Decline gift etiquette

[Xantippe]

Even a gift card to a T-shirt shop is a little less “personal” than a piece of clothing hand-picked out by your admirer. And again–pet sitters and house sitters are often doing it for married couples or families. Getting a T-shirt from a couple is a different matter.

Ah, but the local t-shirt shop doesn’t carry t-shirts that say “Waikiki” or “Las Vegas” or “Yosemite” or “Alcatraz.” For the vacation souvenir buyers, it’s important to have an item bought in the particular area.

 

[Anglewannabe]

Quite the opposite, we as a family, have always highly regarded the giver and never felt anything was amiss. However, at best, I know my husband’s behavior will change towards him, at worst my husband will threaten him never to come near our daughter and/or never allow her to ever be in his presence even if it’s in a group setting.

And this is what baffles me to no end. If this is someone you highly respected, why on earth would something as potentially innocent as buying your daughter a top make your husband so mad?

 

[AbideWithMe]

I guess there’s just not enough information. It could be either:

1. clueless
2. reasonable (given extenuating circumstances)

or

1. a creepy grooming gift meant to weaken the teenage daughter’s ability to rebuff inappropriate advances

We can’t say which it is, but it sounds like the OP’s husband would automatically view it as #3.

Any answer needs to be one that he can live with, too.

I agree, but—and maybe I’m too naive myself—I would think if it’s #3 (a grooming attempt) then he wouldn’t have given her something her mother will surely know about.

 

[Xantippe]

Yes, but I don’t see where this comes even close to a “diamond tennis bracelet from an older admirer” type of gift.

Well, any gift that the daughter couldn’t afford herself is on that continuum, even if it’s just a $5 Starbucks confection. It’s all relative to the recipient’s resources. It sounds like these clothing gifts are well outside the recipient and her family’s normal spending zone.

(I need to remember to tell my girls when they’re bigger not to accept anything from an admirer or boyfriend that they could not easily buy themselves–even if it’s just a nice dinner. Sticking to that rule helps keep things from getting weird. If a guy wants to give a bigger gift, he can propose.)

 

[AbideWithMe]

And this is what baffles me to no end. If this is someone you highly respected, why on earth would something as potentially innocent as buying your daughter a top make your husband so mad?

I was just talking to a policeman neighbor* recently, who told me his job has made him think the worst of human nature and human decency.

*The OP said her husband was formerly in a military police force.

 

[Allegra]

I agree, but—and maybe I’m too naive myself—I would think if it’s #3 (a grooming attempt) then he wouldn’t have given her something her mother will surely know about.

Not always. A lot of times, groomers are trying to get in good with the parents too, in order to win their trust.

 

[Xantippe]

I was just talking to a policeman neighbor* recently, who told me his job has made him think the worst of human nature and human decency.

*The OP said her husband was formerly in a military police force.

Right.

One of the more vigilant daddies from back home was a former Coast Guard guy–same deal.

 

[Xantippe]

Not always. A lot of times, groomers are trying to get in good with the parents too, in order to win their trust.

Good point.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Well, any gift that the daughter couldn’t afford herself is on that continuum, even if it’s just a $5 Starbucks confection. It’s all relative to the recipient’s resources. It sounds like these clothing gifts are well outside the recipient and her family’s normal spending zone.

(I need to remember to tell my girls when they’re bigger not to accept anything from an admirer or boyfriend that they could not easily buy themselves–even if it’s just a nice dinner. Sticking to that rule helps keep things from getting weird. If a guy wants to give a bigger gift, he can propose.)

Okay, but I was trying to point out that this was some sort of thank you gift in repayment, not a straightforward gift. Petsitters, house sitters, snow shovelers, lawn services (I’m just guessing as to what the service was); all these services command pretty high prices when done by adults. Maybe he didn’t want to take advantage of her age by not repaying her well in some form.

I agree that he should have been more careful to consider any ways things could be misconstrued, though. But male ingenues exist.

 

[Xantippe]

Okay, but I was trying to point out that this was some sort of thank you gift in repayment, not a straightforward gift. Petsitters, house sitters, snow shovelers, lawn services (I’m just guessing as to what the service was); all these services command pretty high prices when done by adults. Maybe he didn’t want to take advantage of her being age by not repaying her well in such some form.

