December Republican Primary Poll

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You know the thing that amazes me most about the Paul-inistas is their rabid and unswerving support for what many of us think is absolute nuttery. But I must admit, hearing that DENNIS KUCINICH and Paul are of one mind only makes me less inclined to listen to anything Paul has to say. I thought he sounded totally off the wall last night in the debates.

Also please do not assume that if we disagree about “non-intervention vs isolationist” that WE are the stupid party. It just might be that Paul’s non-intervention theories are isolationist and quite frankly IMO very dangerous.

Lisa
I just recently, after watching all the candidates over the past few months, solidified my support for libertarian views. It appears the Republican party is bound to get another RINO into office and all you RINO-inistas are like little baby ducklings, falling in line where you are supposed to.

There is no disagreement on the two terms. I have a clear understanding of what they are/mean and you do not. 🤷
 
I have many libertarian views. I disagree with them completely on abortion and drugs, and almost completely on foreign policy,
 
I think the US should have a critical self interest before we deploy our troops or station them anywhere.
Which is what non-interventionism is. Using the military to protect national interests. Which ironically, is what Ron Paul supports…

Isolationism is completely shutting yourself off from the outside world in all aspects, no trading, nothing.

Which is not what he supports.
 
Thing about me is, I don’t think he is perfect and I do acccept criticism like this. I just think he is the best of the bunch because I believe that the majority of our problems stem from monetary policy and he has been the most consistent on it.
Here, here, and thank you!
 
Which is what non-interventionism is. Using the military to protect national interests. Which ironically, is what Ron Paul supports…

Isolationism is completely shutting yourself off from the outside world in all aspects, no trading, nothing.

Which is not what he supports.
No that is not the way “isolationism” is used. I know of no one who mistakes isolating our military efforts to domestic defense only and shutting off all communication, trade, interaction with other countries.

Ron Paul is even opposed to sanctions against Iran. Even if you don’t think there should be military action, does not mean we simply let Iran do as they wish. That is isolationism taken to extreme. I agree that military action is a last resort. That doesn’t mean we can’t use pressure economically or through the financial system to shut down their activities.

He sounds like a nut when he says “the reason they come here to kill us is because we are bombing them.” Is he thinking of the Vietnam War? WWII? Huh? We weren’t bombing countries when the first World Trade Center attack occurred, nor were we bombing countries when 9/11 occurred. I love the way he blames the US for the maniacal actions of Islamic terrorists. If terrorism was a result of invasions and bombings by the US, why didn’t the Islamists decide to terrorize Russia for invading and occupying Afghanisan? Or pre 9/11 Iraq? After all, Saddam did invade Kuwait. But I guess that wouldn’t work with Paul’s “It’s all our fault” theories about terrorism.

The man is a nut and why he engenders such loyalty amazes me. I think he has some good ideas but they are negated by his wild theories that seem to have no basis in reality.

Lisa
 
The man is a nut and why he engenders such loyalty amazes me. I think he has some good ideas but they are negated by his wild theories that seem to have no basis in reality.

Lisa
I think he engenders such loyalty because he has a coherent philosophy that he consistently and passionately promotes. The other candidates have sound bytes, polling data, and have probably coordinated their clothing style to match the latest marketing strategies. It’s like comparing a human being to a set of mannequins.

That said, if one sane man is standing on a stage surrounded by insanity, he may very well look like the odd man out. A voice crying out in the wilderness, as it were. You disagree with him, and you have every right to. But I find it attractive when someone is actually passionate about peace, even to the point of being booed, while everyone else is either pandering to fear or looking to score a talking point.
 
Not really. Bbarrick’s last response was “can you blame him”?

I’ve seen every excuse offered, except for why, if it is done above board, it isn’t done at the legislative phase. I have family in state poltics, so I’m aware how the process works (very similar to the federal level).

There is absolutely NO difference between federal money in an appropriations or omnibus bill being earmarked for the Gravina Island Bridge, and what Paul does.

Paul states they shouldn’t take it in the first place, and he’s just asking it back. Fine and dandy. He’s voted against budgets in the past as a matter of principal, he should refuse earmarking on the same premise.

Until then, he’s just another career politician greasing the palm of his constituency to get re-elected.
So we should be fine with this money going to the executive?
 
