Defense for “Call no man father”

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anon65111186

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I was in a conversation with a non-denominational Christian and he pulled out the call no man father quote, in regard to priests. I asked if he called his dad Father, and he said that was different. I explained about spiritual fatherhood and all but he didn’t seem to get how that is compatible with scripture.

I wanted a stronger defense for that but couldn’t think of anything on the spot. What is the best answer to “call no man father” and calling priests “father”.?
 
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That’s great, thank you! Basically, even Peter and Paul were called father and called their disciples sons and daughters.

And they did so after Jesus supposedly told them not to, but then again he didn’t really say we shouldn’t call spiritual leaders father.
 
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Ask if he takes every passage in the bible literally. Ask him, Do you literally believe if your right hand offend you, chop it off? NO? Do you literally believe that when Jesus held up the bread and said “This is my body”, do you really truly believe it is His actual body? NO? When Paul said women should shut up in church, do you take that literally? NO? Then why do you take the “father” thing literally? Do you always cherry-pick the scriptures like that? 😁 Put the ball in his court.

Jesus called Abraham “Father Abraham” many times. Mary, after finding young Jesus in the temple, said to Him, “Your father and I have been anxiously looking for you!” Notice Jesus didn’t rebuke her for that. Jesus also didn’t rebuke His apostles when they called Him “Rabbi” even though He also said not to call anyone “Rabbi”.
 
Yes, and he should be asked why he doesn’t take the sixth chapter of John’s gospel (Unless you eat my Body and drink my blood you will not have life within you - verse 53) literally…
 
Hi, Timothy!

Consider St. Paul’s (who is their favorite or only resource) testimony:
2 To Timothy my true son in the faith:
Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord. (1 Timothy 1)
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…and
19 My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you, 20 how I wish I could be with you now and change my tone, because I am perplexed about you! (Galatians 4)
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Can man really get childbirth pains? Why is St. Paul calling other Christians “his” children, is he not aware that Jesus forbade calling anyone “father?”

Non-Catholics reject the Church’s Authority and the Church’s history while embracing their own authority (self) or that of their sect’s/group’s founder/s and the reconditioned history that they have created.

It is somewhat simplistic to reject Church Doctrine (such as terms and Biblical Canon) while claiming the “Doctrine” that they determine are “correct.”

They make void even Christ’s own Word in order to bend Church Doctrine and history to reflect their own interpretations (or their founder/s). They reject the Word of God while professing to accept only the Word of God.

Basically it is an operation in a vacuum where only their own interpretation is flawlessly truthful and “apostolic.”

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Your friend needs to understand what Jesus was talking about when he said call no man “father, teacher, or master.” Please note that he had just finished dealing with the Pharisees who had improperly tried to test him(see Matt 22:41 thru 23:7).

During the time of Jesus, there were a number of sects within Judaism. The main sects were the Pharisees, Saducees, Essenes, and Zealots. These sects had houses of teaching within them, and each had a leader.

Within the Pharisees there were two famous rival houses. They were the House of Shammai(Beit Shammai) and the House of Hillel (founder of the Beit Hillel school). The individuals that these houses were named after were considered the “father” of the house.

Jesus warns the apostles not to be fathers to “separate” houses for there is but one house of the Lord. Jesus also says to call no man “teacher” or “master.”

The apostle, Paul, was taught by Gamaliel[Acts22:3], a pharisee from the house of Hillel. Gamaliel was, in fact, the grandson of Hillel. Gamaliel was known as an elder and had the title of “Rabban” which means “Our Master.” This title explains why Jesus also said call no one “master”, for there is but one house and one master of all.

Again, Jesus wanted unity [see John 17], and does not want the apostles to set up separate houses or schools of thought. The corollary of this is clearly expressed in Paul’s complaint in 1 Cor 1:10-15 where some are arguing their superiority by being baptized by, and belonging to, Paul vs. Apollos, or Cephas, etc. Paul goes on elsewhere to further warn against factions and divisions, and stresses the importance of one mind and unity of doctrine.