I agree that he should have been more careful to consider any ways things could be misconstrued, though. But male ingenues exist.

The OP can talk to her daughter and figure out all of that.

If he is a big social doofus, he’s going to get himself into trouble sooner or later.

But at the same time, there are apparently a number of predatory people who sail under the “socially awkward” flag when doing bad stuff.

 

[AbideWithMe]

The OP can talk to her daughter and figure out all of that.

If he is a big social doofus, he’s going to get himself into trouble sooner or later.

But at the same time, there are apparently a number of predatory people who sail under the “socially awkward” flag when doing bad stuff.

Yes, well, though I’m not socially awkward, I do tend to be naive myself, so I’m hoping we can, as you said, let the OP and her daughter figure things out without weighting the scale of judgment for them by piling on public opinions tending towards thinking there has to be a sexualized gift-giving motive here.

Sometimes socially awkward people are that way, in the eyes of the rest of society, because they’re particularly innocent in motive, so they just don’t realize how things look to other people. I’m thinking of Dostoevsky’s The Idiot.

 

[EasterJoy]

I agree accepting money is better. I’m just concerned that the giver, who appears innocent but naive, should not be shamed in any way without evidence that his real intentions were bad. The OP can keep both goals in mind, of protecting her daughter’s reputation and not shaming an innocently naive person.

We have no idea if the giver is innocent or not. Maybe he is, may he’s anything but.

If he is still that naive at this juncture in his career–not impossible, by any means!–he needs to be brought up short before he does something that really sinks his career. This was an objectively unprofessional gift to give to a young underling. It is not just a matter of her dad not liking it, then. He needs to avoid repeating this with anyone. If he were my brother and as innocent as the day is long, I’d say the same thing. If he is a widow whose wife used to do this kind of thing, he needs to realize this is another way his life and situation changed when he lost her.

Keep that in mind, though, that real sexual predators will also claim innocence when they get caught crossing a line. Those who report on their most-tried-and-true strategies later (after being caught) will readily admit to this. That is why it is never appropriate.

That is also why it is important to keep records and to be ready to come forward with evidence, if necessary. Predators are opportunists, and protection of their would-be victims requires letting them know when opportunities to offend are being denied to them.

 

[Xantippe]

We have no idea if the giver is innocent or not. Maybe he is, may he’s anything but.

If he is still that naive at this juncture in his career–not impossible, by any means!–he needs to be brought up short before he does something that really sinks his career. This was an objectively unprofessional gift to give to a young underling. It is not just a matter of her dad not liking it, then. He needs to avoid repeating this with anyone. If he were my brother and as innocent as the day is long, I’d say the same thing. If he is a widow whose wife used to do this kind of thing, he needs to realize this is another way his life and situation changed when he lost her.

**Keep that in mind, though, that real sexual predators will also claim innocence when they get caught crossing a line. **Those who report on their most-tried-and-true strategies later (after being caught) will readily admit to this. That is why it is never appropriate.

That is also why it is important to keep records and to be ready to come forward with evidence, if necessary. Predators are opportunists, and protection of their would-be victims requires letting them know when opportunities to offend are being denied to them.

Right.

Somewhat unrelated (but not that unrelated)–a dear friend of my husband was an older professor who was brilliant at his job but loved telling off-color stories. He wasn’t a creeper trying to push boundaries–he just loved the jokes. Unfortunately, late in life, he moved to a more conservative state and kept on keeping on. Within a few years, he was accused of sexual harassment and forced to retire.

I will swear on a stack of Bibles that he was innocent of the charges. But unfortunately, when you engage in behavior that is identical to that of predators, people will assume that you are one, too.

 

[LongingSoul]

The tops, in themselves, are not inappropriate. It’s the giving of clothing that doesn’t sit right.

Without going into exact detail, the “relationship” is strictly of a person in high authority, whom we have the utmost respect for, with a person who is beneath that authority.

Not wanting to assume dark intentions, I feel obligated to return the gift, even though the intention may be pure. Afraid that a line may have or may be crossed in the future, but at the same time apprehension in possibly offending the giver by declining.

