Debate over the Cross threatens Jewish participation in Assisi event

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KathleenGee said:
I used to work with a Jewish client who was a prisoner of Dachau and was liberated by the Nazis the day she was scheduled to die, a large woman who carried rocks back and forth.

I took her to a Jewish center, and I really enjoyed being with everyone. But one day I came in, and sat at a table where they were talking about Spain, how Spain really got paid back, and some others…my client looked at me then them, and told them to stop talking like that.

I told my pastor about this and he told me he finds unforgiveness going back hundreds of years another form of extremism.

There were things the Jews did to Christians, writings of maledictions against Christ Himself. I have read them. But they reflect those individuals. I hold those individuals responsible and they are all dead a long time ago. They are in God’s care.
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The Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and have persecuted us, do not please God, and they are adversaries to all men, prohibiting us from speaking to the Gentiles that they may be saved, to fill up their sin always: for the wrath of God has come upon them to the end.’
  • I Thessalonians ii.14-16
It has nothing to do with being “anti-Catholic” or blaming “Catholics” in ways similar to the approach toward “the Jews”

It is merely the certain knowledge that when the events of say Barcelona March 15th 1391 are not learned and understood and rejected you find yourself 600 years latter in Jedwabne Poland July 10, 1941.

The other thing is that there really isn’t this massive body of Jewish religious anti-Christian or anti-Jesus writings comparable to the Christian works against the Jews. The reason for this are two-fold. First, there is only one God and we are all His children. As we see in the story of Jonah, the Gentile is not denied redemption merely because he/she does not yet understand the definition and concept of God. Not only is redemption not reserved for “the Jews” - it is easier for the Gentile than for the Jew to get into the world to come as they have only to follow the seven Noahide commandments. The second reason is that your god Jesus has absolutely no significance or meaning to us other than that certain of his followers have made a habit of persecuting Jews in his name. In the same vein, we also do not have anti-Buddha writings.
 
Kaninchen said:
I was merely pondering about in how one deals with ‘evangelizing’. I’m allowed.
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Of course you are ( allowed ) , but it would be nice if you answered my questions .
" Why does that apply " ?
"Who is evangelizing in this thread " ?
As long as ‘my way or the highway’ is the source of your empowerment, recovery is the enemy.
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Thank you for being so predictable ! Why do you think you get to both ask and answer my questions ? When you ignore my questions , and simply respond any way you like, you are in fact being non-responsive ( and in effect , both asking and answering my questions ). My questions got in the queue first and ergo had primacy of order and you just ignored them and went on your merry way and posted whatever you liked , as though my questions were never asked ( and it wasn’t like my post was burdened with questions ) . This often reveals a totalitarian nature .

Why do you think no one noticed your non-responsiveness ?

So , I am still waiting , when is the statute of limitations up ? Again , I am asking for a number . As I’ve already stated , apparently 160 years is not enough . Or perhaps the reason you did not respond is because you never wish to stop playing the victim card ?

RE: your " my way or the highway " rejoinder , I appreciate your sentiment , but without any supporting evidence or argumentation it lacks persuasive power ( i. e. , it’s fairly thin soup ) . But, perhaps you don’t think you have to offer a rationale or argument ( as I did ) , that at least would be consistent ( but I am NOT asserting this is THE reason , although it would be logical ) .

Oh , I almost forgot , don’t steal someone else’s copy when posting what you think is a snappy rejoinder . It’s not only bad form , it reveals a lack of originality .

PS Just in case you forgot , I am asking for a quantitative answer on the statute of limitations question , not a qualitative one .
 
chuckfrmvalyfrg said:
Of course you are ( allowed ) , but it would be nice if you answered my questions .
" Why does that apply " ?
"Who is evangelizing in this thread " ?
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Hm, where did I say that anybody was doing so?
Thank you for being so predictable ! Why do you think you get to both ask and answer my questions ? When you ignore my questions , and simply respond any way you like, you are in fact being non-responsive ( and in effect , both asking and answering my questions ). My questions got in the queue first and ergo had primacy of order and you just ignored them and went on your merry way and posted whatever you liked , as though my questions were never asked ( and it wasn’t like my post was burdened with questions ) . This often reveals a totalitarian nature .
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Perhaps, if you addressed people in a manner that might suggest that dealing with you is something to be bothered about, you might achieve more?
 
