Defending a Higher Law: Why We Must Resist Same-sex “Marriage”

[buffalo]

Whereas a same-sex couple doesn’t even get that much. In their case, without a will, the estate would probably go to the deceased’s parent or sibling if they die childless.

Depends on the civil union. Some give rights close to marriage, some are far from it. And some states have even enacted amendments to their state constitutions to prohibit civil unions for same-sex couples as well as marriage.

But off the top of my head, at least in the US, civil unions don’t provide any of the rights or benefits given to marriages at the federal level. And marriage provides recognition abroad that civil unions don’t. For example, Israel will recognize a foreign same-sex marriage but not a foreign civil union.

In any case I do not support same sex marriage, so I am happy with laws that block it. America has a long standing marriage tradition that needs and deserves social encouragement. I am against its redefinition as this would cause it to be redesigned into a contract in which any kinds of parties could form any relationship/s they want.

This will be the ultimate downfall of America.

I do not want laws that encourage deviate behavior including:

the acts of:

homosexuality
bestiality
burglary
murder
polygamy
molestation

and so on.

 

[Charlotte408]

Access to Military Stores (WHAT? homosexuals are allowed in the military…therefore they wear military uniforms/use the same guns, watever, therefore they go into military stores and buy whatever else anyone else would use from one of those stores)
Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Bereavement Leave (why wouldnt they have this? if someone dies, and you ask for time off, your generally granted leave, regardless of who the person is)
Immigration (i have several family members in the process of immigration, we are an immigrant family, last summer i had 3 members deported the immigration system isnt fair for A LOT of people, and a lot of people have to wait a decade)
Insurance Breaks (like, what exactly?)
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Social Security Survivor Benefits
Sick Leave to Care for Partner(didnt you just say this…like a line ago?)
Tax Breaks
Veteran’s Discounts (if someones a veteran, they get discounts…doesnt matter wether they are homosexual or not…are you saying that homosexuals in the military that no longer served are not considered veterans and dont get the same discounts?)
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison (a complete lie! ive been in jail…ive visited jails/prisions…there are so many homosexuals in/visiting jails/prisions thats just flat out wrong.)
Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Automatic Inheritance (write a will, leave your stuff to that person)
Automatic Housing Lease Transfer
Bereavement Leave (i think thats on here twice?? well at least it beefs up your arguement)
Burial Determination (a will doesnt solve this?)
Child Custody (gays adopt children…gays get artificial insemination and all kinds of stuff, people argue all the time that gays have normal families with kids…so…your saying they ‘dont REALLY have those kids’?)
Crime Victim’s Recovery Benefits (what? a crime against a person is a crime, you get something stolen, the cops find it, they give it back…how is a homosexual any different)
Divorce Protections (wait, homosexuals need protection against divorce? i dont understand what protection you need)
Domestic Violence Protection (again BS…if someone hits you, your spouse, regardless of their sex, and you call the cops, they are NOT going to say, oh well your gay, so continue the beating)
Exemption from Property Tax on Partner’s Death
Immunity from Testifying Against Spouse
Insurance Breaks (AGAIN…well good way to beef it up…)
Joint Adoption and Foster Care (again…gays adopt children and foster them…so…)
Joint Bankruptcy
Joint Parenting (Insurance Coverage, School Records) (well…if they are the adopted parents, who are you saying determines the childs insurance? who pays for it? who gets their grades, views their school records? are you saying that gay parents who adopt dont?)
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner (whats that thing called?? oh darn it…not a will, but you sign it and they sign it and in the case you cant make a descision for yourself, they can?? attorney at will?? no…shoot…)
Certain Property Rights (liiiiike…)
Reduced Rate Memberships (oooooooh yeah…lets approve same sex marriage so they can pay the premium rate at the gym…)
Sick Leave to Care for Partner (again???)
Visitation of Partner’s Children (beefing…)
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison(lol…you must have run out of arguements…)
Wrongful Death (Loss of Consort) Benefits (will…write a will peoples)

 

[buffalo]

