Debate circumcision ethics call

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Well I suppose then, if parental consent is the only thing needed and doctor’s opinions count for nothing, I could, as a parent, demand the right to cut off my child’s earlobes based on a religious belief I have just decided I have.

Is that ok too? I mean, I am the parent, and I have given my consent, and I say it is based on my religion.
Are there documented health benefits to cutting off earlobes? I’d like to see a reference on that. I’ll show you mine if you show me yours.

webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision

There is some evidence that circumcision has health benefits, including:
  • A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
  • A reduced risk of sexually transmitted diseases in men.
  • Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
  • Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
  • Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).
Circumcision also makes it easier to keep the end of the penis clean.
 
Huh? What are you suggesting in your first comment?

I have made it clear how religious choice stands in the UK, in relation to unnecessary medical procedures.
It means that babies and kids are not literally always clean…and it is a proven fact that cicumcision cuts down the occurence of infections.
 
Are there documented health benefits to cutting off earlobes? I’d like to see a reference on that. I’ll show you mine if you show me yours.

webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision

There is some evidence that circumcision has health benefits, including:
  • A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
  • A reduced risk of sexually transmitted diseases in men.
  • Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
  • Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
  • Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).
Circumcision also makes it easier to keep the end of the penis clean.
But those asking for it aren’t requesting it based on medical reasons, but religion and parental consent. So I should have it, right?

Well, as to your evidence. Of course removal of the foreskin is going to result in… decreased risk of the foreskin becoming inflammed. The same way that having your appendix removed has a decreased risk of having appendicitus. Same for all of the conditions which affect the foreskin. The possibility of something maybe becoming infected or swollen is never a reason to remove something, otherwise we wouldn’t have any organs incase they become cancerous.

The rest relate to cleanliness. If you keep it clean, then you are less likely to carry the HPV virus which can cause cervical cancer in women, and also less likely to have UTIs.

Having a circumsion can increase the risk of other health complaints, detailed in the article, not including the risks of the actual surgery itself.
 
But those asking for it aren’t requesting it based on medical reasons, but religion and parental consent. So I should have it, right?

Well, as to your evidence. Of course removal of the foreskin is going to result in… decreased risk of the foreskin becoming inflammed. The same way that having your appendix removed has a decreased risk of having appendicitus. Same for all of the conditions which affect the foreskin. The possibility of something maybe becoming infected or swollen is never a reason to remove something, otherwise we wouldn’t have any organs incase they become cancerous.

The rest relate to cleanliness. If you keep it clean, then you are less likely to carry the HPV virus which can cause cervical cancer in women, and also less likely to have UTIs.

Having a circumsion can increase the risk of other health complaints, detailed in the article, not including the risks of the actual surgery itself.
I’d like to see a peer reviewed study comparing people who have suffered ill health effects from having circumcision and men who have not. My guess is that men who have not been circumcised will show greater negative health consequences.
 
I’d like to see a peer reviewed study comparing people who have suffered ill health effects from having circumcision and men who have not. My guess is that men who have not been circumcised will show greater negative health consequences.
Some quotes for you now -
Studies about the benefits of circumcision have provided conflicting results. Some studies show certain benefits, while other studies do not. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) says the benefits of circumcision are not significant enough to recommend circumcision as a routine procedure and that circumcision is not medically necessary.
Some studies show that keeping the penis clean can help prevent these problems just as well as circumcision.
familydoctor.org/online/famdocen/home/men/reproductive/042.html
 
Still, what business is it of the doctor to overrule a decision that I am making for my kids?
Maybe the doctor cares about their professional conduct and reputation?

Or maybe the doctor has to respect the rules and regulations of their employer?

Doctors aren’t there to do what you want them to.
 
Maybe the doctor cares about their professional conduct and reputation?

Or maybe the doctor has to respect the rules and regulations of their employer?

Doctors aren’t there to do what you want them to.
No problem, I call the local synagogue and talk to the Mohel.
 
A group of circumcised men is calling on British doctors to debate the ethics of the procedure at the British Medical Association conference this week.

NORM-UK is a support group for men who say they have been harmed.

It has held its first public demonstration in the UK, lobbying delegates in Cardiff.

It wants British doctors to recognise circumcision as major, irreversible surgery that should not be carried out on new-born babies.

There are no accurate figures, but an estimated 30,000 boys are circumcised in the UK every year. The majority of them as a result of their parents’ religious faith.

Islamic, Jewish and some Christian communities circumcise male children as a matter of course.

bbc.co.uk/news/health-13932711
Hi LemonAndLime:

Circumcision used to be common in America (it is now declining), but it is not “normal” by any stretch of the imagination. It is rare in all of Europe, China, India, and Latin America. It is only common in the Middle East and North/West Africa. See here:

who.int/hiv/pub/malecircumcision/infopack_en_2.pdf

Worldwide, over 70% of the world’s males are not circumcised, and of those 30% that are, most are done for religious/cultural reasons, rather than medical ones. As for the claim that opposition to circumcision comes from anti-semitism, this is easily refuted by looking up the statistics; the majority of circumsized males are not Jewish, but rather Muslim. And yes, Muslims are “semitic” peoples, but this is clearly not the sense of the term being used here.

