Defending Mary's Virginity

  • Thread starter Thread starter philipmarie
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
adstrinity said:
But it’s true. God obeyed Mary when He was growing up, He obeyed Her when She was grown, …no prooof He obeys Her now, though. I don’t think They have that relationship anymore.
Click to expand...
Yes Jesus obeyed mary, but remember that mary isnt god, she is our “prayer buddy” and intercessor… God will do whatever he KNOWS is best… I think you misunderstand mary’s role in our lifes… Just because god doesnt grant you your petition, it doesnt mean you run to our blessed mother and “demand” her to convince GOD… I hope i dont come off to strong, But I will pray for you
 
FRANKYG said:
Yes Jesus obeyed mary, but remember that mary isnt god, she is our “prayer buddy” and intercessor… God will do whatever he KNOWS is best… I think you misunderstand mary’s role in our lifes… Just because god doesnt grant you your petition, it doesnt mean you run to our blessed mother and “demand” her to convince GOD… I hope i dont come off to strong, But I will pray for you
Click to expand...
Thank you for your prayers. God is not a geanie. Nowhere in this thread does it say that anybody demands Mary to do anything.
 
but you are saying Mary commands God, which is something the church does not teach

Sorry: my comments are meant for philipmarie
 
***Several posts have been pruned from this thread because they were off topic and based upon a (now edited) statement that, in fact, is not an authentic Catholic teaching.

Please remain on the topic of the Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Very sincerely,***
 
Thank you, Mr. Modarater. You would not mind showing me which is that statement which is not authentic Catholic teaching would you?
Resuming my defense of the Sacred Virginity of Mary most Holy. A certain (anti-catholic) website called jesusislord.com and also that utterly blasphemous film, the Nativity story(2005) claim that, since Joseph married his wife, he would not marry her so as to not have children. This claim too is without foundation as, according to Saint Jerome and to Church teaching, Saint Joseph is not really, really the husband of Mary like how our parents are. He is Her husband putatively.

First- Some loquacious modernists who do not even know how to count there ABC in Religion have spread the utter lie that Jesus was concieved before Mary and Joseph started living together. This is silly and blasphemous at the same time.

The normal marraige of tow Jewish spouses had two parts- the marraige itself(the bethrothal) and the time in which they lived together. Mary and Joseph were already married and living together. This can be seen from the bit were Matthew says: and he knew her not until she brought forth her first born Son.. One would not say he was going to do something if he was not going to do it. For example:

Suppose a Mr. X and Mr. Y where going to come together:and they did not come together until she bought some cod fish.. They could not come together if they were not married. So they had to be married and be living together to make it possible to come together.

I say possible, because Jesus had Mary and Joseph married so as to not humiliate His Mother. Jesus was concieved out of the Holy Ghost, yet, so as to not lose the dignity of Mary, the Mother of God,(in God’s Heart, especially this he counted on!), and to make Jesus seem that He was an illegitimate child. Who would listen to an illegitimate Child?
A mamzer, that is to say, one born of a prostitute, shall not enter into the church of the Lord, until the tenth generation. *A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
*

Note: An illegitimate Child, to be legitimate, have to be those who are born out of wedlock(marraige), and those who are not born after six months of marraige(so if you are born after 5 months of marraige for example, your illegitimate). This does not mean that children born of marraiges which are not catholic are all illegitimate. For example, those who are born inside a marraige of the X$!$$/ religion are still considered legitimate, because the marraige for the parents seemed the real marraige. The only marraiges which do result in illegitimate children are those marraiges whic come from the Government. And, should you happen to be illegitimate, do not worry. Blessed Martin de Porres was an illegitimate child, but he still he is one of the greatest Saints there have ever lived! And I know of a friend who was so inordinately vain and worldly who was converted to the Catholic faith by the Blessed Virgin, the Queen of Heaven. It is evident that Mary loves him very, very much, even if he is an illegitimate child(he told me so, and I put this note here so as to relieve those rather pessimistic souls.

Anyway, to those who might rashly say: but how on earth could Joseph be married to Her putatively?

