Defending when Christmas is celebrated

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Chanticleer said:
F.Y.I. It may be that J.W’s used to celebrate Christmas. If you google the phrase “Jehovah’s Witnesses celebrating Christmas” you will find photos of J.W’s at large Christmas banquets in 1919 and beyond. They seemed to have changed their minds about celebrating it. They even justified it at the time saying the actual unknown date of Christmas was not important but celebrating it was a Christian thing to do. I wonder if the J.W. early leaders who planned and attended the banquets unknowingly disqualified themselves from the 144,000 going to heaven?
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Hi!

…hey, don’t mess with the 144Ks–they leave out two parts 144K are 12K from each of the twelve tribes of Israel, and there are millions from all ends of the world that are dressed in the gown of the Lamb; also, they have started easing the 144K spin–I once checked one of their group leaders by my query: ‘…if the 144K are already known, why should I bother to do anything since I wont be going to Heaven?’ I think they brought it back to the drawing board… It has never been brought up, at least with me, again.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Tomdstone said:
I don’t see where Christmas trees were mentioned in the New Testament, so perhaps it is true.
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…the problem with that is that it makes it impossible to do anything… for instance, why aren’t pagans using a pagan calendar, after all, St. Gregory’s calendar is rooted in Christianity? …for that matter, shouldn’t Christians invent a calendar that does not have Sunday, Saturday, June, July, ect. on them since these are all of pagan origin?

…then there’s the services… hospitals and universities are of Catholic origins, should pagans refuse to become educated and receive health treatment because every time they enter a University/college or hospital/clinic they are using things of Catholic origins?

…and it does not end there… it was the Catholic Knights that created the banking system since it was they that founded the currency exchange and the credit-line, so should pagans stuff their mattresses with their moneys and purchase/exchange only from those who do not use the banking system which has its origins in a Catholic practice?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Winter is the most miserable time of the year. We need something to look forward to.
 
jcrichton said:
…the problem with that is that it makes it impossible to do anything… for instance, why aren’t pagans using a pagan calendar, after all, St. Gregory’s calendar is rooted in Christianity? …for that matter, shouldn’t Christians invent a calendar that does not have Sunday, Saturday, June, July, ect. on them since these are all of pagan origin?

…then there’s the services… hospitals and universities are of Catholic origins, should pagans refuse to become educated and receive health treatment because every time they enter a University/college or hospital/clinic they are using things of Catholic origins?

…and it does not end there… it was the Catholic Knights that created the banking system since it was they that founded the currency exchange and the credit-line, so should pagans stuff their mattresses with their moneys and purchase/exchange only from those who do not use the banking system which has its origins in a Catholic practice?

Maran atha!

Angel
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Who do you consider to be “pagans”?
 
Tomdstone said:
I don’t think so. I love the winter and the snow.
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Winter does have its romance but i wonder what your response would be if you had no choice and were forced to brave the elements of winter. There are those that do in fact need something to pull them through the harsh times. I love the winter too, but i love much more those things that get me through it like a warm home, thick socks, and hope that winter doesn’t last forever. 👍

Peace!!!
 
I would point out that a lot of Christians don’t even celebrate Christmas on 25th of December. 6th of January anyone?
 
adamhovey1988 said:
I would point out that a lot of Christians don’t even celebrate Christmas on 25th of December. 6th of January anyone?
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That’s just December 25 using the old Julian Calendar. The Julian calendar is an imperfect calculation of the solar year, so there’s a slow drift in dates in the solar year.
 
Wesrock said:
That’s just December 25 using the old Julian Calendar.
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So? What is the point? your comment really doesn’t prove or disprove anything and ultimately I don’t think it really matters when it celebrated. I should like to point out that there was not uniformly on the earliest celebrations of Christmas. I mean no offense but your comment doesn’t add anything to the discussion. I was discussing this with a Muslim friend of mine and I just said this is one we celebrated I said I have no idea when Jesus was born and I don’t pretend to know
 
adamhovey1988 said:
So? What is the point? your comment really doesn’t prove or disprove anything and ultimately I don’t think it really matters when it celebrated. I should like to point out that there was not uniformly on the earliest celebrations of Christmas. I mean no offense but your comment doesn’t add anything to the discussion. I was discussing this with a Muslim friend of mine and I just said this is one we celebrated I said I have no idea when Jesus was born and I don’t pretend to know
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Both east and west agree that Christmas is on December 25. That is my point. The difference is on which calendar should be used for liturgical purposes. If you’re only point is that “it might not be the exact same time of the solar year and that’s okay,” sure, but certainly the dating method of Christmas (and apparent differences and why) is germane to the discussion. If an atheist tries to say the west just adopted the pagan Yule by ‘moving’ Christmas to December 25 (Gregorian) because of the difference with the east in the date of celebration, knowing why there is a difference is entirely relevant. For this and for Easter.
 
Tommy999 said:
I come from a large family and have a sister who became a Jehovah’s Witness after marrying one. She claims that Christians who celebrate Christmas on Dec 25 are inaccurate and that Christmas was founded near a pagan holiday (Winter Solstice) and Christmas trees have pagan roots, no pun intended.

She claims that Jesus was most likely born in the spring. Her faith doesn’t even celebrate Christmas and just calls it “December 25th”. I especially feel sorry for her kids. For them it’s just another day.

