me if I am wrong here. 🙂

My thoughts:

When I tortured myself with these questions in great doubt my sp dir. told me the line “I believe, Lord help my unbelief.” He also said we believe, but imperfectly since we are human so I was not to worry about being faithful and having doubts at the same time.

Being one prone to depression I realized that if I stayed in my head with these unanswerable questions (like St. Thomas) then I would never look outside myself to the wonderful things in life that point to the love of God (for Thomas it was the Risen Jesus, for us it is Jesus within all people–the gift of life).

So then I asked myself the question, would love do any of those terrible things in a predetermined manner? I loved my kids; would I do such a thing to them? No. Well, if God loves us like children, He probably (but no one knows for sure) would not. But, will my children climb up a tree and accidentally fall down (free will)? Probably, since my youngest especially is reckless and inquisitive by nature (why he is on 4 hockey teams to keep him busy and out of trouble!). So I decided to leave the unanswerable question alone for my own sanity and take my place as a stupid human and let God be God with the answers.

This is simply how I resolved the issue *for myself./I], right or wrong. Each person has to find his or her own way with this. JCNMe, you are obviously at peace with this… and I think what I just said here is the same or at least similar to what you said.

I hate to write long posts. People tend not to read them. But, I couldn’t find a way to write this one shorter at 6:30 a.m.! 🙂 So that’s my two cents. And again, welcome Strawberry Jam and thank you for such a stimulating question HNA444. And thank you for your faith, JCNMe. Later.

Saw this today in scripture and resolved to practice it today: “Let us then pursue what leads to peace and to building up one another.” Romans 14:19 How did I do? :love:*
 
Bailey2 said:
Good morning!! 🙂

Took me a while to figure out the people on this thread! Lots of letters! But I think I got it. HNA444 asked the original question from a point of view of practicing Catholic with a “determination vs free will” question. JCNMe answered the question based on her knowledge of our faith. Straw Jam (Welcome!) challenges from the point of view of an agnostic Catholic who believes with questions (she/he believes-goes to mass, is Catholic but doubts???). Any of you please correct me if I am wrong here. 🙂

My thoughts:

When I tortured myself with these questions in great doubt my sp dir. told me the line “I believe, Lord help my unbelief.” He also said we believe, but imperfectly since we are human so I was not to worry about being faithful and having doubts at the same time.

Being one prone to depression I realized that if I stayed in my head with these unanswerable questions (like St. Thomas) then I would never look outside myself to the wonderful things in life that point to the love of God (for Thomas it was the Risen Jesus, for us it is Jesus within all people–the gift of life).

So then I asked myself the question, would love do any of those terrible things in a predetermined manner? I loved my kids; would I do such a thing to them? No. Well, if God loves us like children, He probably (but no one knows for sure) would not. But, will my children climb up a tree and accidentally fall down (free will)? Probably, since my youngest especially is reckless and inquisitive by nature (why he is on 4 hockey teams to keep him busy and out of trouble!). So I decided to leave the unanswerable question alone for my own sanity and take my place as a stupid human and let God be God with the answers.

This is simply how I resolved the issue *for myself./I], right or wrong. Each person has to find his or her own way with this. JCNMe, you are obviously at peace with this… and I think what I just said here is the same or at least similar to what you said.

I hate to write long posts. People tend not to read them. But, I couldn’t find a way to write this one shorter at 6:30 a.m.! 🙂 So that’s my two cents. And again, welcome Strawberry Jam and thank you for such a stimulating question HNA444. And thank you for your faith, JCNMe. Later.

Saw this today in scripture and resolved to practice it today: “Let us then pursue what leads to peace and to building up one another.” Romans 14:19 How did I do? :love:*

Thank you !! 🙂
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From the moment we are born untill we die is in Gods hands. We do not live one moment past the time we are meant to die no matter what the age. The saying it was His/her time to go is right.

Antrim
 
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