Defending the creation story

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How do you respond to something like this:

“If incest is a sin then think about this. If God created Adam and Eve and the earth’s population came from them, wouldn’t their kids have to sleep with eachother in order for the population to grow? And what about Noah’s Ark. If the world flooded and killed everthing on the planet and the only thing left alive were the animals on the Ark and Noah’s family, then wouldn’t Noah’s family have to sleep with eachother in order to get the population back up. I take it that when the bible said that we are all born in sin is because we are all inbred.”
 
Was incest considered a sin before Deuteronomy? Even among other cultures, it was widely accepted long after Moses time.
 
How do you respond to something like this:

“If incest is a sin then think about this. If God created Adam and Eve and the earth’s population came from them, wouldn’t their kids have to sleep with eachother in order for the population to grow? And what about Noah’s Ark. If the world flooded and killed everthing on the planet and the only thing left alive were the animals on the Ark and Noah’s family, then wouldn’t Noah’s family have to sleep with eachother in order to get the population back up. I take it that when the bible said that we are all born in sin is because we are all inbred.”
Why is it there are laws in just about all nations that one cannot merry a 2ond or 3rd and up to a 5th cousin. These laws are so because of the genetic load, the genetic defects which would when combined with a close reletive such as cousin would produce a defective child. Scripture did not condemn marriage between siblings until about the time Moses. Prior to the flood the genetic defects would have been minimal since God’s creation would have been perfect in the begining. Something radically changed after Noah’s flood. Look at who Abraham married, he married his half sister.
 
How do you respond to something like this:

“If incest is a sin then think about this. If God created Adam and Eve and the earth’s population came from them, wouldn’t their kids have to sleep with eachother in order for the population to grow? And what about Noah’s Ark. If the world flooded and killed everthing on the planet and the only thing left alive were the animals on the Ark and Noah’s family, then wouldn’t Noah’s family have to sleep with eachother in order to get the population back up. I take it that when the bible said that we are all born in sin is because we are all inbred.”
Personally, I would respond by saying that “not everything that is true necessarily happened.”
 
There are truths contained in stories whether or not those stories actually happened.
Ohhhhhhh… that clears it up. :confused:

I hope you’re not saying that we didn’t all descend from Adam and Eve, which would mean that all of his children would have had to pro-create with each other.
 
Ohhhhhhh… that clears it up. :confused:

I hope you’re not saying that we didn’t all descend from Adam and Eve, which would mean that all of his children would have had to pro-create with each other.
I’m saying I don’t have to take Genesis literally in order to have its truth revealed to me. AN example: I don’t have to believe that Adam and Eve were the first two beings in order to believe that we, as humans, share the same common roots.
 
I do not have the time or ability to answer.

I have studied for many years and I will say that comprehending the Creation passages is more difficult than math and physics combined. It is more difficult than biology and chemistry combined. No, it is more difficult than all of the above mentioned combined.

I am sorry that I am unable to explain that, but one must first believe and then start loving. Or start loving and then one will believe.

If one does not want to love, one will never believe.

If you don’t want to believe, you will never love.

If you don’t want to believe, you will never understand.

Again, I am sorry for not being able to explain.

Read St. Augustine if you believe the Church, that is, The Literal Meaning of Genesis. It is translated in the first volume of Ancient Christians Writers.

Charity and Faith work together. Then you will begin to understand the Creation passages.

Let me know what you think…
 
I’m saying I don’t have to take Genesis literally in order to have its truth revealed to me. AN example: I don’t have to believe that Adam and Eve were the first two beings in order to believe that we, as humans, share the same common roots.
OK, thank you, my friend.

You were being rather vague there.

Here’s what we, as Catholics, hold true with the Creation Story:
Code:
                    1. The creation of all things out of nothing by God at the beginning of time (including the creation of time).
                      2. The special creation of man.
                      3. The creation of woman from man.
                      4. All of humanity is descended from an original pair of human beings - i.e. Adam and Eve.
                      5. Adam and Eve were created in an original state of holiness, justice, and immortality.
                      6. A divine command was laid upon man to prove his obedience to God [do not eat from the tree…] 
                      7. The transgression of that Divine Command at the instigation of Satan.  
                    8. The loss of the state of holiness, justice, and immortality of our 1st parents [because of their disobedience, Adam and Eve were kicked out of Paradise].
                      9. The promise of a future Redeemer, a Savior [Genesis 3:15, the protoevangelium, the first “good news”]. Reference: Denzinger: #2123
 
OK, thank you, my friend.

