Decline and Fall of the American Woman

[chevalier]

I think ya’ll just proved my point! A man DOES indeed want scantily clad women bouncing all around him.

Objection. On my most indifferent day, I don’t care. Sometimes I’m disgusted. At other times I’ll be angry with the exploitation of ignorant teens. I don’t want scantily clad (for a sexual purpose or out of ignorantly following a dissolute fashion pattern) and I don’t need more than one.

Where I come from, they cheerleaders just dance, nothing athletic, and when they are done with that the jump up and down as hard and fast as they can to shake their stuff, then they throw tshirts into the audience.

What the…? I mean, how so? Do they actually remove t-shirts and remain in underwear? Whoever should consider that Christian has a serious problem. Shaking stuff is already a problem (purposeful sexual stimulation is reserved for marriage), but partial strip-tease is just a blatant one.

I do NOT see that as some modest innocent athletic activity. Sorry!

Yep, neither do I.

 

[Margaret33]

Teen girls began wearing thongs to school and started sleeping around from age of 14. …

And just who were they sleeping with?

Kathy

and how did you know they were wearing thongs to school?

 

[SeekerJen]

and how did you know they were wearing thongs to school?

When the jeans ride so low that the thong back sticks up above the jeans’ wasteband, it’s pretty hard to miss.

I have no idea why showing one’s underwear moved from an accidental and embarrassing slip-up to “cute and sexy”. Hello, showing your bra straps or thong straps is trashy.

 

[SeekerJen]

Oops, where did Margaret’s post go?

 

[chevalier]

I have no idea why showing one’s underwear moved from an accidental and embarrassing slip-up to “cute and sexy”. Hello, showing your bra straps or thong straps is trashy.

Especially thong straps. I suppose someone could find an accidentally sliding bra strap erotic and in some way cute, rather than animalistically sexual (and “ooops” plus correction is certainly nothing to think about). Depends on the girl and the situation. Intentional exposure is trashy, yup. I always tell people they can wear belts, it’s that simple. Underwear is not for public viewing, period. Neither are the pajama-like bedroomy shorts or whatever such vestments. I skip girls who dress like that. This increases the likelihood of my dying without offspring, but who cares with such an alternative.

 

[JimG]

I have seen high school (and college, of course) cheer squads who are very athletic and somewhat gymnastic. One of my college roommates was a cheer coach at a nearby high school. I went to a game with her to see her girls, and was extremely impressed with their talent- pyramids, gymnastics, well-coordinated (not raunchy) dance routines. Done like that, it’s as much a sport as the football on the field behind them.

My point exactly. I know a girl who excelled in cheerleading all during high school, but declined to try out for the college squad because if accepted, it would have required daily practices taking up so much time she would be unable to keep up with classes.

As for professional sports teams, that’s another matter entirely. Professional sports teams need cheerleaders for the same reason that Sports Illustrated ‘needs’ a swimsuit edition.

Of course, in my day, our high school cheerleaders wore culottes. Fashions change, and it seems to me at least, that trying to tell women what to wear is a losing proposition.

 

[sanctamaria17]

I found this article very interesting. I find it sad that many women are exploited or choose to exploit themselves and I agree, we need to be ladies, because that raises the standard for the guys.

I consider myself a feminist, but not a pro-choice, pro-contraception, men-are-evil feminist. I am grateful that I live in a country where I can vote, where I can be educated, and where I can choose to live my own life. I intend to go on to medical school and be a pro-life, NFP doctor and I also want to get married and have children. And no, I will not shove my kids in daycare or give them Mickey D’s every night for dinner. I will be the best mother and wife I can be and the best doctor I can be, since I feel that these are my callings.

I’ve been lucky to know some men who are true gentlemen. My father has always made it a point to set a good example of what a man should be like. He hates it when men curse around women, opens doors for women and always makes it a point to cherish my mother. My boyfriend treats me like a lady and my guy friends treat women with nothing but respect. I try to be a lady by dressing modestly, keeping the cursing and dirty jokes (bad habits of mine ) down to a minimum, and keeping the Blessed Mother as my model. I will live my life being the best woman of God that I know I can be.

 

[ohiocatholic07]

I wear a short skirt or a low cut top that is HIS sin and HIS problem.

Hopefully, your mother doesn’t feel the same way.

My mother works 40+ hours a week as a headteacher

 

[chevalier]

Of course, in my day, our high school cheerleaders wore culottes. Fashions change, and it seems to me at least, that trying to tell women what to wear is a losing proposition.

