F
Frost
Guest
They didn’t have a formal same-sex union according to the Bible.
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P
Psychotheosophy
Guest
I want to apologize for my previous statements.
I do not want to give explanations or excuses,
But I do not think I can reasonably discuss this topic.
I do not want to give explanations or excuses,
But I do not think I can reasonably discuss this topic.
U
usnlt76
Guest
The points you got from the website range from irrelevant to completely misleading.A friend of mine is going to be debating in my AP Psych class. (Believe it or not, our schedule had time for a “fun” activity, and this was it.) This is completely open-- it can get personal, it can get political, it can get religious!
Now, this is one on one, extra credit, and my friend was qualified for it. She is assigned to argue against it, but here’s the problem.
I wanted to help her out because God knows she needed the credit, so we went to a bunch of religious sites that would, of course help her out (no matter how embarrassed I was as a Catholic to read such hate). We found a site called sacred-text.com. Here’s what we found on the LGBT section (which I was pleasantly surprised to find):
Did you know?
This poses a threat to her extra credit because her opponent is God-awesome at debates. How can we compete with this, assuming that these points may be addressed?
- Of 32,000 verses in the Bible, only five directly mention homosexuality.
- The Qur’an only directly mentions homosexuality once.
- Leviticus, the book of the Bible which stipulates death for homosexuality, requires the same punishment for adultery, pre-marital sex, disobedient children and blasphemy.
- The Biblical Jesus does not condemn homosexuality.
- The destruction of the Biblical city of Sodom was due to their mistreatment of strangers.
- The Bible never condemns same sex marriage.
- The Biblical David and Jonathan had a formal same-sex union.
- ‘Traditional marriage’ in the Bible includes polygamy.
- No known sacred text forbids same sex marriage.
- Very few sacred texts even mention homosexuality.
- Hindu and other far eastern sacred texts do not condemn homosexuality.
- Homosexuality is not unnatural, it is practised by hundreds of species of animals.
Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood
–Counting the number of mentions of homosexuality in the Bible is an attempted misdirection. There are a lot of important things the Bible doesn’t mention once let alone 5 times. The Bible has a lot to cover, should we expect a whole chapter on homosexuality?
–Leviticus is not a particularly good place to look for moral teachings b/c it was written for an ancient Jewish audience.
–Jesus taught a lot of things. He taught a lot that was never mentioned in the Bible. There really wasn’t room for Jesus to spell out every forbidden act and behavior, but He certainly never condoned homosexuality. Also, every time He mentioned marriage and relationships it was man/woman.
–Sacred texts do not prohibit gay marriage by name b/c it was commonly understood in the time that the texts were written that marriage is between a man and a woman. Texts were not written to state the obvious.
–The Sodom translation mentioned in your quote is in dispute. Most translations call the crimes sexual mistreatment of strangers, not just picking on them.
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fix
Guest
That is what they want you to believe. But, the statement is not proof.
Because the natural law involves the 10 commandments.
1955 The “divine and natural” law6 shows man the way to follow so as to practice the good and attain his end. The natural law states the first and essential precepts which govern the moral life. It hinges upon the desire for God and submission to him, who is the source and judge of all that is good, as well as upon the sense that the other is one’s equal. Its principal precepts are expressed in the Decalogue. This law is called “natural,” not in reference to the nature of irrational beings, but because reason which decrees it properly belongs to human nature
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Blade_and_Blood
Guest
Okay, you guys. The debate is done and over with. 
My friend lost. 
But at least she got 25 points extra credit; that’s always helpful.
Talk amongst yourselves until I found a way to close this thing.
Thank you for all your help! It kept her in for a good half-hour!
Ironically Yours.
My friend lost. But at least she got 25 points extra credit; that’s always helpful. Talk amongst yourselves until I found a way to close this thing.
Thank you for all your help! It kept her in for a good half-hour!
Ironically Yours.
P
Psychotheosophy
Guest
Tell me if you think this is unreasonable…
Remove Form from a man
And he has deformity, like cancer
Or disintegration, like death
So we naturally seek Form
Also
A particle is not a man
But
Form the particles
into the form of a man
And a man is created
Therefore
Form gives Existence
By Forming
Therefore
Since nothing precedes Existence
Form is Existence
Therefore
Since God is Existence
God is Form
Therefore
A formation (or union)
That is closed to giving Existence
Is not the Form (or union)
We naturally seek
And so
Homosexual and Contraceptive sexual unions
Go against
What we naturally seek
Remove Form from a man
And he has deformity, like cancer
Or disintegration, like death
So we naturally seek Form
Also
A particle is not a man
But
Form the particles
into the form of a man
And a man is created
Therefore
Form gives Existence
By Forming
Therefore
Since nothing precedes Existence
Form is Existence
Therefore
Since God is Existence
God is Form
Therefore
A formation (or union)
That is closed to giving Existence
Is not the Form (or union)
We naturally seek
And so
Homosexual and Contraceptive sexual unions
Go against
What we naturally seek
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Psychotheosophy
Guest
…And so
Existence begins at conception
And so
Contraceptive use
Homosexual sexual union
and
Abortion
Are of a similar attitude
Which go against
What we naturally seek
P
Psychotheosophy
Guest
I may be getting off topic, but…
Since the embryo
does not disintegrate
before becoming human
And
Since the embryo
does not integrate with something else
to become human
Then
The Existence of the embryo
Is
The Existence of a human being
So
Splitting this Existence in our belief
Leads to
Splitting this Existence in our behavior
And also
Faith in Existence
Leads to
Seeing missing relevant information
And
Defending Existence in our behavior
An Existence
Which we naturally seek
T
tman07
Guest
Celebacy is not in the 10 commandments or Natural Moral law so how can it be a valid alternative to Reproduction.