Access to Military Stores (WHAT? homosexuals are allowed in the military…therefore they wear military uniforms/use the same guns, watever, therefore they go into military stores and buy whatever else anyone else would use from one of those stores)
Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Bereavement Leave (why wouldnt they have this? if someone dies, and you ask for time off, your generally granted leave, regardless of who the person is)
Immigration (i have several family members in the process of immigration, we are an immigrant family, last summer i had 3 members deported the immigration system isnt fair for A LOT of people, and a lot of people have to wait a decade)
Insurance Breaks (like, what exactly?)
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Social Security Survivor Benefits
Sick Leave to Care for Partner(didnt you just say this…like a line ago?)
Tax Breaks
Veteran’s Discounts (if someones a veteran, they get discounts…doesnt matter wether they are homosexual or not…are you saying that homosexuals in the military that no longer served are not considered veterans and dont get the same discounts?)
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison (a complete lie! ive been in jail…ive visited jails/prisions…there are so many homosexuals in/visiting jails/prisions thats just flat out wrong.)
Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Automatic Inheritance (write a will, leave your stuff to that person)
Automatic Housing Lease Transfer
Bereavement Leave (i think thats on here twice?? well at least it beefs up your arguement)
Burial Determination (a will doesnt solve this?)
Child Custody (gays adopt children…gays get artificial insemination and all kinds of stuff, people argue all the time that gays have normal families with kids…so…your saying they ‘dont REALLY have those kids’?)
Crime Victim’s Recovery Benefits (what? a crime against a person is a crime, you get something stolen, the cops find it, they give it back…how is a homosexual any different)
Divorce Protections (wait, homosexuals need protection against divorce? i dont understand what protection you need)
Domestic Violence Protection (again BS…if someone hits you, your spouse, regardless of their sex, and you call the cops, they are NOT going to say, oh well your gay, so continue the beating)
Exemption from Property Tax on Partner’s Death
Immunity from Testifying Against Spouse
Insurance Breaks (AGAIN…well good way to beef it up…)
Joint Adoption and Foster Care (again…gays adopt children and foster them…so…)
Joint Bankruptcy
Joint Parenting (Insurance Coverage, School Records) (well…if they are the adopted parents, who are you saying determines the childs insurance? who pays for it? who gets their grades, views their school records? are you saying that gay parents who adopt dont?)
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner (whats that thing called?? oh darn it…not a will, but you sign it and they sign it and in the case you cant make a descision for yourself, they can?? attorney at will?? no…shoot…)
Certain Property Rights (liiiiike…)
Reduced Rate Memberships (oooooooh yeah…lets approve same sex marriage so they can pay the premium rate at the gym…)
Sick Leave to Care for Partner (again???)
Visitation of Partner’s Children (beefing…)
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison(lol…you must have run out of arguements…)
Wrongful Death (Loss of Consort) Benefits (will…write a will peoples)

Just wondering…

If no-fault divorce is repealed I wonder if homosexuals would then want to be married?

 

[mkingdomlvr]

In any case I do not support same sex marriage, so I am happy with laws that block it. America has a long standing marriage tradition that needs and deserves social encouragement. I am against its redefinition as this would cause it to be redesigned into a contract in which any kinds of parties could form any relationship/s they want.

This will be the ultimate downfall of America.

I do not want laws that encourage deviate behavior including:

the acts of:

homosexuality
bestiality
burglary
murder
polygamy
molestation

and so on.

and you wonder why I have the impression I do about the way Catholics feel about gay people??? There we are, on the top of your list of evil things and responsible for the downfall of our entire society.

I notice that divorce and adultery didn’t make the list of evils…

 

[gearhead]

In any case I do not support same sex marriage, so I am happy with laws that block it. America has a long standing marriage tradition that needs and deserves social encouragement. I am against its redefinition as this would cause it to be redesigned into a contract in which any kinds of parties could form any relationship/s they want.

This will be the ultimate downfall of America.

But hasn’t marriage already been “redefined” in your view? If you really do think that marriage is defined as a religious institution, a sacrament and a permanent covenant, well… secular law hasn’t reflected that definition for centuries.

I do not want laws that encourage deviate behavior including:

the acts of:

homosexuality
bestiality
burglary
murder
polygamy
molestation

and so on.

Funny you brought up bestiality. Did you know that in the state of Florida, bestiality is legal?