He sounds like a nut when he says “the reason they come here to kill us is because we are bombing them.” Is he thinking of the Vietnam War? WWII? Huh? We weren’t bombing countries when the first World Trade Center attack occurred, nor were we bombing countries when 9/11 occurred. I love the way he blames the US for the maniacal actions of Islamic terrorists. If terrorism was a result of invasions and bombings by the US, why didn’t the Islamists decide to terrorize Russia for invading and occupying Afghanisan? Or pre 9/11 Iraq? After all, Saddam did invade Kuwait. But I guess that wouldn’t work with Paul’s “It’s all our fault” theories about terrorism.
Yeah, we never did anything to the Middle East before 9/11. That attack was completely unprovoked. :rolleyes:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_the_September_11_attacks

Terrorist attacks in Russia:

rt.com/politics/press/rossijskaya-gazeta/al-qaeda-russia-bin-laden/en/

Good luck finding foreign terrorist attacks in Sweden and Switzerland, though.
 
Yeah, we never did anything to the Middle East before 9/11. That attack was completely unprovoked. :rolleyes:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_the_September_11_attacks

Terrorist attacks in Russia:

rt.com/politics/press/rossijskaya-gazeta/al-qaeda-russia-bin-laden/en/

Good luck finding foreign terrorist attacks in Sweden and Switzerland, though.
Please read the post and respond to what I said. Paul claims the terrorists come here to attack us because we ARE bombing them. Bombing them? As I said, he is channelling the Vietnam War or WWII. The US is clearly the main target for the Islamists although certainly other countries are ‘guilty’ of interfering in Middle East politics.

Any comment about Paul’s belief we should not even use sanctions to thwart Iran’s plans for a nuke?

The Islamists from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen have not attacked MOSCOW or any other military installation in Russia. The Russians were guilty of bombing and terrorizing the people of Afghanistan. There are still untold number of unexploded ordinance and mines in Afghanistan. Apparently revenge is only for the US. This sounds so Obama-ish…that it’s our fault they came to attack us. You really believe this?

Oh btw as Michael Medved pointed out, Sweden and Switzerland didn’t even oppose the Nazis. I guess you think that kind of philosophy is best. I don’t.

Lisa
 
Yeah, we never did anything to the Middle East before 9/11. That attack was completely unprovoked. :rolleyes:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_the_September_11_attacks

Terrorist attacks in Russia:

rt.com/politics/press/rossijskaya-gazeta/al-qaeda-russia-bin-laden/en/

Good luck finding foreign terrorist attacks in Sweden and Switzerland, though.
I’m absolutely speechless.
In the 1998 fatwa, Al-Qaeda wrote “for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.”
So, the US should be taking its foreign policy cues from a fringe Islamist group? Even if the base were closed, al Qaeda would have been upset for our economic support (READ: FREE TRADE) with the House of Saud. The Sauds are part of the “not Islamic enough for my taste” world, according to al Qaeda.

Next, we’ll have to cut economic ties to the UAE, Bahrain and Jordan because they don’t have public beheadings for rape.

Yes, Sweden is absolutely safe.

No, wait, they published OFFENSIVE CARTOONS…

adnkronos.com/IGN/Aki/English/Security/Sweden-Stockholm-bomber-acted-on-Al-Qaedas-orders_311395598198.html

Are you and Paul also against unsavory cartoons, in the effort to appease fringe Islamist groups, and in the name of world peace?

“They wouldn’t be attacking us here if we weren’t drawing pictures of them!”
 
No that is not the way “isolationism” is used. I know of no one who mistakes isolating our military efforts to domestic defense only and shutting off all communication, trade, interaction with other countries.
Isolationism is the policy or doctrine of isolating one’s country from the affairs of other nations by declining to enter into alliances, foreign economic commitments, international agreements, etc., seeking to devote the entire efforts of one’s country to its own advancement and remain at peace by avoiding foreign entanglements and responsibilities.
Ron Paul is even opposed to sanctions against Iran. Even if you don’t think there should be military action, does not mean we simply let Iran do as they wish. That is isolationism taken to extreme. I agree that military action is a last resort. That doesn’t mean we can’t use pressure economically or through the financial system to shut down their activities.
Sanctions can backfire and do more harm than good.

usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-11-17/iran-nuclear-sanctions-backfire/51275666/1?csp=34news&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+usatoday-NewsTopStories+%28News±+Top+Stories%29