Also If it doesn’t say that they had a same sex union in the bible why would they say it was?
one thing i dont understand is why God would want people to be unhappy. If two people love eachother and are not hurting anyone why shouldnt they be alowed to be happy. I wonder what people would say if hetrosexuality was a sin and not homosexuality, i firmly believe hetrosexuals would be arguing against the church rather than homosexuals.
A
AndyF
Guest
Blade:
If the debate is among students of all “religions”, then not much of value that is worth anything will result from it. If among Catholics you are debating with students who are sworn to the dogma of the Church, so by it they default to the opinion of the Church. If they disagree with this, then they need to review some basic precepts.
Just some thoughts and questions all concerned should ask themselves.
Debating the justice of a Supreme Authority’s law is to benefit the students in which way?
The school has determined (on behalf of ?) that it is entirely permissive to do so.?
Who are really presenting the case for the affirmative and negative?
In the interest of the students, the school has determined that regardless of the outcome the positive results will be…?
Since the attitudes and behavior of the subjects are always under scrutiny of the Authority in question, and should the debate conclude in favor of the negative, what lesson in Wisdom, not Knowledge, has he learned.?
Are the results guaranteed to influence others in a way that betters the relationship with the Authority, and if not will the Authority be pleased by it.?
Some other points pertaining to your list.
Since the Holy Spirit established the one and only legitimate Church, there are no other religions recognized by God. So “going to other…” is irrelevant. What the Quran says that doesn’t agree to Dogma is immaterial.
The New Testament condemns homosexuality. His apostles had authority to forgive or retain sins, therefore the Holy Spirit speaking through them gives them authority in Jesus’ name, and what they degree through inspiration is bonafide.
The Bible condemns same sex (?) by God’s definition of Sacred Marriage. Therefore the ritual is not a Marriage by definition, and since God would not be presiding, satan to his glee takes his place and it becomes a cult ritual. He didn’t need to mention a cow and a man wouldn’t make a marriage either.
There are others in your list I can address, but since you enjoy researching…
AndyF
If the debate is among students of all “religions”, then not much of value that is worth anything will result from it. If among Catholics you are debating with students who are sworn to the dogma of the Church, so by it they default to the opinion of the Church. If they disagree with this, then they need to review some basic precepts.
Just some thoughts and questions all concerned should ask themselves.
Debating the justice of a Supreme Authority’s law is to benefit the students in which way?
The school has determined (on behalf of ?) that it is entirely permissive to do so.?
Who are really presenting the case for the affirmative and negative?
In the interest of the students, the school has determined that regardless of the outcome the positive results will be…?
Since the attitudes and behavior of the subjects are always under scrutiny of the Authority in question, and should the debate conclude in favor of the negative, what lesson in Wisdom, not Knowledge, has he learned.?
Are the results guaranteed to influence others in a way that betters the relationship with the Authority, and if not will the Authority be pleased by it.?
Some other points pertaining to your list.
Since the Holy Spirit established the one and only legitimate Church, there are no other religions recognized by God. So “going to other…” is irrelevant. What the Quran says that doesn’t agree to Dogma is immaterial.
The New Testament condemns homosexuality. His apostles had authority to forgive or retain sins, therefore the Holy Spirit speaking through them gives them authority in Jesus’ name, and what they degree through inspiration is bonafide.
The Bible condemns same sex (?) by God’s definition of Sacred Marriage. Therefore the ritual is not a Marriage by definition, and since God would not be presiding, satan to his glee takes his place and it becomes a cult ritual. He didn’t need to mention a cow and a man wouldn’t make a marriage either.
There are others in your list I can address, but since you enjoy researching…
AndyF
P
Psychotheosophy
Guest
Our End
Goodness
Happiness
Form
And
Existence
Are all the same thing
And
A celebate man or woman
Gay or straight (regardless of religion)
Can be creative
A same-sex sexual union (regardless of religion)
Is not creative
T
tman07
Guest
why isnt it?
