Debate over the Cross threatens Jewish participation in Assisi event

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Rome’s Rabbi Riccardo Di Segni, provoked by a statement from a leading Vatican official about the meaning of the Cross, has raised questions about whether he and other Italian Jews might pull out of the interfaith gathering for peace in Assisi.

The debate began with Cardinal Kurt Koch, the president of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity, referred to the Cross as “the permanent and universal Yom Kippur.” Rabbi Di Segni strongly objected, saying that the cardinal’s statement trivialized the meaning of the Yom Kippur that Jews still observe…
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Ahimsa:
Cardinal Koch apparently goofed. He should never have mixed major historic faiths that way.
 
While the good Cardinal can certainly be accused of being , " impolitic " ; I think he is correct , and the truth always matters .Yom Kippur is the Jewish " Day of Atonement " . If the Cross and Good Friday are not the permanent and universal " Yom Kippur / Day of Atonement , why are we Catholics ? Christ died for all of humanities sins , not just those of Christians '.

And let’s not forget , Christ was a Jew . Christ’s sacrifice and gift on the Cross was freely given for ALL . While this gift ,like any gift , can either be accepted or rejected , it’s rejection does not negate it’s proffer .

Having said that , I’m suspect some might still take offense .
 
chuckfrmvalyfrg said:
While the good Cardinal can certainly be accused of being , " impolitic " ; I think he is correct , and the truth always matters .Yom Kippur is the Jewish " Day of Atonement " . If the Cross and Good Friday are not the permanent and universal " Yom Kippur / Day of Atonement , why are we Catholics ? Christ died for all of humanities sins , not just those of Christians '.

And let’s not forget , Christ was a Jew . Christ’s sacrifice and gift on the Cross was freely given for ALL . While this gift ,like any gift , can either be accepted or rejected , it’s rejection does not negate it’s proffer .

Having said that , I’m suspect some might still take offense .
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It all really does depend on the audience and the purpose of dialog, doesn’t it?
 
If the Catholic Church is sponsoring the Assisi event, they are doing it in Christ.
 
KathleenGee said:
If the Catholic Church is sponsoring the Assisi event, they are doing it in Christ.
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Except what the Pope said was (according to the New York Times, at least):

"he would travel as a pilgrim to Assisi in October, inviting Christians of other confessions, leaders of other world faiths “and, ideally, all men of good will, to recall the historic gesture sought by my predecessor and to solemnly renew the commitment of the faithful of all religious to live their own religious faith as a service for the cause of peace.”

Which doesn’t seem to imply that people were to come along to be evangelized.
 
Interfaith reunions are ridiculous. And a waste of time.
 
Kaninchen said:
Except what the Pope said was (according to the New York Times, at least):

"he would travel as a pilgrim to Assisi in October, inviting Christians of other confessions, leaders of other world faiths “and, ideally, all men of good will, to recall the historic gesture sought by my predecessor and to solemnly renew the commitment of the faithful of all religious to live their own religious faith as a service for the cause of peace.”

Which doesn’t seem to imply that people were to come along to be evangelized.
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Well, the Catholic Church isn’t really organizing a proselytising party. We evangelize by our actions, words only are used when it becomes absolutely necessary. That is what St. Francis taught. By coming together for peace and the common good of man, we show them what Christianity is all about. And that we can live together without having to force one’s faith on one another. The Apostles approached the Gentiles in the same way and got many converts. Its a slow process, but one that doesn’t promote violence and hatred.
 
There is alot of loaded issues regarding the symbol of the Cross.

But its true meaning is the price paid for our sins on the cross.

The Vatican will have to decide…but prior, there was confusion by the actions of JPII when he paid homage to the beliefs of others at Assisi…so this time, they are calling on all to come together…and it is done in the name of Christ…through the symbol of the cross…

Those Jews need to also forgive and not label all Christianity either by those who misused the symbol of the Cross.
 
Kaninchen said:
It all really does depend on the audience and the purpose of dialog, doesn’t it?
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I don’t think so , and only because you invoked the word , " all " . It does depend on the audience and it does depend on the purpose of , dialogue , but that is " not all " there is involved here . As I said in my earlier post , the truth Always matters . Why engage in dialogue without truth ? How fruitful can that be ? And if someone is this easily offended , what are the reasonable expectations of this dialogue ?

Having said that , I think this Assissi " kerfuffle " ( sp? ) is really a tempest in a tea pot . This didn’t have to be a public cause celebre , but could have been handled through back channels . Someone Chose to make this a public issue , why ?