Someone has to do that. If not mothers and/or teachers, if those aren’t listened to, then the men who interact with them. In various ways. One man will call them whores and treat like such, another will start preaching. Personally, I’m not of the mind to shut up when bad things are going on, so here am I talking. Fashions make no excuse for sexual flaunting.

 

[JimG]

Someone has to do that. If not mothers and/or teachers, if those aren’t listened to, then the men who interact with them. In various ways. One man will call them whores and treat like such, another will start preaching. Personally, I’m not of the mind to shut up when bad things are going on, so here am I talking. Fashions make no excuse for sexual flaunting.

Yes, their fathers and mothers should be the ones to do this. And I have no problem with school dress codes. If they are willing to listen to you, that’s good.

 

[rayne89]

I recently reconnected with a friend I’ve known since grade school but we lost touch during our highschool years when she left to go to a private school. She knows a lot of the kids we grew up with and what she related to me shocked me. Between that and another friend I met up with last year whom I also grew up with I am just stunned at what has happened to my classmates.

We grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood most of my graduating class went off to college.We are 35 years old now. Most are not married, either never married or divorced. Most do not have children. Many lived with or are living with a boyfriend/girlfriend.

I honestly believe birthcontrol (and abortion) has completely screwed over the women of my generation. Even if you didn’t start having sex in highschool by the time you were in college it is automatically assumed that you would. Adults in serious relationships (and even not so serious relationships) have sex. I mean it’s everywhere. Look at the media - does any tv program show an adult couple waiting until marriage to have sex?

Birthcontrol has given guys the freedom to have sex without a commitment and made it harder for women to say no. My friend lived with a guy for a year and a half. Planned the wedding. Had the rings, the dress, the hall and then he comes to her and says he doesn’t want to get married “he likes his life the way it is”. Of course he does, he’s got a woman to cook, clean and have sex without making a permanent commitment.

Another classmate dated her boyfriend for 11 years before marriage -and lived with him part of that time. She just got married a year and a half ago and they have no children as of yet. She’s 35 years old. They is no way this guy would have waited 11 years to commit to her had she not been sleeping with him.

I married right out of highschool. I was the one looked at as making the wrong choice. Didn’t turn out to be so wrong after all. My heart breaks for these women. My friend is 35 and single. More than anything she wants to be a mom and have a family. When she got pregnant in college her family convinced her that the wise thing to do would be to abort the child.That having a child at 20 would keep her from acheiving her goals. Now she grieves the loss of that child and the children she may never have. Yeah sexual freedom is just so liberating.

 

[Jay74]

I recently reconnected with a friend I’ve known since grade school but we lost touch during our highschool years when she left to go to a private school. She knows a lot of the kids we grew up with and what she related to me shocked me. Between that and another friend I met up with last year whom I also grew up with I am just stunned at what has happened to my classmates.

We grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood most of my graduating class went off to college.We are 35 years old now. Most are not married, either never married or divorced. Most do not have children. Many lived with or are living with a boyfriend/girlfriend.

I honestly believe birthcontrol (and abortion) has completely screwed over the women of my generation. Even if you didn’t start having sex in highschool by the time you were in college it is automatically assumed that you would. Adults in serious relationships (and even not so serious relationships) have sex. I mean it’s everywhere. Look at the media - does any tv program show an adult couple waiting until marriage to have sex?

Birthcontrol has given guys the freedom to have sex without a commitment and made it harder for women to say no. My friend lived with a guy for a year and a half. Planned the wedding. Had the rings, the dress, the hall and then he comes to her and says he doesn’t want to get married “he likes his life the way it is”. Of course he does, he’s got a woman to cook, clean and have sex without making a permanent commitment.

Another classmate dated her boyfriend for 11 years before marriage -and lived with him part of that time. She just got married a year and a half ago and they have no children as of yet. She’s 35 years old. They is no way this guy would have waited 11 years to commit to her had she not been sleeping with him.

I married right out of highschool. I was the one looked at as making the wrong choice. Didn’t turn out to be so wrong after all. My heart breaks for these women. My friend is 35 and single. More than anything she wants to be a mom and have a family. When she got pregnant in college her family convinced her that the wise thing to do would be to abort the child.That having a child at 20 would keep her from acheiving her goals. Now she grieves the loss of that child and the children she may never have. Yeah sexual freedom is just so liberating.

I’ve long believed that the biggest beneficiaries of feminism are predatory men. The biggest losers have been women, as well as the men who genuinely want to commit to one.

In my marriage, it’s been somewhat of a problem at times that she has flashbacks of her bedroom with her ex husband, and I wish I could erase that from both our brains. I can’t imagine how damaging it would be to be married to someone who had over a dozen partners to flashback to. When schools educate about sexual “freedom” they never seem to mention freedom from disease or flashbacks.