Looking to return it with a note saying thought was appreciated but that teenager cannot accept the gift (which is of a luxury brand we would never have purchased).

Peace.

+JMJ+

I’m just trying to think of my husband giving one of his younger female subordinates at work, such a personal gift as clothing. I don’t feel comfortable with that at all. In fact I’m thinking of any unrelated male giving me the gift of a top I think I’d cross my arms feeling like he was imagining me in the top.

I think the fact that you feel uncomfortable about it is significant. Did your daughter think it at least ‘odd’ also?

I would want to do something to register that sense of discomfort to him to nip anything in the bud. It may seem paranoid but the fact is that ‘groomers’ always start off by just crossing the line to the point where a young person or a parent is just unsure enough to let it go.

It’d be a good lesson for your daughter to take charge of her safety in a calm way by giving back the gift in a discreet bag and saying something like ‘I don’t feel comfortable accepting this but thankyou for the thought’… or some such thing. If he isn’t a ‘groomer’ then he won’t be offended by something like that.

 

[Sunbreak]

I think the poster needs to discuss this with her husband even if he gets angry about it. Won’t he notice the new tops at some point? I think it’s inappropriate for an older man to be giving younger females gifts of clothing. For one thing, how does he know what size top she wears? It seems creepy to me. The parents should return the clothing and just say they can’t allow their daughter to accept the gift.

 

[jmj777]

I’ve already told her not to wear the shirts, but I haven’t told her that I would be returning them back to him. She’s not old enough to return them herself and in her mind she doesn’t quite understand the seriousness of it all.

Unsure how to return them as I don’t want to do it in front of people, but don’t want to do it in private either. Thinking of returning it by mail, but then I will see in person in the interim and don’t know how to act or what to say.

Peace,

+JMJ+

 

[Bonnie]

Unsure how to return them as I don’t want to do it in front of people, but don’t want to do it in private either. Thinking of returning it by mail, but then I will see in person in the interim and don’t know how to act or what to say.

If you put them in a box or bag, no one will know what they are. Where ever you will see this person, surely you will be able to ask to speak to him privately. Even if it’s a corner of the room.

 

[Xantippe]

If you put them in a box or bag, no one will know what they are. Where ever you will see this person, surely you will be able to ask to speak to him privately. Even if it’s a corner of the room.

Right.

 

[EasterJoy]

Right.

Somewhat unrelated (but not that unrelated)–a dear friend of my husband was an older professor who was brilliant at his job but loved telling off-color stories. He wasn’t a creeper trying to push boundaries–he just loved the jokes. Unfortunately, late in life, he moved to a more conservative state and kept on keeping on. Within a few years, he was accused of sexual harassment and forced to retire.

I will swear on a stack of Bibles that he was innocent of the charges. But unfortunately, when you engage in behavior that is identical to that of predators, people will assume that you are one, too.

Not just that, but organizations have realized that the way to deal with this is to simply not tolerate grooming behaviors. It is easier to teach innocent people to observe stricter professional boundaries than it is is to expect young people to tell the difference between the innocent and the sleazy. It removes the hiding places for the reptilian sort who prey on the unsuspecting, and it does not hurt people like your friend to learn to save the off-color stories for social peers who can tell him bluntly when they don’t like them.

Besides, it isn’t fair to ask young people like the OP’s daughter to risk telling superiors that their social ineptness is not appreciated. The organization’s policies ought to do that for her.

 

[Little_Sheep]

I have not read through all the responses yet, but I will.

My immediate reaction is to completely miss the problem. If the piece of clothing is not suggestive or offensive and the gift-giver is a regular positive adult male figure in the life of this young lady, then it was a lovely gift and I have difficulty understanding how it could be taken as inappropriate. Perhaps there is a family dynamic at play that I fail to grasp. I didn’t understand the not telling a spouse about the gift - clearly you know better than me if his reaction would be extreme.

I suspect the gift-giver was just trying to give something that would be enjoyed and appreciated - that’s difficult to do in a day and age where young people might prefer cash or a gift card!

Good luck!