C
christian1
Guest
To Catherina: you said: 970 "Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."513 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514
I know this is only a portion of what you said but I wanted to list this last piece just to hopefully tie it in to the thought I’m about to present. Not that it will be directly linked in every aspect but just for topic sake.
I was glad to learn that I didn’t have to pray to Mary or the saints but I am allowed to pray to God through His son.
I only wish that I wasn’t barred from Heaven for not believing that she was ever virgin, born without sin or assumed into heaven, seeing as these things do not have a direct link to Jesus sacrifice.
If she had been born with sin, you agree that it wouldn’t have affected the sinlessness of Christ and His purpose. Your doctrine on her sinless birth is greatly interpreted with scriptures by way of symbolism not self evidented in scripture as such. It has no real power over what God did with Christ one way or another. I say one way or another, but you declare one way only.
If she had had relations with her husband, you agree that it would not have affected what God had done with Christ one way or another but again you declare one way even though you admit that the scriptures do not declare whether or not she did or didn’t have relations with him. Again, special interpretaion is applied to scriptures in the form of symbolism to support your right to force me into the belief or my right to Heaven is forbidden.
If she had not been assumed into Heaven, it would in no way, you admit, hinder God’s plan of salvation for mankind through His son Jesus. Given there are no scriptures to support that she was assumed except again by interpretaions that fall along the line of “if so and so had been it makes sense that she was” which is fine and good if that is what you feel you need to believe. But to bar the way to Heaven unless this is believed is disastrous.
So here we are faced with dogma that one must believe in order to remain in the Church or become a member of it even though the belief or disbelief of it does not affect the plan of salvation through Jesus Christ.
I was relieved to hear that it was Ok if I only prayed to God through Jesus and that I did not need to pray through Mary or any other saint. But I must believe in the dogma of the Church concerning Mary’s sinless birth, ever virginity and assumption in order to receive salvation, even though you admit that either way it wouldn’t have affected the plan of salvation but yet you have affected it.
This tradition is heretical of the first teachings of Christ. It should never have become dogma, for now, it places itself over the word of God. Is this one of the teachings of the church that should be repented of as indicated in Revelation when Christ admonishes the churches? And commands them to repent of unless He returns and remove them from their place?
But then, if dogma cannot be fallible, how will the church stand if it should change its position? Would the body lose faith in it? Is this the risk that would prevent the churches repentance?
The infallible position the church has placed itself with may become its trap. How can a church repent of dogma and teachings as Revelation indicates they should, while maintaining infallibility?
If it admits wrong, which repentance requires, and changes it’s ways, what will the body think? Will the church be able to repent under these conditions?
And if the church does not, when Christ returns, He will remove them from their place andl fight them with the sword of His mouth.
And all those who follow after the church and its doctrines that are false, will have their lot with those that teach it. So what will the church do? What should a follower do when those they are following have need of repentance and refuse to? Should he continue to follow? Will he become two-fold a child of hell as they are, as Jesus warned to the scribes and pharisees residing over God’s people and guilty of the same sins?
I know this is only a portion of what you said but I wanted to list this last piece just to hopefully tie it in to the thought I’m about to present. Not that it will be directly linked in every aspect but just for topic sake.
I was glad to learn that I didn’t have to pray to Mary or the saints but I am allowed to pray to God through His son.
I only wish that I wasn’t barred from Heaven for not believing that she was ever virgin, born without sin or assumed into heaven, seeing as these things do not have a direct link to Jesus sacrifice.
If she had been born with sin, you agree that it wouldn’t have affected the sinlessness of Christ and His purpose. Your doctrine on her sinless birth is greatly interpreted with scriptures by way of symbolism not self evidented in scripture as such. It has no real power over what God did with Christ one way or another. I say one way or another, but you declare one way only.
If she had had relations with her husband, you agree that it would not have affected what God had done with Christ one way or another but again you declare one way even though you admit that the scriptures do not declare whether or not she did or didn’t have relations with him. Again, special interpretaion is applied to scriptures in the form of symbolism to support your right to force me into the belief or my right to Heaven is forbidden.
If she had not been assumed into Heaven, it would in no way, you admit, hinder God’s plan of salvation for mankind through His son Jesus. Given there are no scriptures to support that she was assumed except again by interpretaions that fall along the line of “if so and so had been it makes sense that she was” which is fine and good if that is what you feel you need to believe. But to bar the way to Heaven unless this is believed is disastrous.
So here we are faced with dogma that one must believe in order to remain in the Church or become a member of it even though the belief or disbelief of it does not affect the plan of salvation through Jesus Christ.
I was relieved to hear that it was Ok if I only prayed to God through Jesus and that I did not need to pray through Mary or any other saint. But I must believe in the dogma of the Church concerning Mary’s sinless birth, ever virginity and assumption in order to receive salvation, even though you admit that either way it wouldn’t have affected the plan of salvation but yet you have affected it.
This tradition is heretical of the first teachings of Christ. It should never have become dogma, for now, it places itself over the word of God. Is this one of the teachings of the church that should be repented of as indicated in Revelation when Christ admonishes the churches? And commands them to repent of unless He returns and remove them from their place?
But then, if dogma cannot be fallible, how will the church stand if it should change its position? Would the body lose faith in it? Is this the risk that would prevent the churches repentance?
The infallible position the church has placed itself with may become its trap. How can a church repent of dogma and teachings as Revelation indicates they should, while maintaining infallibility?
If it admits wrong, which repentance requires, and changes it’s ways, what will the body think? Will the church be able to repent under these conditions?
And if the church does not, when Christ returns, He will remove them from their place andl fight them with the sword of His mouth.
And all those who follow after the church and its doctrines that are false, will have their lot with those that teach it. So what will the church do? What should a follower do when those they are following have need of repentance and refuse to? Should he continue to follow? Will he become two-fold a child of hell as they are, as Jesus warned to the scribes and pharisees residing over God’s people and guilty of the same sins?