Defending the Rosary

[JoeyWarren]

One sad part of all the non denom evangelical type churches in the last century is that there seems to be no appreciation for ancient prayer practices. Contemplative prayer, meditations, etc, seem to have been set aside. That is too bad, because those practices really help us fulfill the command to “pray ceaselessly”.

Ditto with out loud echo…

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Good answer, Prayer Warrior !!

Misslollipops, of course the mind has a tendency to wander.
But just like prayer warrior said, you have to rebuke the distraction and focus on the story in the life of Christ.
Otherwise, you are just mindlessly reciting prayers and salutations. That’s not what the rosary is for.
I receive incredible insights from the Holy Spirit sometimes when I’m meditating on the mysteries of the rosary. There is so much more to the events in the life of Jesus and Mary that just
the bare facts recorded in the Sacred Text. There is also the underlying meanings that the Holy Ghost has placed in the sacred texts, and when you meditate on these stories, he
gives you insights into deeper meanings. It’s very refreshing.

God bless,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

 

[DebChris]

Good answer, Prayer Warrior !!

Misslollipops, of course the mind has a tendency to wander.
But just like prayer warrior said, you have to rebuke the distraction and focus on the story in the life of Christ.
Otherwise, you are just mindlessly reciting prayers and salutations. That’s not what the rosary is for.
I receive incredible insights from the Holy Spirit sometimes when I’m meditating on the mysteries of the rosary. There is so much more to the events in the life of Jesus and Mary that just
the bare facts recorded in the Sacred Text. There is also the underlying meanings that the Holy Ghost has placed in the sacred texts, and when you meditate on these stories, he
gives you insights into deeper meanings. It’s very refreshing.

God bless,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

I mentioned in an earlier post the single word/phrase I add to the Hail Mary to help maintain focus.
When I focus on the Agony in the Garden, I say “…blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus ‘in the garden.’” As I pray the decade, I not only see Jesus sweating drops of blood, I see the disciples asleep in the garden. I may, by extension, experience how God is working in the garden of my own soul and removing the weeds (sins) in my life.
In The Crowning of Thorns, my reflection on “King of Kings” leads to reflection of how not only did the soldiers mock Jesus, but his divinity is mocked constantly in the world today.
Jesus “taking my cross,” relieves me of my burdens and reminds me that his “yoke is gentle, [his] burden light.”

The insights are indeed refreshing. It is during the rosary, as with any other time when we allow our spirits to become quiet that we may uncover a better way of dealing with a particular issue we face in our own life.
Brother Lawrence wrote Practicing the Presence of God in our everyday life. The rosary is one aid that helps quiet our spirit so that we can do exactly that. Remember, the rosary is not being prayed merely in order to count up how well we have performed our daily devotions. It is prayed to help us in our relationship with God and with each other. There is a depth to our Catholic faith that cannot be fully fathomed by any one individual. There is always more to learn.

 

[guanophore]

And I’m sure your mind never wanders when saying the rosary.
It must be just me then.

Nope. I am ashamed to say this happens to me all the time.

 

[Randy_Carson]

And I’m sure your mind never wanders when saying the rosary. It must be just me then.

Are these the words of a joy-filled believer?

I detect too much anger, cynicism and bitterness in your posts to believe that you are so overflowing with love for Jesus and others that you just had to come to Catholic Answers to share the good news with us.

Instead, beneath the thin veneer of your “Bible Only” Christianity, there really doesn’t appear to be much in your responses beyond the poisoned thoughts of another lonely ex-Catholic.

They say confession is good for the soul. Perhaps you might want to schedule some time with a priest in your area.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[EphelDuath]

I almost had him convinced, until he read about the Franciscan Crown and said “wow, this prayer has NOTHING to do with Jesus. THAT is idolatry.”

 

[Pixie_Dust]

I almost had him convinced, until he read about the Franciscan Crown and said “wow, this prayer has NOTHING to do with Jesus. THAT is idolatry.”

What is the Franciscan Crown and what does it have to do with the Rosary?

 

[DebChris]

What is the Franciscan Crown and what does it have to do with the Rosary?

I just discovered the Little Crown of the Blessed Virgin Mary (same thing ?)
It is based on the vision in Revelation of a woman clothed with the sun and moon under her feet wearing a crown of twelve stars.
It begins with the Apostles Creed. Twelve Hail Mary’s are recited. In the version I found the words “Rejoice O Virgin Mary, Rejoice a Thousand Times” follow each Hail Mary.
There are three sets of four Hail Mary’s which begin with the Our Father and end with the Glory Be. The sets are The Crown of Excellence, The Crown of Power, and The Crown of Goodness.
St. Louis Montpier’s True Devotion to Mary is the source of this information.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

I just discovered the Little Crown of the Blessed Virgin Mary (same thing ?)
It is based on the vision in Revelation of a woman clothed with the sun and moon under her feet wearing a crown of twelve stars.
It begins with the Apostles Creed. Twelve Hail Mary’s are recited. In the version I found the words “Rejoice O Virgin Mary, Rejoice a Thousand Times” follow each Hail Mary.
There are three sets of four Hail Mary’s which begin with the Our Father and end with the Glory Be. The sets are The Crown of Excellence, The Crown of Power, and The Crown of Goodness.
St. Louis Montpier’s True Devotion to Mary is the source of this information.