IMO, it would be a “quick win” to get bestiality made illegal in Florida. If someone were to propose changing the law, there would be no opposition at all. Yet the Church and everyone else in the anti-same-sex marriage camp leave that issue alone and instead go after gay people.

I think that says something.

Just wondering…

If no-fault divorce is repealed I wonder if homosexuals would then want to be married?

Let me put it this way:

Same-sex marriage became legal in Ontario in 2003 and nationwide in 2005. Under Canadian law, non-residents can marry, but only residents can divorce. Nevertheless, American same-sex couples flocked across the border to marry (and continue to do so), despite knowing that they have no legal means to divorce, because their marriage wouldn’t be recognized at home.

 

[buffalo]

and you wonder why I have the impression I do about the way Catholics feel about gay people??? There we are, on the top of your list of evil things and responsible for the downfall of our entire society.

I notice that divorce and adultery didn’t make the list of evils…

By themselves they are not intrinsically evil.

But they should be on the list, I just didn’t think of them.

We can agree then the family unit is important to society.

I have mentioned no-fault divorce laws being a problem on many other threads.

 

[buffalo]

IMO, it would be a “quick win” to get bestiality made illegal in Florida. If someone were to propose changing the law, there would be no opposition at all. Yet the Church and everyone else in the anti-same-sex marriage camp leave that issue alone and instead go after gay people.

I think that says something.

Let me put it this way:

Same-sex marriage became legal in Ontario in 2003 and nationwide in 2005. Under Canadian law, non-residents can marry, but only residents can divorce. Nevertheless, American same-sex couples flocked across the border to marry (and continue to do so), despite knowing that they have no legal means to divorce, because their marriage wouldn’t be recognized at home.

Yeah - it says we do not know about it. But now that I do…

I find it shocking that it is legal. (have a source?)

Your assertion is ridiculous.

So it was for show. Part of the gay agenda. Make sure you and your same sex partner get up there before something changes. A show of force will surely make the news. We have to do this - it is important to our cause. Give me a break…

 

[gearhead]

Access to Military Stores (WHAT? homosexuals are allowed in the military…therefore they wear military uniforms/use the same guns, watever, therefore they go into military stores and buy whatever else anyone else would use from one of those stores)

I think this is referring to stores on military bases. Say your husband is in the military and you live in base housing; there will be grocery stores and such on base where you can do your shopping. Apparently, you’re allowed to access these if you’re a member of the military or the spouse of a member of the military.

Bereavement Leave (why wouldnt they have this? if someone dies, and you ask for time off, your generally granted leave, regardless of who the person is)

Generally. However, some employers are jerks. Also, gay people tend to have to deal with a higher proportion of jerks, since people like use their treatment of them to “send a message” about their feelings on homosexuality.

Insurance Breaks (like, what exactly?)

Auto insurance, for instance. You usually get a lower auto insurance rate if you’re married.

Veteran’s Discounts (if someones a veteran, they get discounts…doesnt matter wether they are homosexual or not…are you saying that homosexuals in the military that no longer served are not considered veterans and dont get the same discounts?)

I’m not quite sure, but when a person is discharged from the military for being gay, is that considered a dishonorable discharge? I know some veteran programs are contingent on having an honorable discharge; maybe that’s what he’s talking about.

Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison (a complete lie! ive been in jail…ive visited jails/prisions…there are so many homosexuals in/visiting jails/prisions thats just flat out wrong.)

This may depend on the state in question. And there are numerous stories about people being denied access to their same-sex partners in hospitals.

Crime Victim’s Recovery Benefits (what? a crime against a person is a crime, you get something stolen, the cops find it, they give it back…how is a homosexual any different)

In some jursidiction, if your spouse is murdered, you’ll get access to benefits through a victim’s fund. You don’t get this if the state doesn’t recognize the victim as your spouse.

Domestic Violence Protection (again BS…if someone hits you, your spouse, regardless of their sex, and you call the cops, they are NOT going to say, oh well your gay, so continue the beating)

Actually, in Ohio, the crime on their books is “spousal abuse”. They then passed a law prohibiting “marriage-like benefits” to unmarried couples. Since then, courts have ruled that protection under the statute for spousal abuse is a “marriage-like benefit”, and a number of domestic violence cases were dropped as a result. This is a real issue.