Sometimes I think Jews forget ( or perhaps deny ) Jesus’s Jewishness , I wonder how much that might play in this misunderstanding ?
 
The whole thing will be fruitless and a disaster, perhaps not on the scale of Assisi I or II but still deeply scandalous. I am surprised that Pope Benedict XVI who as a cardinal declined to attend the other Assisi peace conferences would then organise one of his own.
 
And that is why the scandal of the Cross is to be displayed…
 
chuckfrmvalyfrg said:
I don’t think so , and only because you invoked the word , " all " . It does depend on the audience and it does depend on the purpose of , dialogue , but that is " not all " there is involved here . As I said in my earlier post , the truth Always matters . Why engage in dialogue without truth ? How fruitful can that be ? And if someone is this easily offended , what are the reasonable expectations of this dialogue ?

Having said that , I think this Assissi " kerfuffle " ( sp? ) is really a tempest in a tea pot . This didn’t have to be a public cause celebre , but could have been handled through back channels . Someone Chose to make this a public issue , why ?

Sometimes I think Jews forget ( or perhaps deny ) Jesus’s Jewishness , I wonder how much that might play in this misunderstanding ?
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Hm, I suppose I find it interesting because I’ve been a member of one religious message board or another for far more years than I really like to think about and have reached a point, I suppose, where the ‘evangelizing’ parts of posts have become a bit like the ‘driving to work phenomenon’ (you remember leaving home, you remember arriving at work but the bit between is a bit of a blur).

There was a time, in Rome and the Papal States, when the Jewish population were forced to listen to Christian sermons promoting Jesus and denouncing Judaism (preached in the synagogues), a practice that went on until the mid-19th century. So, I expect that the idea that dialog involves having to listen to Christian lectures has interesting resonances for those concerned.
 
Kaninchen said:
Hm, I suppose I find it interesting because I’ve been a member of one religious message board or another for far more years than I really like to think about and have reached a point, I suppose, where the ‘evangelizing’ parts of posts have become a bit like the ‘driving to work phenomenon’ (you remember leaving home, you remember arriving at work but the bit between is a bit of a blur).
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Well , why does this apply ? Who is " evangelizing " in this thread ?
There was a time, in Rome and the Papal States, when the Jewish population were forced to listen to Christian sermons promoting Jesus and denouncing Judaism (preached in the synagogues), a practice that went on until the mid-19th century. So, I expect that the idea that dialog involves having to listen to Christian lectures has interesting resonances for those concerned.
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Kaninchen , as long as victimhood is the source of your empowerment recovery is the enemy and is actually destructive to your sense of self-identity . You see , EVEN when one is a legitimate " victim " , there is a final stage of recovery where the victim reintegrates back into society , not as a victim but their fully functioning self . But in our society , the grievance industries and the cults of victimhood have a vested interest in maintaining this " perpetual class of victims " to further a political ( and sometimes economic ) end . In some circles , victimhood even confers status .

So when is the statute of limitations up ? Apparently 160 years is not sufficient , so please give me a number ( and I mean that I want a literal , hard number ) . Why do you play the victim card so often ? It’s wearisome .
 
I used to work with a Jewish client who was a prisoner of Dachau and was liberated by the Nazis the day she was scheduled to die, a large woman who carried rocks back and forth.

I took her to a Jewish center, and I really enjoyed being with everyone. But one day I came in, and sat at a table where they were talking about Spain, how Spain really got paid back, and some others…my client looked at me then them, and told them to stop talking like that.

I told my pastor about this and he told me he finds unforgiveness going back hundreds of years another form of extremism.

There were things the Jews did to Christians, writings of maledictions against Christ Himself. I have read them. But they reflect those individuals. I hold those individuals responsible and they are all dead a long time ago. They are in God’s care.
 
chuckfrmvalyfrg said:
Well , why does this apply ? Who is " evangelizing " in this thread ?
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I was merely pondering about in how one deals with ‘evangelizing’. I’m allowed.
Kaninchen , as long as victimhood is the source of your empowerment recovery is the enemy and is actually destructive to your sense of self-identity . You see , EVEN when one is a legitimate " victim " , there is a final stage of recovery where the victim reintegrates back into society , not as a victim but their fully functioning self . But in our society , the grievance industries and the cults of victimhood have a vested interest in maintaining this " perpetual class of victims " to further a political ( and sometimes economic ) end . In some circles , victimhood even confers status .
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As long as ‘my way or the highway’ is the source of your empowerment, recovery is the enemy.
 
There is no other leadership working to bring people of faith together…and this is another argument for having a pope instead of only conciliar jurisdictions.
 
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