I didn’t know how to respond to her except to say that even if what she says is true, it is an historical fact that Jesus was born, lived, and was crucified and died to redeem mankind from sin. When we celebrate his birth is not important, but that the Church must have a good reason for doing celebrating it when it does.

Just curious how Catholicism answers questions as why Christmas is celebrated on Dec 25 instead of some day in the spring.

Also, if you have any other material on this subject I would appreciate it as it relates to Christmas and dealing with Jehovah’s Witness objections to it.

Much appreciated.
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Christmas 25th December is 25th Kislev, Hannukah, Festival of Lights, Light has come into the world. Kislev is approx our month December. 25th and 25th is not a coincidence. It commemorates the rededication of the temple. Destroy this temple and in three days I will build it again.

Tree, a good place to hang lights. Tree of life, cross made from a tree. Origin is European Christian Germanic not pagan.
 
Tomdstone said:
Who do you consider to be “pagans”?
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Hi!
…I am following the post; my understanding of pagan is those who believe in multiple gods as well as those who do not believe in god–this term would also include those of hedonistic values/practices… I do prefer the Biblical term Gentile because it both separates those who do not believe in Yahweh God and includes all who practice all sorts of different values and philosophies… but the term does seems less forceful.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
adamhovey1988 said:
I would point out that a lot of Christians don’t even celebrate Christmas on 25th of December. 6th of January anyone?
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Hi, Adam!

…do you mean to say that they do not celebrate Christmas or that they do not celebrate Christmas on the 25th of Dec.?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
adamhovey1988 said:
I would point out that a lot of Christians don’t even celebrate Christmas on 25th of December. 6th of January anyone?
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No because the 7th of january in the new or Gregorian calendar is actually 25 of December in the old or Julian calendar which they are using.
 
Jan 6th is the epiphany. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Julian and Gregorian calendars. The two systems differ by a day every 100 years excluding the 10 century which would put the “calendar theory” pin pointed to a specific time of difference, the 14th century and only the 14th Century. Twelve days of Christmas ending with the presentation to Gentiles (the Magi).

In Egypt they celebrated in their own calendar on the 25th day of the 9th month. Just as Hannukah is the 25th day of the 9th month of the Jewish calendar.

So in two separate diverse calendar systems Egyptian and Latin, they both make a link to the original calendar system Jewish, in two different ways. The source of both calendar systems cannot be each other, they must have a common root, that is the Jewish calendar and it points to Hannukah.
 
Darryl_B said:
Jan 6th is the epiphany. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Julian and Gregorian calendars. The two systems differ by a day every 100 years excluding the 10 century which would put the “calendar theory” pin pointed to a specific time of difference, the 14th century and only the 14th Century. Twelve days of Christmas ending with the presentation to Gentiles (the Magi).

In Egypt they celebrated in their own calendar on the 25th day of the 9th month. Just as Hannukah is the 25th day of the 9th month of the Jewish calendar.

So in two separate diverse calendar systems Egyptian and Latin, they both make a link to the original calendar system Jewish, in two different ways. The source of both calendar systems cannot be each other, they must have a common root, that is the Jewish calendar and it points to Hannukah.
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Russian Orthodox Christians will celebrate Christmas Day on January 7 in the Gregorian calendar. This date works out to be December 25 in the Julian calendar.
 
Tomdstone said:
Russian Orthodox Christians will celebrate Christmas Day on January 7 in the Gregorian calendar. This date works out to be December 25 in the Julian calendar.
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No it does not. Please do some more research. Russian Orthodox Christians celebrate the epiphany, which is the revelation to the Gentiles. The Julian calendar was early Latin the Gregorian calendar adjusted the problem of the Julian Calendar, to which I have already mentioned. You do not use the Julian Calendar I do not use the Julian calendar the Catholic Church does not use the Julian calendar, we all use the Gregorian calendar.

I don’t know what you have read on the internet, but what you have read is wrong, because the calendars are almost the same, the Gregorian correcting to 365.2525 days from the Julian 365.25 days.

365.2522 is more accurate for the length of the year (at least it was when I were young 1980s).
 
Tommy999 said:
I come from a large family and have a sister who became a Jehovah’s Witness after marrying one. She claims that Christians who celebrate Christmas on Dec 25 are inaccurate and that Christmas was founded near a pagan holiday (Winter Solstice) and Christmas trees have pagan roots, no pun intended.

She claims that Jesus was most likely born in the spring. Her faith doesn’t even celebrate Christmas and just calls it “December 25th”. I especially feel sorry for her kids. For them it’s just another day.

I didn’t know how to respond to her except to say that even if what she says is true, it is an historical fact that Jesus was born, lived, and was crucified and died to redeem mankind from sin. When we celebrate his birth is not important, but that the Church must have a good reason for doing celebrating it when it does.

Just curious how Catholicism answers questions as why Christmas is celebrated on Dec 25 instead of some day in the spring.

Also, if you have any other material on this subject I would appreciate it as it relates to Christmas and dealing with Jehovah’s Witness objections to it.

Much appreciated.
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We don’t know the date of birth or death of Jesus. While it would be interesting to know it is irrelevant to our faith.
 
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