Dictionary: merriam-webster.com/dictionary/putative
 
Mary, at age three was presented in the temple of Jerusalem and lived as a temple Virgin(She was like one of the first nuns) and there took a vow of Virginity, a vow which the Church fathers say, She was the first to make. God appeared to the Woman who wa destined to become His Mother, and told Her to get married. It was not revealed to Her why She had to get married but, relying on God to preserve Her Virginity, She obeyed. But God had to choose the husband. In a miraculous manner, Joseph was chosen and they got married.

Mary and Joseph, with all modesty spoke about Her vow of Virginity, only to be revealed that Joseph had taken it too. So, happy as never beofre, they lived the life of the two most chaste Spouses there ever was. Joseph was the guardian of the Blessed Virgin, and Her defender. He is regarded as the defender of Her Virginity. Not because Mary could have been an occasion of sin, but because, it was to protect her from the awful remarks and hisses of the world(like the hisses of some Protestants out there).

If Joseph really was married to the Blessed Virgin, as in really, really, not putatively, then how come he knew her not until She had brought forth Her first born Son? If a Joseph wanted children then, why wait? It is obvious that he did not know that the Blessed Virgin was to be the Mother of God; if he did, then why would he try to put her away privately; why would the angel even bother to tell him to take her unto his wife if he knew it[that Mary is the Mother of God]? I reeally mean not to insult Saint Joseph, sincerely not, but if his alleged ‘lust’ wanted to have children, why did he have to wait so long? It is evident that the two most chaste and most Holy Spouses wanted to live THE life of Chastity. This is what makes one think that the two vowed vows of Virginity.

26 And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. The famous Saint Jerome says that in Hebrew, the word ‘Virgin’ used here, signifies a retired Virgin, a Virgin living as a nun(in fact, all nuns are retired Virgins.), and that is what Mary is, showing even more the possibility that Mary dedicated Her whole self to God.

34 And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man?
Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
The Douy Rheims(which is a trranslation of the Vulgate) shows that Mary wanted to preserve Her Virginity. A certain Saint asks: Why would the Blessed Virgin ask such ‘seemingly’ naive question, if one would normally go into the course to make children? If you had the skill of cooking, and you were working in a four star restaurant, would you say: how shall this be done, because I do not know how to cook? if you were ordered by your Mother to make her a cup of tea?

The Blessed Virgin feared that, if She accepted, She would have to lose Her Virginity, an infinite trasure one can, and should say.
 
See how much God prizes His Mothers Virginity, because, in order to preserve and confirm the Virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Holy Ghost over shadowed Her. He prepared the Immaculate Virgin to be His tabernacle and house, He prepared this Paradise to be His Queen, a Paradise which He prizes and reigns more gloriously, even more than the heavens above where He dwells bettween the Cherubim and Seraphim! And God is not going to allow the Blessed Virgin to lose Her Virginity. Otherwise, this tabernacle would be desecrated. It would never pass into the mind of Saint Joseph, as doing this would be the biggest sacrilage there could ever be.

Note that the Blessed Virgin could have chosen to not become the mother of God, without any fear of punishment. It is evident that She would have renounced this dignity in order to preserve Her Virginity. The heretic called by the name of David J. Stewart, an anti-catholic fundamentalist, who runs the blasphemous jesus-is-savior.com, rants against the Lutherans and the Catholic Church for believing that God needed Mary’s permission for Jesus to come into Her womb.

He says that God did not need Mary’s permission. Now, why on earth would that loudmouthed, foul mothed Stewart(who tells such horrible untruths about the Catholic Church on his website) say this? Is it because Mary’s permission seems to humble God? Is the alleged Mary which fundamentalists beleive in such a sinner that she lowers God to such a degree? Whereas the Blessed Virgin which Catholics beleive in says: My soul doth magnify the Lord. What strange inconsistencies!

And if God did not need Her permission then, why did God give us free will? Why would He even bother asking Her to become His Mother? Would that(I mean not t be rude) not be taking a woman by force? If somebody does not want to become a Mother, would you force her to become one, unless you were some very, rash and impudent thing? God Almighty would never force anyone to do something which He wants, as God gave us free will.

God could have forced Adam and Eve not to sin, but by free will, they disobeyed; Judas, by freewill bitrayed the Son of God; even the devil, before he fell had free will, else, he would not have gone into hell! God could have forced him to become humble, yet, then, there would be no free will.
 