Thank you! I’d never heard of it - and I’ve done quite a bit of research on the Rosary. I wonder how I missed that. So it goes something like:

Apostles’ Creed
Our Father
Hail Mary…Rejoice O Virgin Mary x4
Glory Be

and repeat twice more?

 

[DebChris]

Thank you! I’d never heard of it - and I’ve done quite a bit of research on the Rosary. I wonder how I missed that. So it goes something like:

Apostles’ Creed
Our Father
Hail Mary…Rejoice O Virgin Mary x4
Glory Be

and repeat twice more?

Repeat from Our Father for each set (Crowns of Excellence, Power, and Goodness).
Since I am using True Devotion, there is a verse added after each Hail Mary but that is not necessary from my understanding. It is simply something that the sisters of St. Louis Montpier added. I do not know if the Rejoice was an addition on their part, but I like it. I tire of Mary being portrayed as sorrowful all the time.
Since it part of the sisters’ morning prayer, I have been reciting it after Lauds.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Repeat from Our Father for each set (Crowns of Excellence, Power, and Goodness).

Gotcha. That’s what I was thinking but it came out of my fingers wrong when I typed it.

Since I am using True Devotion, there is a verse added after each Hail Mary but that is not necessary from my understanding. It is simply something that the sisters of St. Louis Montpier added. I do not know if the Rejoice was an addition on their part, but I like it. I tire of Mary being portrayed as sorrowful all the time.
Since it part of the sisters’ morning prayer, I have been reciting it after Lauds.

The beauty of private devotions is you can add things like that! When I pray the Hail Mary, I sometimes will say “…blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ our Lord/Saviour/Redeemer…”

 

[DebChris]

Gotcha. That’s what I was thinking but it came out of my fingers wrong when I typed it.

The beauty of private devotions is you can add things like that! When I pray the Hail Mary, I sometimes will say “…blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus Christ our Lord/Saviour/Redeemer…”

I shared on another thread the words I add to “…the fruit of your womb Jesus___” to help me focus on each mystery while praying the rosary.

Joyous

1. Incarnate
2. Sanctifying
3. Emmanuel
4. Redeemer
5. Teaching

Luminous

1. Baptized
2. Providing
3. Messiah
4. Transfigured
5. In the Eucharist

Sorrowful

1. In the Garden
2. Scourged
3. King of Kings
4. Taking my Cross
5. Crucified

Glorious

1. Resurrected
2. Lord of Lords
3. Indwelling
4. Raising us up
5. Prince of Peace

I also like the words used by The Marian Movement of Priests after each “Oh My Jesus.”
“Come Holy Spirit, Come by Means of the Powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.”

 

[Pixie_Dust]

I shared on another thread the words I add to “…the fruit of your womb Jesus___” to help me focus on each mystery while praying the rosary.

Joyous

1. Incarnate
2. Sanctifying
3. Emmanuel
4. Redeemer
5. Teaching

Luminous

1. Baptized
2. Providing
3. Messiah
4. Transfigured
5. In the Eucharist

Sorrowful

1. In the Garden
2. Scourged
3. King of Kings
4. Taking my Cross
5. Crucified

Glorious

1. Resurrected
2. Lord of Lords
3. Indwelling
4. Raising us up
5. Prince of Peace

I also like the words used by The Marian Movement of Priests after each “Oh My Jesus.”
“Come Holy Spirit, Come by Means of the Powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.”

Very helpful - thanks!

 

[clmowry]

I just discovered the Little Crown of the Blessed Virgin Mary (same thing ?)
It is based on the vision in Revelation of a woman clothed with the sun and moon under her feet wearing a crown of twelve stars.
It begins with the Apostles Creed. Twelve Hail Mary’s are recited. In the version I found the words “Rejoice O Virgin Mary, Rejoice a Thousand Times” follow each Hail Mary.
There are three sets of four Hail Mary’s which begin with the Our Father and end with the Glory Be. The sets are The Crown of Excellence, The Crown of Power, and The Crown of Goodness.
St. Louis Montpier’s True Devotion to Mary is the source of this information.

Well maybe that answers another question.

My grandmother left behind a “rosary” that had 3 sets of 12 beads with spaces every 4 beads in the 12.

Maybe this is what it was used for?