The meaning of “call no man father, teacher, or master” concerns unity and consistency of doctrine and has nothing to do with the commonly used references that are seen elsewhere in scripture or everyday use. Most importantly, it has nothing to do with Catholics calling a priest “father.” The apostle Paul calls himself, the “father” of Timothy and there are numerous examples in the NT where someone is referred to as “father” subsequent to Jesus statement in Matthew. It is all about context and what Jesus intended for the apostles. Hopefully, what has been provided will be helpful in that regards.
 
I fully concur!

As I understand it, Jesus was speaking against the practice of the “Masters” of the Law to place themselves above the people of God; this is the same worldover where man wants to be seen as the best and to be honor by other men; the Rabbis would were adornments, demand the best placements in the affairs of the townships and family gatherings (recall Jesus’ warning to not be eager to sit in the “honor” place at banquets?) and they “lorded” the “imagery” of spiritual father over the people–that is Jesus’ Warning: ‘Call no man, “Father,” for Only One, in Heaven, is your Father.’

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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Thanks for the kind words.

Yours in Christ Jesus Cucified,

Pete
 
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Well, Scripture also says not to call anyone teacher so you had better tell your friend to never ever call a man “doctor” because one of it’s meanings is teacher
 
Oh yeah, I once told my Protestant mom that if Enoch was assumed into heaven then why would it be so hard to believe that Mary could have been too? She replied “that’s different”. But gave no explanation. I am guessing your friend did not give much of a explanation about how calling his father “father” is different.
 
In that same speech, Jesus said to call no one rabbi, because we have one teacher- yet in the Great Commission, He instructs the apostles to do exactly a teacher’s job: teach.

Jesus was using hyperbole to make a point against pride.
 
“With respect to the objection that we should not call anyone on earth father, it must be said that father means the one who transmits a nature and that teacher means the one who communicates knowledge. And since it is God alone who originally grants a nature and bestows knowledge, then both names, namely, father and teacher, must be attributed to God, and not to another, as the beginning principle both of knowledge and nature and consequently as the original authority. But since God also effects these matters outside himself through the ministry of human beings, it follows that both of these names, as they refer to ministry, can be applied to human beings, not as the principal or originating agent, but as an administrator.” (St. Bonaventure, Disputed Questions on Evangelical Perfection; q. 4, art. 3: Rep to neg. 2)
 
anon65111186 said:
I asked if he called his dad Father, and he said that was different.
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You are right to ask that question, and no it is not different, just declaring different does not make it so. Non-denominationals do have fathers, they just don’t call them that, they call them pastors, however they do not provide them with the same respect, because if a non-denominational has to choose between their own understanding and their father pastors understanding, they will choose their own understanding. Therefore a non-denominational is essentially their own father. I confess to having been there myself, and it is a place you cannot hope to remain before something crashes.
 
Darryl_B said:
however they do not provide them with the same respect, because if a non-denominational has to choose between their own understanding and their father pastors understanding, they will choose their own understanding. Therefore a non-denominational is essentially their own father. I confess to having been there myself, and it is a place you cannot hope to remain before something crashes.
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Hi, Darryl!
The qualifier is “authority.”

The Catholic understanding of the Priest (Father) is that he acts in persona Christi/Christos–the Priest (the man) has no authority onto himself but Officiates for Christ; non-Catholics actually take upon themselves not the title but the authority–each person, in effect (as you’ve noted), become their own authority (father/mother); hence, when their denominational’s (or non-d, as today we often hear) leader (pastor/elder, etc.) teaches or opinions differently then their own personal conviction (which they then apply to “conscience”) they can quit that group and join other/s or even start their own “church.”

Maran atha!

Angel
 
My friend, I agree, but at the very heart of the question, is what has made our society so anti-authoritarian? I do see that our 20th Century history has lead many people to believe that any form of authority is by nature inherently evil. It was a dark period of bad authority. Unfortunately the Catholic Church gets painted with the same brush, through the same lens of perception, lumped like coals, and the reaction, through no fault of the Catholic Church is “me and Jesus”. I trust me, I trust Jesus, I trust no-one else. And in persona Christi, gets thrown by the wayside. The result is loneliness on our quest. This is often converted into over-enthusiasm, preaching the “me and Jesus” message with fire, just so we can feel some connection with Heaven.
 
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