Stewart just said that horrible calumny against Mary Most Holy so as to lower Her dignity. Let him know that God has chastised very, very, and I mean very severely those who have insulted His Most Holy Mother. A group of Hussites stole an ancient icon of Our Lady, by the name of Czestochowa. Their horses would not budge. One of the Hussites, more out of bluff and rashness, so cruelly broke the picture in two and slashed it with a sword. By the just judgement of God, God struck him on the spot and the hussite monster died such a horrible and shrieking death that those around him surely mulst have been petrified. He was proably condemened for such a malicious act.
 
Now, resuming the defense of the Virginity of the Mother of God.

Many claim as a poor, two-penced excuse that the Bible shows that Jesus had brothers.

**And his mother and his bretheren came; and standing without, sent unto him, calling him. ** There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him. Mark 3:31.
And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
**And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him up in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn. ** Luke 2:7.

This poor excuse of a rant is more specious than real. First, I shall deal with the firstborn Son business: by this, Luke did not mean to imply that the Blessed Virgin had more Children after Jesus. Jesus is called the first born because he really is the first born of Mary, not that He had brothers.

Secondly, why would the Blessed Virgin want other children? Our Lady has for Her Son a God. If you were the Mother of a God, I do not think you would be wanting more children. Mary, who is the ever sinless and most perfect of all of God’s creatures would never be ungrateful, so as to want other children than Jesus. Try telling this to some evil Evangelical.

Thirdly, brethren in the Gospel means the relative of cousin, or of blood relationship. If you notice, the ‘brothers’ are not called strictly speaking, ‘brothers’ but ‘bretheren’, as in blood relationship.
Another excuse that Protestants use is that, Elizabeth was called Mary’s cousin in the Gospel of Saint Luke, so this may imply that, if the bretheren really were cousins of Jesus, they would be called cousins, not bretheren. This is easily explained, as not all the Gospels were written in the same language. Matthew was written in Aramiac, for example. The other Gospels were either written in Hebrew/Greek, and so, diffirences between words and languages could exist. Here in Malta, for example, we have a Maltese word for ‘brain’ but not for ‘mind’. Even in the translations of prayers from one language to another there is a big diffirence! A Latin verse could mean one thing, but when we take it from an English one, we may easily mistake it for quite another meaning.
 
Finally, at the foot of the Cross, Jesus gave His Mother unto the care of the disciple(and consequently us) and not to some fake brothers. Woman, behold thy son; behold thy Mother. If these so called brothers really did exist, why did not jesus give Mary unto them?

The infamous Mizzi claimed that, since Jesuss’ brothers did not believe, He gave Mary unto one who did believe. What an excuse! I do not know whther to laugh or to get angry.

First, I already showed how Our Lady did not have other children. And second, even if She did(which She didn’t, as Mary is the ever and perfect perpetual Virgin Mary), there would be strange inconsistencies in this event.

The first inconsistancy is, that it would be unseemly that Jesus would not endow His alleged brothers with some special grace so as to make them believe. He gave His disciples the gift of faith, would He not give it to His brothers?

The second one is that, since the Blessed Virgin is the ever perfect and Immaculate Conception, would that mean that all the other children born from an immaculate womb be immaculately concieved? Whereas the Immaculate Conception is a singular privilege given to Mary alone.

And the third consistancy is, that if the Mother of God were to be given by Saint John, would that mean that the alleged brothers do not have a Mother any more? Who will take care of them and feed them? Who will clothe them, nourish them?

Also note that Jesus gave Mary unto the disciple, not unto John; infact He does not even mention the name of Saint John. . 26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! 27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home. John represents just one person, whereas the disciple represents all. And by not mentioning the name John, Jesus wanted to show that he was speaking to whomever was either reading or listening to His saying.

Just as Jesus is the only begotten of the Father by the order of nature, so Jesus is also the only begotten of Mary in the order of nature. But in the order of grace, we are both the Children of Mary and the Children of God. Mary, the Queen of heaven and earth and consequently, the Spouse of he Holy Spirit in whom He makes Children! So as to not go off topic, I will stop in this bit, but if I were to speak about it, I really would not stop!
 
One should also consider Her Virginity during birth. I think everyone knows what happens in a normal birth, all the pain, and even a bit of immodesty.