Chuck

 

[PC_Master]

I saw a few things which haven’t been really answered in the other Mary-related threads…

This person’s response to that would then be, “so why not ten Lord’s Prayers, then a single Hail Mary for each decade?”

A good question indeed. And yet, I somehow doubt most Roman Catholics would accept this, being married to the form, and not the [supposed] function. Even so, would that not be just as guilty of falling into “vain repetitions” – that is, speech that is meant for no purpose except to inflate words?

In fact, if you’re supposed to be meditating on something else while praying the Hail Marys, you can’t truly be focusing on what you’re praying (just as if you’re working while listening to the radio, you can’t fully pay attention to both). Thus, the Hail Mary is almost admittedly vain repetitions.

Sir Arnold Lunn, a British convert, told how, when he had been buried in an avalanche, he didn’t even think about praying. After he ws rescued he thought about that and was grateful for every Hail Mary he had prayed since his conversion because he knew when it DID come to the hour of his death, Mary would be there praying for his soul, even if he couldn’t.

The holy spirit is said to be always interceding for us, in groanings that cannot be uttered. God also knows what we need before we do, and certainly before we ask it. Though the former is more likely a figure of speech (God doesn’t actually have need to “talk to himself”), it still clarifies the point – God knows our needs even if we can’t, or don’t, say anything.

The Apologist Frank Sheed said, “If anyone’s prayers have power with God, our Lady’s have, she is the Mother of all men, and so most ready to come to our aid.”

That sounds like Mr. Sheed has some doubt as to whether our own prayers have power with God, or rather, are heard by God, since none has power in heaven except as God gives it.

The ten hail Mary’s during the Mysteries are not the focus of our meditation !! We are not meditating on Mary 10 times as much as meditating on God. True, we mean the words of the Hail Mary, but during the 10 Hail Mary’s of the mystery, we are thinking about the biblical mystery at hand, not the words of the Hail Mary. The 10 Hail Mary’s are kind of a beautiful musical background chant so as to focus our minds on the Mysteries.

If this is the purpose, then my focusing on Jesus (on any aspect of his life) without chanting the Hail Mary is just as beneficial as you praying the Rosary.

If what you’re doing does not have focus and meaning behind it (which it surely can’t if you’re focusing on something else as fully as you claim to be), there is no point in doing it.

At this point I would explain that it is a private devotion and is not required of anyone. Also, www.catholicity.com has a CD called “The Truth About Mary” that might be helpful.

There are no private interpretations. That means, there is no divinely revealed truth of a private nature – that applies to one person, but not to another. This implicitly would include devotions. Either a devotion to Mary is good and right with God, or it is not. If it is, then every true God-follower should be doing it. If it isn’t, then no one should be doing it. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. “Do it if you feel led to” is just leading toward moral relativism.

From what I understand, he would be OK with the Rosary if it was less Hail Mary and more Our Fathers/Jesus Prayers/etc. His problem is that you’re spending more time asking for Mary’s assistance than God.

I’d be curious to know if he would really be all right with that. Would he really pray such a thing ritually, every day? (I hope not.)

The rosary is a very useful tool. Some tend to think that tithing is limited to income only. Just God blesses one with a bountiful harvest or bountiful wages, God also blesses one with life.

God gives a person 24 hours of precious life in a day. It only fitting that one give a tithe of that precious life back to God in prayer. Give God 2.4 hours back in prayerful worship every day?

That is a tough cookie for most to swallow even in light of scripture that says we should be praying continuously…

Who says it has to be 2.4 hours of prayer? I mean, I’m praying fairly continuously, but I can’t honestly say I spend over two hours in prayer. I do, however, spend many an hour in Bible study.

 

[clmowry]

I like the method though I use different terms.

I shared on another thread the words I add to “…the fruit of your womb Jesus___” to help me focus on each mystery while praying the rosary.

Joyous

1. Incarnate Humble
2. Sanctifying Charitable
3. Emmanuel Poor
4. Redeemer Obedient
5. Teaching Pious

Luminous

1. Baptized The Baptized
2. Providing The Miraculous
3. Messiah The Good News
4. Transfigured The Chosen One
5. In the Eucharist The Bread of Live

Sorrowful

1. In the Garden Contrite
2. Scourged Purified
3. King of Kings Courageous
4. Taking my Cross Patient
5. Crucified Crucified

Glorious

1. Resurrected Our Faith
2. Lord of Lords Our Hope
3. Indwelling Our Love
4. Raising us up Our Future
5. Prince of Peace Our Brother
   (but I think PoP is better so I’m moving to that )

I also like the words used by The Marian Movement of Priests after each “Oh My Jesus.”
“Come Holy Spirit, Come by Means of the Powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.”

 

[davidv]

A good question indeed. And yet, I somehow doubt most Roman Catholics would accept this, being married to the form, and not the [supposed] function. Even so, would that not be just as guilty of falling into “vain repetitions” – that is, speech that is meant for no purpose except to inflate words?