Wrongful Death (Loss of Consort) Benefits (will…write a will peoples)

That has nothing to do with wills. Say your husband is killed on the job because his employer violated some safety code. You would be able to sue for wrongful death benefits. In some places, same-sex partners can’t do this.

 

[gearhead]

Yeah - it says we do not know about it. But now that I do…

I find it shocking that it is legal. (have a source?)

Here you go: floridaanimallaw.com/2008/04/bestiality-bill-having-trouble-finding.html

I know it’s just a blog, but it has a link to the the paper that reported the story and the Florida House of Representatives web site. On the House site, you can see the most recent attempt at changing the law (there have been a few bills over the years). It died in committee in April 2008, effectively killed by apathy. This was right around the same time that the movement behind the state’s 2008 ballot measure banning same-sex marriage was gathering steam.

Your assertion is ridiculous.

Is it?

Where a person focuses (or doesn’t focus) their efforts is usually a good indicator of their priorities.

Edit: and while you may not have been aware of the issue, I’m certain that many Floridian Catholics were. The Humane Society has run campaigns in the past to change the law and there have been several prominent news stories about cases involving the issue.

 

[RyanML]

Part of the gay agenda.

What, exactly, is this “gay agenda”?

 

[buffalo]

What, exactly, is this “gay agenda”?

"The greatest single victory of the gay movement over the past decade has been to shift the debate from behavior to identity, thus forcing opponents into a position where they can be seen as attacking the civil rights of homosexual citizens."
From The Homosexualization of America, by homosexual activist Dennis Altman.

The 1972 Gay Rights Platform

In February 1972 the National Coalition of Gay Organizations met at the Armitage Avenue United Methodist Church in Chicago. An invitation had been sent out to 495 homosexual organizations across the U.S. to come and prepare a “gay stance for the 1972 elections.”
About 200 individuals from 18 states representing 85 organizations showed up for the two-day event. Conference participants adopted the 1972 Gay Rights Platform, which included 17 federal and state “demands.”
**For over 30 it has been the beacon of the homosexual movement in America. **Back in 1972 their demands seemed so outlandish that nobody took them seriously. But gay activists have been extremely focused and relentless in achieving their goals. (Notice the bottom goal on the list.)
It gives an interesting perspective. If someone back then had suggested that we would be discussing this subject today and in the position we’re in, it would not only have been considered unbelievable, it truly would have been beyond the ability of the average person to imagine it.
DEMANDS:
Federal:

1. 
   *]Amend all federal Civil Rights Acts, other legislation and government controls to prohibit discrimination in employment, housing, public accommodations and public services.
   *].Issuance by the President of an executive order prohibiting the military from excluding for reasons of their sexual orientation, persons who of their own volition desire entrance into the Armed Services; and from issuing less-than-fully-honorable discharges from homosexuality; and the upgrading to fully honorable all such discharges previously issued, with retroactive benefits.
   *]Issuance by the President of an executive order prohibiting discrimination in the federal civil service because of sexual orientation, in hiring and promoting; and prohibiting discriminations against homosexuals in security clearances.
   *]Elimination of tax inequities victimizing single persons and same-sex couples.
   *]Elimination of bars to the entry, immigration and naturalization of homosexual aliens.
   *]Federal encouragement and support for sex education courses, prepared and taught by Gay women and men, presenting homosexuality as a valid, healthy preference and lifestyle as a viable alternative to heterosexuality.
   *]Appropriate executive orders, regulations and legislation banning the compiling, maintenance and dissemination of information on an individual’s sexual preferences, behavior, and social and political activities for dossiers and data banks.
   *]Federal funding of aid programs of Gay men’s and women’s organizations designed to alleviate the problems encountered by Gay women and men which are engendered by an oppressive sexist society.
   *]Immediate release of all Gay women and men now incarcerated in detention centers, prisons and mental institutions because of sexual offense charges relating to victimless crimes or sexual orientation; and that adequate compensation be made for the physical and mental duress encountered; and that all existing records relating to the incarceration be immediately expunged.
   