I come from the “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” school of thought (in other words, don’t circumcise an infant unless you can show a real, definable, medical benefit from it…with today’s emphasis on modern hygiene and germ theory, this means very few, in practice). This is one of those things religions could easily give up, like the prohibition on pork, which used to make sense when trichinosis and other forms of disease were commonplace, but certainly not anymore. Religions in general need to be more open to adjusting non-essential practices such as these, particularly as science and medicine advance, because they will continue to advance, whether religions follow them and keep up, or are left behind.

In addition, I think that societal, legal or governmental support for male circumcision for religious/cultural reasons gives moral and spiritual ammunition to those who wish to circumcise females as well (yup, female circumcision is commonplace in North/West Africa and the Middle East as well, and it is similarly “justified” by religious and cultural reasons).

who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/

I don’t believe elective or cosmetic (and basically irreversible) surgery should be performed on anyone without their consent, and I especially would oppose it if a universality of people in a country were forced to fund it because they were living under a government-monopoly on health care, as they do in Canada, and in other countries.

Because so many American media sources promote circumcision, I thought it might be helpful to post a critique here, for what it’s worth:

circumcision.org/information.htm

I hope this helps:

Jacques.
 
Should vanity breats implants be allowed?
NO BAN THEM ALL!

Well, I see the arguement. A child is not given the option of “choosing” what is called and elective procedure. Not sure how many parents are considering giving their newborn daughters breast implants, but I am sure it is rare enough to warrant a front page news story, and I am not sure there are documented health benefits for having implants.
 
Should vanity breats implants be allowed?
Breast altercation is normally done to adult women who make that decision. I understand it is sometimes done on teenagers with parental consent, but the teen would still be part of this decision.

Circumcision is performed on newborns who cannot voice their opinion.
 
Breast altercation is normally done to adult women who make that decision. I understand it is sometimes done on teenagers with parental consent, but the teen would still be part of this decision.

Circumcision is performed on newborns who cannot voice their opinion.
Young teenagers have had breat implants, and sorry they are NOT old enough to make such choices. Yet, their parents give approval and that is HOW it should be.

What’s even more distrubing is the trend to allow young gnder confused minors the option of having surgery to change their sex…that is now being done LONG before the person can truly know who they really are as a person. Yet, those surgeries are seen as loving and merciful, while a potentially healthy circumcision is frowned upon.
 
Young teenagers have had breat implants, and sorry they are NOT old enough to make such choices. Yet, their parents give approval and that is HOW it should be.

What’s even more distrubing is the trend to allow young gnder confused minors the option of having surgery to change their sex…that is now being done LONG before the person can truly know who they really are as a person. Yet, those surgeries are seen as loving and merciful, while a potentially healthy circumcision is frowned upon.
We’re not talking about breast implants or gender-altaring surgery.
 
We’re not talking about breast implants or gender-altaring surgery.
I know…but it is funny how other things are not questioned…yet a procedure that has stoos for thousands of years is now being questioned by the modern elitists who think they know better than anyone else. Frankly, it sickens me.
 
I know…but it is funny how other things are not questioned…yet a procedure that has stoos for thousands of years is now being questioned by the modern elitists who think they know better than anyone else. Frankly, it sickens me.
The difference is that for breast surgery and gender-changing surgery in the UK, you have to be 18 or over, thus able to consent to it yourself.

With a baby being circumsiced, they are unable to consent, it’s done only for religious reasons and not for medical.
 
I agree with Royal Dutch Medical Association. I think RIC is a violation of “children’s rights to autonomy and physical integrity.” Although I completely support the right of adult and teenage(with parental consent) men to make the decision.

mensnewsdaily.com/2010/05/30/royal-dutch-medical-association-male-circumcision-medically-unnecessary/

The reality is that the US is alone in this practice. Only a rather myopic worldview would see this as necessary or beneficial. European, South American, Australian, and Canadian men have no additional health complications from not having healthy tissue removed as infants. Most justifications given for the procedure now involve father/son nudity and locker rooms.

With better access to accurate medical information and other cultures our society seems to be slowly rejecting the blind conformity of the past. There has been drastic drop in the national circ rate since the 1970s(when it was over 90%). I just wish it would happen faster:
well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/u-s-circumcision-rates-on-the-decline/
 
I agree with Royal Dutch Medical Association. I think RIC is a violation of “children’s rights to autonomy and physical integrity.” Although I completely support the right of adult and teenage(with parental consent) men to make the decision.

mensnewsdaily.com/2010/05/30/royal-dutch-medical-association-male-circumcision-medically-unnecessary/

The reality is that the US is alone in this practice. Only a rather myopic worldview would see this as necessary or beneficial. European, South American, Australian, and Canadian men have no additional health complications from not having healthy tissue removed as infants. Most justifications given for the procedure now involve father/son nudity and locker rooms.

With better access to accurate medical information and other cultures our society seems to be slowly rejecting the blind conformity of the past. There has been drastic drop in the national circ rate since the 1970s(when it was over 90%). I just wish it would happen faster:
well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/u-s-circumcision-rates-on-the-decline/
When an infant can go out, get a job, and pay the rent, then you can talk to me about autonomy. Until then, I make the decisions for my kids.
 
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