I personally dont believe in same sex marrages but I believe everyone has the right to love and be loved and feel that love and to be told that they are loved. I dont think it is fair to deny them that which can in cases lead to feel lonely, especially if they see there friends (gay or straight) all with partners bieng romantic. how would you feel if you told you won’t be aloud into heaven becasue of something beyond your control or how would you feel if you saw all of your friends in happy relationships that are accepted by the church (regardless of thier personal religion or lack of it) and you knew that you would never be accepted. I believe it leads people to feel alone, estranged from the Church and God and also from thier fellow christians who consider them to be mentally ill because of thier homosexuality even if otherwise they are one of the most rational and logical people. Gay people are still people.
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Psychotheosophy
Guest
You can love and be love
And told that you are loved
Without same-sex sexual unions
You can feel lonely
In same-sex relationships
Not all straight people
Have romantic partners
Sexual actions are within our control
Gay and Straight people
Can have happy relationships
And be accepted by the Church
Same-sex relationships (gay or straight)
Can have feelings of estrangement and loneliness
Gay people
Like everybody else
Can be very rational and logical
And
Can be very irrational and illogical
Cognitive Therapy was created for use of all people.
T
tman07
Guest
Difference is Straight people are allowed to pursue there sexuality where as if a Gay person does it then its sin.
F
fix
Guest
Celibacy is consistent with both of those laws. How does a single person keep the law regarding adultery?
I have no idea who makes these crazy claims but they are the ones with the burden to prove it.
He wants us to be happy. We are not “happy” when we sin. The illicit thrill is not happiness.
The problem is your premise contradicts logic, Scripture, Tradition, the natural law, and the 10 commandments.
F
FM927
Guest
TMAN07, I understand exactly what you are saying.why isnt it?
I personally dont believe in same sex marrages but I believe everyone has the right to love and be loved and feel that love and to be told that they are loved. I dont think it is fair to deny them that which can in cases lead to feel lonely, especially if they see there friends (gay or straight) all with partners bieng romantic. how would you feel if you told you won’t be aloud into heaven becasue of something beyond your control or how would you feel if you saw all of your friends in happy relationships that are accepted by the church (regardless of thier personal religion or lack of it) and you knew that you would never be accepted. I believe it leads people to feel alone, estranged from the Church and God and also from thier fellow christians who consider them to be mentally ill because of thier homosexuality even if otherwise they are one of the most rational and logical people. Gay people are still people.
My cousins is gay and my aunt who is getting old and not doing too well, is very concerned about him. She would love to see him in a relationship with someone who would love him for the wonderful person that he is. In her eyes she wants him to be happy and if that means being with someone of the same sex, then so be it, ( She was not happy when she found out he was gay, but because she loves him unconditionally she has accepted his lifestyle and wants him to lead a life as normal as it could be lived under the circumstances) As you said" Gay people are still people"
My feelings regarding judgement of someone or a circumstance is that “YOU HAVE TO HAVE WALKED IN THE OTHER PERSON’s SHOES TO REALLY UNDERSTAND”, otherwise you are just speculating!
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Psychotheosophy
Guest
If your identity is a same-sex sexual union
You will not be accepted.
But we are not same-sex sexual unions
Which gives us common ground.
Do Gay Pride marches
Present the great contributions
Gay men and women have done
Or is its focus sexuality?
P
Psychotheosophy
Guest
Have you ever heard
of the the Catholic Apostolate
called “Courage”
We all could learn from them.
P
Psychotheosophy
Guest
Let me firmly clarify,
I have never had same-sex sexual attractions
So I hope no one is found flat-footed
regarding this issue
R
RobbyS
Guest
Celibacy is simply the single state. There are lots of people who are celibate chaste or not. They are called bachelors or spinsters.
They want an example from the Bible to prove their belief that
“the Bible” does not condemn their practice.
What do you means by happy? People who take dope are “happy.” People who drink, smoke, chew, are “happy,” at least for a little while. But ought you not ask, "to what end? Paul talsk about treating our bodies as temples of the soul, but people addicted to vice, use bodies as means of achieving pleasure, and temporary pleasure at that. And we tend to treat others pretty much as we treat ourselves, as objects of pleasure. The epicure may indeed be a kindly person, and he may indeed pamper himself, but if so it is only to prolong his life as long as he may, for he expects nothing after death. But for everyone who can establish this balance, there are many more who cannot. For every man who is satified with fine taste, there are a hundred gluttons. The libertine is seldom a happy man because he can never be satisfied.
Sexuality is the most powerful appetite we have, and not kept within bounds, it can ruin one’s health, and the health of our partners. If we admit there is healthy sex, and unhealthy sex, then we must admit that some practices are not as health as others. A man who forces sex on a girl who is too young, save 11 or 12, will cause a pregnancy that ruins her bladder and dooms her to a life of incontinence. Likewise if he has frequent anal sex with either a man or a woman, he will cause serious infection. Homosexuality can be condemned simply for hygenic purposes, because so many STDs result from it. Ironic that smoking is restricted because it might cause cancer, and homosexuality is not, though it leads to AIDS as frequently that smoking leaders to cancer.
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