Kaninchen said:
Hm, where did I say that anybody was doing so?
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In the 1st paragraph of your post # 16 .
Perhaps, if you addressed people in a manner that might suggest that dealing with you is something to be bothered about, you might achieve more?
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Well , to answer your question ( while you again refuse to answer mine ) , I have NO control over how you take or interpret anything I post . You possess free will . I can’t make you take offense any more than I can make you angry . YOU CHOOSE to take offense , don’t try to shift responsibility for your choice to me . You choose it , you own it .

Perhaps I should add passive- aggressive to the list ? That’s the list with victim and totalitarian . Believe it or not , but when I made my 1st post in this thread ( post #3 ) you were one of the people I had in mind when I said some might still take offense .
Again , thank you for being so predictable .

Just to be fair ( which you refrain from ) , why should I not think your intransigence in regard to my original question about when the statute of limitations is up is evidence of passive-aggressive behavior ?

It is funny ; in three posts ( by the time this post is complete ) I asked you the same question about your invoking the the victim card , "when is the statute of limitations up " ?
Still , you refuse to answer . In the absence of a response , I will have to fill in the blank myself. I already know that in regard to the issue in Rome you mentioned , 160 years is not sufficient to fulfill the statute of limitations , ergo I assume NO AMOUNT of time will satisfy you . That’s why you refuse to respond , isn’t it ?

Swell , that’s settled . But the inevitable conclusion is that you insist on playing the victim card (name removed by moderator)erpetuity , and everyone should realize that .

I don’t know about Europe , but here in the states , impatience with invoking victimhood (name removed by moderator)erpetuity has reached critical mass .
 
chosen_people said:
The Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and have persecuted us, do not please God, and they are adversaries to all men, prohibiting us from speaking to the Gentiles that they may be saved, to fill up their sin always: for the wrath of God has come upon them to the end.’
  • I Thessalonians ii.14-16
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Just a suggestion , if you are going to make this argument , it might be prudent to not start by invoking a Jew ( Paul , aka Saul of Tarsus , a member of the tribe of Benjamin ) who was infamous for vigorously persecuting 1st century Christians . Just sayin ’ .
It has nothing to do with being “anti-Catholic” or blaming “Catholics” in ways similar to the approach toward “the Jews”
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Actually , I think it does . I don’t object to you doing it ; rather , I object to you’re doing it and thinking we don’t see it for what it is . I don’t mean to imply that this a rampant behavior , however , don’t act like it doesn’t exist . That would be akin to the Main Stream Media in the USA claiming they are not biased in favor of the liberals . I don’t object to the press leaning left , but I do object to their denail of said " lean " .
It is merely the certain knowledge that when the events of say Barcelona March 15th 1391 are not learned and understood and rejected you find yourself 600 years latter in Jedwabne Poland July 10, 1941.
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That’s a valid point , but there is a tendency to beat a dead horse by your side .
The other thing is that there really isn’t this massive body of Jewish religious anti-Christian or anti-Jesus writings comparable to the Christian works against the Jews.
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Well , I guess that comes down to how you define "massive " . But there certainly is a body of anti -Jesus ( and by extension anti-Christian ) writings , especially in the Orthodox Jewish community . If I know about , then certainly you should as well . How familiar are you with that work of anti-Jesus literature that describes "how "Jesus is spending eternity in hell ( and not just the upside down part ) ?

Just to be clear , what I am objecting to is not this genre’s existence , but rather to the Denial that it exists at all !
The second reason is that your god Jesus has absolutely no significance or meaning to us other than that certain of his followers have made a habit of persecuting Jews in his name. In the same vein, we also do not have anti-Buddha writings.
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I think you should bone up on the Christian concept of the Trinity . We believe in one God with three divine persons , Father , Son ( Jesus) and the Holy Spirit ( or the Holy Ghost ) . Perhaps my objection here is simply one of semantics .

Well , Jesus certainy had significance and /or meaning at least to the 1st century and early 2nd century AD Jews .
Let me count the ways :
  1. Many Jews converted to Christianity
  2. Some 1st century AD Jews persecuted the Christians ( see the top of this post )
    3.Early Christianity was considered a " Jewish Sect" by many people of that time and place , why do you think that is
  3. Enough to edit your scripture in the early 2nd century AD to take out some of those pesky proof texts that were being used by those early Christians to demonstrate that Christ was the Messiah
Now , if you are simply stating that contemporary Jews don’t think about Jesus much , if at all , I will stipualte to that .
 
Is this reason #215 why ecumenism never works?