Now it would be really silly for Jesus to be born like other children. First, it is not in keeping with the ever-undefiled modesty of the Blessed Virgin. It was revealed to a Ven. Mary of Agreda, a very holy religous who died in the odour of sanctity in the 17th century that, the body of te Blessed Virgin, even after She died(and before She was Assumed into heaven) was not even uncovered so as to clean it. Only the face and hands remained uncovered. Our Lady, in ALL Her apparitions was fully clothed and modestly dressed, always wearing a veil and the proper dress. Our Lady told Jacinta before she died(jacinta Marto-one of the visionaries of Fatima): certain fashions will be introduced which will offend our Divine Lord very much. Those who follow God ought not to follow such fashions, as Our Lord always stays the same. The Immaculate Virgin will Definitely NOT approve of such fashions.

Mary also, being the Immaculate Virgin that She is, would not suffer the effects of original sin, as She also is exempt from the punishment due to Adam. Please note that, Adam, even if he did not sin the fist sin(eating an apple), he would still have to suffer so as to gain merit for heaven. We see Jesus suffering yet, He surely never had original sin.

Jesus came into the womb of Mary miraculously, as He was concieved out of the Holy Ghost. So also, He who came into the womb of Mary perfectly, was going to leave it(reluctantly, as the Blessed Virgin, as I have mentioned IS a Paradise) perfectly. According to Saint Augustine, Jesus, instead of dividing the chamber which enclosed Him: penetrated it like a light beam when it goes through a piece of glass.

One remember how Jesus got transfigured on Mount Tabor? And how He after He died and resureccted Himself, had glorified His body. According to the Baltimore Cathechism:
Q. 408. What do we mean when we say Christ rose “glorious” from the dead?

A. When we say Christ rose “glorious” from the dead we mean that His body was in a glorified state; that is, gifted with the qualities of a glorified body.

Q. 409. What are the qualities of a glorified body?

A. The qualities of a glorified body are:
  1. Brilliancy, by which it gives forth light;
  2. Agility, by which it moves from place to place as rapidly as an angel;
  3. Subtility, by which material things cannot shut it out;
  4. Impassibility, by which it is made incapable of suffering.
 
Notice quality number 3. On Mount Tabor, Jesus was glorified, just as He was at the Resurection, but He was not Ressurected yet. So, Jesus being God and since nothing is impossible for God, got glorified(or tranfigured) inside the womb of His Mother and easily penetrated it as described in the last post.

Objection: Is not Christ like unto us in everything, except sin? This is true, but this is considering that not everything which does not happen to you, did not happen in the life of Jesus and Mary. There are many mystics who had the gifts of bilocation, speaking in toungues, clairvoyance, and even a sort of charm which is to be found especially in those Marian souls. So, what a creaure could be gifted by, we have to conclude that Jesus and Mary were gifted with it too. Padre Pio could read hearts, why not Jesus and Mary? Some Saints could bilocate, why not jesus and Mary?

I here conclude my little thread defending the Virginity of Mary Most Holy. I have to say one thing: why on earth would somebody deny the Virginity of the Blessed Virgin?

It could be like that Hellvidius who, to attract attention, went and did such a horrible calumny. Saint Jerome answered him with a booklet which was so passionate. It seems evident that Saint Jerome loved defending his Most Holy Mother!

Is it out of the love which Protestants bear towards Jesus? Do they love Him so much as to humble His most Holy Mother so much? I never heard of somebody who, to win the favour of a King, hurt and offended his Mother. Some extreme fundamentalists out there may accuse us that we teach that Our Lady remained a Virgin ever-undefiled all Her life so as to make Her seem like a '‘goddess’. Rather, I accuse them of denying Her Virginity so as to humiliate this Most Holy Mother.

Know that Jesus prizes the Virginity of Mary most Holy so much, as to not only defend it, but also to confirm it. If Jesus was concieved and born miraculously, is this not a sign that he wanted His Most Pure Virginal Mother to remain the Virgin undefiled that She forever was, and always will be? We call Her: Purer than all the Angels and Saints put together!
 
Devotions in honour of the Blessed Virgin’s Purity.