God bless.

 

[Bobby_Jim]

…And in the absence of marriage, the adverse consequences generally fall upon women. One result has been the feminization of poverty.

This is a very good point that I think is underappreciated. We think of feminism as successful upper-middle class white women having powerful careers, wearing nice suits to work where they go to meetings and discuss Powerpoint slides about synergizing values of key stakeholders, while the kids are in the $100/day daycare and dad is off negotiating important business deals and maximizing shareholder value. But the reality for a lot of women is living in public housing or a trailer with the kids, dad(s) in jail or skipped town to avoid paying the child support, while mom needs to cook, clean, get the kids off to school, take a 45-minute bus ride to work for minimum wage at the Burger Shack, and have no grocery store in your neighborhood so you feed the kids on KFC and potato chips and try to decide whether to pay the electric bill or buy your kid’s allergy meds which cost $150 because you don’t have insurance, and the kid’s allergies are getting worse from the roach droppings in your crummy place… and as a “solution” the enlightened among us propose that abortion needs to be available for the poor and downtrodden, until such time as our nation becomes more compassionate and provides a helping hand. In which case, again, guess who bears the physical & emotional consequences? Hint, it’s not dad…

 

[tnbella7]

what excactly do people here class as vulgar??? I wear an assortment of clothes perhaps my most revealing the stuff i wear on a girls night out is either a ra-ra skirt like a longer length cheerleading skirt - about 3inches above my knee (the shortest skirt i own) or a cross my heart top which shows cleavage? Is that classed by you as vulgar? An LBD that has a ruffle neck just above the breasts but which ends 2/3ins above the knee? A bikini at the beach?? No-one has ever commented on my attire as being vulgar but I am wondering if you ladies would?? What standards do you set yourself? And why?

I think it comes down to what is appropriate for the situation. Like you said, you wore a shorter skirt out with your girlfriends, but you certainly wouldn’t wear it to mass. (I’m assuming here, because you sound like a sensible person. ) I wear a fitted t-shirt, but not the pushup bra with it. I think a tasteful bikini that covers well (not a thong) and use a coverup while walking around the pool. I wouldn’t sport cleavage at the office (or shorter skirts), because it is not appropriate in a business situation. I think it sends the wrong message. While I have the right to, I choose not to. (In my office experiences, those women who put it out there were viewed as more “fluff” than serious.) It doesn’t mean you can’t dress feminine. You’re a woman, so whatever you put on will be feminine. From your makeup to your shoes, your femininity shows. It comes down to how much you want to show.

 

[Katie1723]

…Another classmate dated her boyfriend for 11 years before marriage -and lived with him part of that time. She just got married a year and a half ago and they have no children as of yet. She’s 35 years old. They is no way this guy would have waited 11 years to commit to her had she not been sleeping with him…

I think we need to stay out of other peoples bedrooms and worry about what goes on in our own.

Kathy

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

I think we need to stay out of other peoples bedrooms and worry about what goes on in our own.

Kathy

You missed the point of her post. She was relating how “feminism” (in the negative) has skewed our goals and desires as women and ultimately has lead less happiness and less freedom.

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It’s a classic "why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free?"

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Malia

 

[Katie1723]

Unless she was in the bedroom with them, how would she know what their sex life consisted of? Grant it, 11 years is a long time to “wait” but did you ever stop to think not all relationships are about sex?

Kathy

 

[JimG]

Unless she was in the bedroom with them, how would she know what their sex life consisted of? Grant it, 11 years is a long time to “wait” but did you ever stop to think not all relationships are about sex?

Kathy

It’s not all about sex. For many women, it’s just about having a man in their life. But I am constantly amazed what women will put up with to accomplish that goal. Eleven years of no commitment seems like a big price, but it’s not that unusual nowadays.

 

[Katie1723]

It’s not all about sex. For many women, it’s just about having a man in their life. But I am constantly amazed what women will put up with to accomplish that goal. Eleven years of no commitment seems like a big price, but it’s not that unusual nowadays.

So then, you think it’s not possible for two people to have a loving relationship without sex being the primary focus?

Kathy

 

[JimG]

So then, you think it’s not possible for two people to have a loving relationship without sex being the primary focus?

Kathy

For married couples, it’s always a center of focus, but it need not be, perhaps should not be, the primary focus. Actually I might rephrae that to say that conjugal love is a primary focus for married couples, but conjugal love is not focused solely and always on sex. If your partner is not cherished, sex can be a poor substitute.