In Christ,
Andrew
 
I’m actually surprised that you had the temerity to impose yourself into this exchange . Apparently you don’t hold yourself to the same standards you demand of others . Considering our previous interaction , what good reason do I have to consider anything you say ? Think about it , I don’t abide double standards . Or your chutzpah .

But to be more generous than you’ve been to me , let’s examine your post . I admire it’s " economy " . It’s an interesting assertion , but does it hold water ? On the surface it appears it might , but where is the explication ? You state a case but you don’t "make "
your case . So far you receive an " Incomplete " .

At least I engaged the object of my post with concrete examples rather than generalizations . At least I made a case and backed it up , I didn’t merely generalize .

Perhaps you feel entitled to abstain from these " technicalities " , so be it .
Intestingly , you made no attempt to actually refute anything I wrote , but perhaps for the purpose of your post you felt that unnecessary .

So far , your post to me is simply an exercise in onanism . But thanks for the " drive by " post . Good day .

PS Don’t you think your invoking of " infinitely " is an example of hyperbole ? Just askin ’ .
 
Since when is the truth a function of consensus ? Make your case . Generalization without concrete examples is useless . And why does several = consensus . How many is several ?

It’s not confirmed UNTIL you explicate . Make your case , which you seem loathe to actually do . Until you prove your point , why should I concede anything ?

How ironic , when I called you out for Your ad hominem and non -responiveness months ago you responded by telling me not to im/em you on this site . I said fine ( to myself ) and have never contacted you in any manner since ( either through im/em or general post ) . I could live with that , but apparently you can’t .

And regarding my alleged " verbosity " ( don’t worry , I’m not getting paid by the word ) , one man’s verbosity is another’s elegant exposition . Besides , look in the mirror , you’re no stranger to long posts . Don’t worry about the splinter in my eye .

Why your double standard ?
You can dish it out but you can’t take it . The hurly- burly seems to be too much for you .

Re: your asociate , she played the victim card and I called her on it . She is so predictable that I even told her that I thought she would object before she even did . There was absolutely nothing objectionable in my original post in that thread , but that didn’t matter .
Playing the victim card continually is self-defeating and I refuse to be complicit in her own self-infantilization .

But again , you engage in another " drive by " post . You have added nothing .

Please , I didn’t engage you , you engaged me . I will not continue this interaction on an unequal basis .

Please , just ignore me as I ignored you until today in order to respond to your posts ( I’ve ignored you for months ) . At least I don’t engage you in the same transparent passive -aggressive manner you do me . I meet you head on . What makes you think you are the only one capable of diagnosis .

If you want to contact me via im/em , feel free . But I will contact you via open post .

PS "Wordy " and "Verbose " in the same sentence is redundant .

PSS I smell a rat here . You did not come here today by accident . This was a little too heavy- handed , and I mean transparently so .
 
Well , of course you are subscribed to this thread , how else would you be posting . Mine should be the 33rd post on this thread . All susequent times are US Eastern Time Zone .

The original post on this thread was made on 8/6 @ 9:39 AM .

There have been 12 different posters on this thread . You did not post until :
  1. 8/9 @ 12:48 PM ( post #26) To me
  2. 8/10 @ 2:42 AM ( post #30) To me
  3. 8/10 @ 4:30 AM ( post #32) To me
So what does this reveal ? This thread has been active for just short of 4 days . You have come relatively late to this party and the sole object of your desire seems to be me , since all three of your posts have been sent to me . You initiated this interaction , not me . I have scrupulously avoided interacting with you for months and you cannot deny that .

Let’s be honest , our very 1st interaction was , contentious ? You employ a double standard in your interactions , so I avoided you . Here you are again , being non -responsive for everyone to see . Unless you engage , I will go my merry way . But at least you are consistent .

And let’s just say I am suspicious of your " benign " explanation for both being here and me being the sole object of your desire . It’s just too convenient . Just to be sure , your desire is not reciprocated .
 
The late songstress was a trainwreck and her own worst enemy . We watched her self -destruct publicly and in slow motion .Perhaps you have something in common with the late singer ?

But , the lyrics you qoute are quite insipid . Logicly , unless you dry the tears , of course they will dry on their own ( it’s not magic ) . She wasn’t Bob Dylan or Johnny Cash !

But may she rest in peace .

PS I posted ( #33) at 5;26 AM and you are not logged on this site but respond at 5:30AM ( #34) . I think I know what you are doing . You’re trying too hard !
 
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