You were being rather vague there.

Here’s what we, as Catholics, hold true with the Creation Story:
Code:
                    1. The creation of all things out of nothing by God at the beginning of time (including the creation of time).
                      2. The special creation of man.
                      3. The creation of woman from man.
                      4. All of humanity is descended from an original pair of human beings - i.e. Adam and Eve.
                      5. Adam and Eve were created in an original state of holiness, justice, and immortality.
                      6. A divine command was laid upon man to prove his obedience to God [do not eat from the tree…] 
                      7. The transgression of that Divine Command at the instigation of Satan.  
                    8. The loss of the state of holiness, justice, and immortality of our 1st parents [because of their disobedience, Adam and Eve were kicked out of Paradise].
                      9. The promise of a future Redeemer, a Savior [Genesis 3:15, the protoevangelium, the first “good news”]. Reference: Denzinger: #2123
Thanks. Sorry, didn’t mean to be vauge. I was paraphrasing a famous quote by Elle Weisel (sp?). I think we could have a long discussion about each of those points and how our respective faiths view them.
 
Hi

It is definitely not a sin to think the way you do. It is good because it provides an opportunity to explore and to search for the Truth.

Your thoughts are answered in Catholic Exchange - Lessons on Genesis - prepared by Dr Scott Hahn and his Team… If you have not read it , I have downloaded some lessons on Ms Word files and can share them with you, if you are interested.

I find it as one of the Best written study.
r_ee2000@yahoo.com.sg

God Bless
 
There are plenty of references to the symbolic interpretations of the early writings. We spend too much time debating how it happened and not enough appreciating that it did. Still I am surprised how many people are so sure of how to interprate Gesesis when our Popes, and other Leaders are not.

Papal Infallibility in faith and Morals

Pope Pius XII

“What is the literal sense of a passage is not always as obvious in the speeches and writings of the ancient authors of the East, as it is in the works of our own time. For what they wished to express is not to be determined by the rules of grammar and philology alone, nor solely by the context; the interpreter must, as it were, go back wholly in spirit to those remote centuries of the East and with the aid of history, archaeology, ethnology, and other sciences, accurately determine what modes of writing, so to speak, the authors of that ancient period would be likely to use, and in fact did use. For the ancient peoples of the East, in order to express their ideas, did not always employ those forms or kinds of speech which we use today; but rather those used by the men of their times and countries. What those exactly were the commentator cannot determine as it were in advance, but only after a careful examination of the ancient literature of the East” (Divino Afflante Spiritu 35–36).

“When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own”

“the teaching authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions . . . take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—[but] the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God”

(above found at www.catholicanswers.com) www.catholic.com/library/Creation_and_Genesis.asp www.catholic.com/library/Adam_Eve_and_Evolution.asp

He doesn’t say how it happened, but it does not seem to be a simple literal interpretation.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
159 Faith and science: “Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth.” “Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are.”
317 God alone created the universe, freely, directly and without any help
337 God himself created the visible world in all its richness, diversity and order. Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine “work”, concluded by the “rest” of the seventh day.204 On the subject of creation, the sacred text teaches the truths revealed by God for our salvation, 205 permitting us to "recognize the inner nature, the value and the ordering of the whole of creation to the praise of God."206

I apologize for the excessive length of this post.
 
I would also tell the person, with love, that Catholics do not read Genesis as a Science Paper.

In fact, Catholics read the Bible in a literal sense as opposed to a literalist interpretation.

This may help.
 
I’m saying I don’t have to take Genesis literally in order to have its truth revealed to me. AN example: I don’t have to believe that Adam and Eve were the first two beings in order to believe that we, as humans, share the same common roots.
As a Catholic you do, on that point.

The Toledoths of Genesis
 
As a Catholic you do, on that point.
As a catholic you have to believe that our first ancestor (the first given a soul by God), and original sin. The Literal existence of Adam and Eve is debatable.

The point of the story is we were created by God, and were given free will. Through free will we received the stain of original sin.

If you believe it to be completely literal witch is better Genesis 1 or 2, Similar but different. Both from different times in human history.
 
As a catholic you have to believe that our first ancestor (the first given a soul by God), and original sin. The Literal existence of Adam and Eve is debatable.

The point of the story is we were created by God, and were given free will. Through free will we received the stain of original sin.

If you believe it to be completely literal witch is better Genesis 1 or 2, Similar but different. Both from different times in human history.
** How to read the account of the fall**
[390](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/390.htm’)😉 The account of the fall in *Genesis *3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man.264 Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.265

**
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