Human’s are “married to forms” in many aspects of life. Form provides some manner of discipline to whatever activity it is applied. For example, Robert’s Rules of Orders provide for a level of discipline in public meetings.

Since when is discipline equated with vain repetition. This seems like a very big leap.

 

[guanophore]

I saw a few things which haven’t been really answered in the other Mary-related threads…

It comes to mind that none of your objections to the Marian doctrines will really be “answered”. You have already made up your mind what you believe, and your purpose here is to try to pursuade others to come to your point of view.

A good question indeed. And yet, I somehow doubt most Roman Catholics would accept this, being married to the form, and not the [supposed] function. Even so, would that not be just as guilty of falling into “vain repetitions” – that is, speech that is meant for no purpose except to inflate words?

So, you think the sinner that Jesus talked about in the temple, who humbly beat his breast, and prayed “lord, be merciful to me” was vain in his prayer?

In fact, if you’re supposed to be meditating on something else while praying the Hail Marys, you can’t truly be focusing on what you’re praying (just as if you’re working while listening to the radio, you can’t fully pay attention to both). Thus, the Hail Mary is almost admittedly vain repetitions.

This may be the case for you and me, PC,but it is not the case for millions of other people. Different types of prayers commend themselves to different personalities. Why must you criticize the prayerful devotions of others?

The holy spirit is said to be always interceding for us, in groanings that cannot be uttered. God also knows what we need before we do, and certainly before we ask it. Though the former is more likely a figure of speech (God doesn’t actually have need to “talk to himself”), it still clarifies the point – God knows our needs even if we can’t, or don’t, say anything.

So…why are you here saying anything?

If this is the purpose, then my focusing on Jesus (on any aspect of his life) without chanting the Hail Mary is just as beneficial as you praying the Rosary.

Absolutely, I am sure it can be.

If what you’re doing does not have focus and meaning behind it (which it surely can’t if you’re focusing on something else as fully as you claim to be), there is no point in doing it.

Careful here, PC, it sounds like you are judging others as yourself, and that you are condemning the faith practices of Catholics on this forum.

There are no private interpretations. That means, there is no divinely revealed truth of a private nature – that applies to one person, but not to another.

This is an incorrect statement. One example is found in Luke, where God instructed Joseph to take Mary as His wife. This was a private revelation by God to Joseph that applied only to him. Another is when God told him to take the family to Egypt.

This implicitly would include devotions. Either a devotion to Mary is good and right with God, or it is not. If it is, then every true God-follower should be doing it.

You are basing this erroneous conclusion on an erroneous foundation.

If it isn’t, then no one should be doing it. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. “Do it if you feel led to” is just leading toward moral relativism.

YOU should not do it, PC, because in your mind, it is “vain repetition” and a form of idolatry. If a person knows what is right to do, and does not do it, for him, it is a sin. therefore, refrain, and you will be right in the sight of God.

Who says it has to be 2.4 hours of prayer? I mean, I’m praying fairly continuously, but I can’t honestly say I spend over two hours in prayer. I do, however, spend many an hour in Bible study.

Keep it up!

 

[NonDenom]

**

The entire Rosary is directed towards God.

Each decade is, in fact, a mediatation on the life of Christ and other notable events of the gospel.

It’s as though we are asking the Blessed Mother to be our guide and walk us through that sacred history through which our salvation was attained for us.

Then why not call it the Godary? You call it one thing and then say it actually means this. It’s no wonder some people don’t understand Roman Catholisism. Why Pray to others (and Praying TO someone is different than asking someone to Pray FOR you) when you can go directly to God, is he to busy to answer all the Prayers that he needs someone else to take down Prayers for him?

And why not ask Christ to your guide, he is our Savior. It’s Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, and NO other.

 

[LilyM]

Then why not call it the Godary? You call it one thing and then say it actually means this. It’s no wonder some people don’t understand Roman Catholisism. Why Pray to others (and Praying TO someone is different than asking someone to Pray FOR you) when you can go directly to God, is he to busy to answer all the Prayers that he needs someone else to take down Prayers for him?

And why not ask Christ to your guide, he is our Savior. It’s Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, and NO other.

Ummm … it’s actually called the ROSARY - string of roses (each prayer being imagined as a beautiful rose). Ain’t like it’s called the ‘Maryary’ or anything

And no, the word ‘pray’ itself means ‘ask’, so there’s no difference between praying to someone and asking them to pray for you, or asking them for anything else either for that matter.

In the Supreme Court of the US, people ‘pray to’ the court for certain remedies. How is ‘praying to’ the court different to ‘praying to’ Mary (asking her to help us obtain certain favours just as you ask the Supreme Court judge, or for that matter your pastor or mother!)?