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vNRZjh8KHGo#!
He sounds like a nut when he says “the reason they come here to kill us is because we are bombing them.” Is he thinking of the Vietnam War? WWII? Huh? We weren’t bombing countries when the first World Trade Center attack occurred, nor were we bombing countries when 9/11 occurred. I love the way he blames the US for the maniacal actions of Islamic terrorists. If terrorism was a result of invasions and bombings by the US, why didn’t the Islamists decide to terrorize Russia for invading and occupying Afghanisan? Or pre 9/11 Iraq? After all, Saddam did invade Kuwait. But I guess that wouldn’t work with Paul’s “It’s all our fault” theories about terrorism.
He’s never said it’s our fault.
The man is a nut and why he engenders such loyalty amazes me. I think he has some good ideas but they are negated by his wild theories that seem to have no basis in reality.
Often times I try to look at unintended consequences in issues. It’s the biggest fault liberals have, it’s impossible for them to look at a situation with a very broad view of what will happen, what may happen and what you want to avoid from happening. It seems conservatives are generally good at what will happen and what may happen but it’s hard for them to see what they want to avoid. Liberals, the only thing they see is what they want to happen, beyond that nothing else matters.

Dr. Paul predicted the housing bubble long before it ever happened. There is a quote, and CNN even had him on reading the quote back to him after it busted. The sanctions on Iran, may or may not lead to war. He predicts they will, I say we listen to him. Everyone else considers him a nut.

Bombs away…
 
Sanctions can backfire and do more harm than good.

usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-11-17/iran-nuclear-sanctions-backfire/51275666/1?csp=34news&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+usatoday-NewsTopStories+%28News±+Top+Stories%29

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vNRZjh8KHGo#!

He’s never said it’s our fault.

Often times I try to look at unintended consequences in issues. It’s the biggest fault liberals have, it’s impossible for them to look at a situation with a very broad view of what will happen, what may happen and what you want to avoid from happening. It seems conservatives are generally good at what will happen and what may happen but it’s hard for them to see what they want to avoid. Liberals, the only thing they see is what they want to happen, beyond that nothing else matters.

Dr. Paul predicted the housing bubble long before it ever happened. There is a quote, and CNN even had him on reading the quote back to him after it busted. The sanctions on Iran, may or may not lead to war. He predicts they will, I say we listen to him. Everyone else considers him a nut.

Bombs away…
Your “isolationist” definition did not include no communications or trade. Paul’s version of ‘non-intervention’ is another’s version of “isolationism.”

Paul said they attack us because we ARE bombing them. He sounds like a loon. We are not bombing “them.” Bin Laden was a Saudi as were a number of the 9/11 hijackers. When did we bomb Saudi Arabia? Oh and some were Egyptian. How many bombs have we dropped on Cairo? Always thought of those two countries (until the Arab Sping) as being relatively friendly to the US.

Clearly “they” are not attacking us as a retaliation for bombs. They may have the irrational belief that we have violated their holy land by setting foot in Saudi Arabia but why do the rantings of Islamic loons determine our foreign policy.

MANY predicted the housing bubble bursting. No one listened to them either. Many books on the subject so don’t act like Mr Paul is Nostradamus. Oh and speaking of, how much did Rep Paul do to rein in Fanny and Freddy? He might have talked about it but again, he’s good at talk, not so good at getting things done.

Lisa
 
Your “isolationist” definition did not include no communications or trade. Paul’s version of ‘non-intervention’ is another’s version of “isolationism.”

Paul said they attack us because we ARE bombing them. He sounds like a loon. We are not bombing “them.” Bin Laden was a Saudi as were a number of the 9/11 hijackers. When did we bomb Saudi Arabia? Oh and some were Egyptian. How many bombs have we dropped on Cairo? Always thought of those two countries (until the Arab Sping) as being relatively friendly to the US.

Clearly “they” are not attacking us as a retaliation for bombs. They may have the irrational belief that we have violated their holy land by setting foot in Saudi Arabia but why do the rantings of Islamic loons determine our foreign policy.

MANY predicted the housing bubble bursting. No one listened to them either. Many books on the subject so don’t act like Mr Paul is Nostradamus. Oh and speaking of, how much did Rep Paul do to rein in Fanny and Freddy? He might have talked about it but again, he’s good at talk, not so good at getting things done.

Lisa
Please provide a direct quote.
 
Regarding what? There are several points above. Would you respond to the points before demanding I do research for you? I don’t know what area you dispute?
Lisa
Paul said they attack us because we ARE bombing them.
My intentions are not to necessarily dispute what you say, but to get the full context.
 
My intentions are not to necessarily dispute what you say, but to get the full context.
Heard him say it several times, recently. Maybe a quote from a previous debate or speech in response to a question about why Islamists are so focused on the United Sates.

“They are coming here to attack us because we are bombing them, we are bombing them.”

It struck me as sounding quite irrational.

Lisa
 
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