Mary is the ever chaste and puure Virgin, so much so that, She cannot stand those who are unchaste. This does not mean that, if you have lost your baptisimal innocence, She will reject, as She is the Mother of Mercy, and will never reject anyone who comes to Her asking for help. She does not question his merits, or whether he is worthy or unworthy, but only the intention with which he comes. So here they are, some devotions in honour of Her Sacred Virginity.

1. Three Hail Mary’s in honour of Her Purity.
The three Hail Mary’s pracitce is so praise worthy and so useful that, there is even an ArchConfraternity in honour of such a worthy practise. We say three Hail Mary’s in honour of Marys’ Virginity before, during, and after the birth of Christ, Her Son. It would be useful too, to add the following short prayer after each Hail Mary: By thy pure and immaculate Conception, O Mary, make my body pure and my soul holy.

2. Aspirations and ejaculations.

We can sometimes call upon the Blessed Virgin with ejaculations which relate to Her Purity without stain. Saint Philip Neri used to call the Blessed Virgin: Virgin and Mother. He puts the words ‘Virgin’ and ‘Mother’ together, signifying that the Divine Maternity and the Virginity of Mary Most Holy go hand in hand. Thus, we can call on Her: Virgin Mother, have pity on me. or: Virginal Mother, be my salvation.

We can also call Her by Her name, to avoid carnal temptations. By just calling Her name alone, the devils flee because they fear the Blessed Virgin so much that even by the least sound of Her name they run like cowards(or rather, they run like hell!) Entrust to Her your Purity and Virginity so that She may guard it and safe keep it. Notice that Saint Bernardette, who was so extraordinarly devoted to the Blessed Virgin(who appeared to Her in Lourdes in 1858) looks younger than She is. This is because the Blessed Virgin preserved her virginity and bapptisimal innocence so well that it seems, that the flower and freshness of purity remained in her[Saint Bernardette].

This is also evident in Pope Saint Pius X. I do not think that anyone ever noticed this but, Pope Saint Pius looks MUCH younger than he is supposed to(Note: the image here of Pope Saint Pius is for viewing purposes only. I am not with the SSPX). Pius X died in 1914: when he was 79 years old! He looks like a man of 50 years. After he died, his body was found to look like that of a 30 year old person. His body was later found to be incorrupt. It seems that Our Lady gave to Her beloved Spouse(Pope Pius, as Priests are Spouses of Mary Immaculate) Her pure Virginal purity. Thomas Aquinas says that Mary is purer than all the angels as She is purity itself. She even passes Her purity unto others, without it diminishing.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
And so, what do we do now? We sing:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Lovely Lady dressed in blue -------
Teach me how to pray!
God was just your little boy,
Tell me what to say!

Did you lift Him up, sometimes,
Gently on your knee?
Did you sing to Him the way
Mother does to me?

Did you hold His hand at night?
Did you ever try
Telling stories of the world?
O! And did He cry?

Do you really think He cares
If I tell Him things -------
Little things that happen? And
Do the Angels’ wings

Make a noise? And can He hear
Me if I speak low?
Does He understand me now?
Tell me -------for you know.

Lovely Lady dressed in blue -------
Teach me how to pray!
God was just your little boy,
And you know the way.

Through the Immaculate Blessed Virgin Mary,
Oh Mary, this is for love of thee, for the conversion of sinners, and in reparation for those sins commited against thy Immaculate Heart,
philipmarie.
 
Please do reply if you have any objections. I am sorry if I can’t answer all, if any at all! I will make up for it by saying a Hail Mary for all of you… I promise.
 
It always gives me joy when someone filled with love tries to defend our Lady. I don’t think any praise we give her is ever wasted.
 
Once, Saint Alphonsus Maria de Ligouri was approached by someone who, bluffing, said the he honoured the Blessed Virgin too much…

“Ah! That is impossible; we can never honour Mary too much.”

Our Lady of La Salette, pray for us!
 
Hey, vote against that utterly vulgar sony film, called ‘Legion’. It has got to be the most satanic and vulgar film that was ever made.
 
John 19:26; When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.”
John 19:27; Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.

It would have been unthinkable for Jesus to commit the care of his mother to a friend if he had brothers. This pretty much settles it for me, because if Jesus had any brothers…they would have for sure taken care of their own mother, due to the strict following of the commandments “Honor your mother”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top