   State:
   
   1. 
      *]All federal legislation and programs enumerated in Demands 1, 6, 7, 8 and 9 above should be implemented at the State level where applicable.
      *]Repeal of all state laws prohibiting private sexual acts involving consenting persons; equalization for homosexuals and heterosexuals for the enforcement of all laws.
      *]Repeal all state laws prohibiting solicitation for private voluntary sexual liaisons; and laws prohibiting prostitution, both male and female.
      *]Enactment of legislation prohibiting insurance companies and other state-regulated enterprises from discriminating because of sexual orientation, in insurance and in bonding or any other prerequisite to employment or control of one’s personal demesne.
      *]Enactment of legislation so that child custody, adoption, visitation rights, foster parenting, and the like shall not be denied because of sexual orientation or marital status.
      *]Repeal of all laws prohibiting transvestism and cross-dressing.
      *]Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent.
      *]Repeal of all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage unit; and the extension of legal benefits to all persons who cohabit regardless of sex or numbers.

 

[buffalo]

Homosexual Urban Legends - do not enter unless you want the truth

‘Gay’ Agenda … What ‘Gay’ Agenda?

“The agenda and vision that we must proudly articulate is that
yes, indeed, we intend to change society.”
–Matt Foreman, president of the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force, Nov. 10, “Creating Change” conference

 

[buffalo]

Unmasking The “Gay” Agenda

 

[gearhead]

Ah… so people pursue equal treatment under the law, therefore they have an “agenda”. Gotcha.

 

[RyanML]

Homosexual Urban Legends - do not enter unless you want the truth

‘Gay’ Agenda … What ‘Gay’ Agenda?

“The agenda and vision that we must proudly articulate is that
yes, indeed, we intend to change society.”
–Matt Foreman, president of the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force, Nov. 10, “Creating Change” conference

Hmmm…the first link is blocked by websense under “Racism and Hate”…not good.

 

[buffalo]

Hmmm…the first link is blocked by websense under “Racism and Hate”…not good.

LOL - who sets those filters?

Anyway - loosen up your parental controls and look through this stuff.

If you see hate let me know and I will withdraw the link.

 

[buffalo]

Ah… so people pursue equal treatment under the law, therefore they have an “agenda”. Gotcha.

Take it up with this person - The agenda and vision that we must proudly articulate is that yes, indeed, we intend to change society.”
***–Matt Foreman, president of the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force, Nov. 10, “Creating Change” conference

Are you still willing to dispute there is an organized push?*

 

[gearhead]

Take it up with this person - The agenda and vision that we must proudly articulate is that yes, indeed, we intend to change society.”
***–Matt Foreman, president of the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force, Nov. 10, “Creating Change” conference

Are you still willing to dispute there is an organized push?*

Of course there’s a “push”: to have gay people not treated as second-class citizens. And this would represent a change for society.

Beyond that, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

[buffalo]

Of course there’s a “push”: to have gay people not treated as second-class citizens. And this would represent a change for society.

Beyond that, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Did you even read the bottom half of the platform?

 

[gearhead]

Did you even read the bottom half of the platform?

Yes; what about it? Do you think it’s some sort of manifesto that every gay person swears to uphold? It’s not. And I think the fact that you had to reach back to 1972 to find your straw man is evidence of this.

I think that the strategic goals of PFLAG are much closer to the mainstream position of the gay rights movement today:

Our Strategic Goals

One. Build the capacity of our organization at every level so that we may have all the resources, in the form of information, people and funding, necessary to move forward in our work with the greatest possible effect.

Two. Create a world in which our young people may grow up and be educated with freedom from fear of violence, bullying and other forms of discrimination, regardless of their real or perceived gender identity or sexual orientation or that of their families.

Three. Make our vision and our message accessible to the broadest range of ethnic and cultural communities, ending the isolation of families with gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender family members within those communities.

Four. Work toward full inclusion of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender persons within their chosen communities of faith.

Five. Create a society in which all GLBT persons may openly and safely pursue the career path of their choice, and may be valued and encouraged to grow to their full potential in the workplace.

Six. Create a society in which all gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender persons may enjoy, in every aspect of their lives, full civil and legal equality and may participate fully in all the rights, privileges and obligations of full citizenship in this country.

We welcome the participation and support of all who share in our Vision and Mission and who hope to realize our goals.