Defense for “Call no man father”

[Lea101]

One of my favorite human beings, lol!

 

[Darryl_B]

I would also add that “sola scriptura” produces the same thing. It produces a perception that here I am alone with this book. This in ways helped fuel the “Holy Spirit movement”, as that too became a way of connecting with Heaven.

Historically the Catholic Church has had no problem connecting with Heaven, yet many evangelical non-denominational pentecostals do. For the Catholic there is the Eucharist, there is the Priest, in persona Christi, there is the promise “I am with you even to the end of the age”, there is Pentecost.

 

[JoshuaIsLord]

He also forbade them to call a person Master, even though a good number of Protestant Pastors were slave owners in days gone by. They had their slaves call them Master.

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

what has made our society so anti-authoritarian

The Protestant revolution, the so called Age of Enlightenment, the American and French revolutions.

 

[jcrichton]

Hi, Darryl!

…what I find interesting is that, if we look into history with honesty and a real sense of questing for the truth, we will find the Church at the heart of most of the “rights” and “liberties” that we presently enjoy. In the US we have people getting paid a massive amount of money for very little production, with medical, worker’s comp, and other amenities–these people go home at 5 pm or earlier and get up at the crack of 8 or 7 am… our past (world’s) was so different; people had no “rights” and often they would labor upwards of 20 hours per day for little more than a meal and a few pennies.

I’ve known some non-Catholics that ignore the origin of a “just war.” They hold it as “evidence” of how bad the Catholic Church is/has been. What they fully ignore is that people went to war on a drop of a hat (or some equally miniscule reason)–that the masses suffered both at the hands of the invading/fighting army and their own monarchs and that human shields/pawns was nothing but a strategy to be used by both friend and foe. Only through the efforts of the Church did most of the outrageous and barbaric warring mechanisms were put to rest (this can be verified both in historical accounts and evidenced by those states where the Church has been exiled/eradicated/kept from contributing to the betterment of society).

So it is the misunderstanding of Church Doctrine–those who object to the Church’s Authority are blinded by their own inability to see that “me/my group” is the actually a replacement authority for what Christ Delegated and Founded.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

“I am with you even to the end of the age”,

Exactly!

Someone once said that you cannot miss what you’ve never had. Sadly, when it comes to our spiritual beings that is not the case–we do miss what Christ and the Holy Spirit Labored to Construct. When we go it alone (without being part of the Body of Christ) everything we personally judge to be “the truth” or “the light” becomes the guiding force in our spiritual trek.

This often brings me to Christ’s Word on the Cross: “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.”

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Gorgias]

Well, Scripture also says not to call anyone teacher

In that same speech, Jesus said to call no one rabbi

He also forbade them to call a person Master

He also said not to call anyone “Rabbi”.

Uh-oh… time for some folks to go back and actually read the Bible that they’re “quoting”!

Actually, Jesus says none of these things! (I’ll let you go back and see what He really says! It’s the Gospel of the day today, so you can easily enough find it by going to the USCCB website…)

Here’s the thing: Jesus has just gotten done telling the crowd and His disciples that the Pharisees are only interested in receiving honors. That’s the sin of pride in all its ‘glory.’ So, by telling them “call no man ‘father’”, He’s actually telling them “hey! don’t lead the Pharisees into temptation!”

 

[KevinK]

I thought basic Catholic doctrine is that “this is my body” literally means it is Jesus’ actual body. Isn’t that what transubstantiation is? You are also “cherry picking” in deciding what is to be taken literally.

 

[Thom18]

Uh-oh… time for some folks to go back and actually read the Bible that they’re “quoting”!

Actually, Jesus says none of these things!

Matthew 23 starts, “Then said Jesus to the crowds and to his disciples”, followed by everything we said, so, yes, Jesus did say those things.

 

[JoshuaIsLord]

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi(teacher): for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

 

[JoshuaIsLord]

Mat 23:8 But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master: and all you are brethren.
Mat 23:9 And call none your father upon earth; for one is your father, who is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, Christ.

 

[JoshuaIsLord]

And ye—ye may not be called Rabbi, for one is your director—the Christ, and all ye are brethren;
Mat 23:9 and ye may not call any your father on the earth, for one is your Father, who is in the heavens,
Mat 23:10 nor may ye be called directors, for one is your director—the Christ.

 

[BoomerangToo]

Ummm, I think you misread my post. I believe in transubstantiation. I’m not cherry-picking or deciding anything. I believe in Church teaching.

 

[Gorgias]

followed by everything we said, so, yes, Jesus did say those things.

Nope. Watch what’s getting quoted back to me…

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi(teacher)
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters

See? It’s not “call no man ‘rabbi’” or “call no man ‘master’”, as ya’ll have claimed. It’s “don’t let yourself be called ‘rabbi’” and “don’t let yourself be called ‘master’”.

The only one in which He says “call no man…” is father.

QED.

Reading. It’s fundamental.

 

[JoshuaIsLord]

See? It’s not “call no man ‘rabbi’” or “call no man ‘master’”, as ya’ll have claimed. It’s “don’t let yourself be called ‘rabbi’” and “don’t let yourself be called ‘master’”.

The inference is to “Call no one Master, Teacher, or Father”.

Ergo, If one is not allowed to be called Master or Rabbi, then it is more forbidden to call others Master or Rabbi.

 

[Gorgias]

The inference is to “Call no one Master, Teacher, or Father”.

Well… that’s your inference.

The statement is “don’t allow yourself to be called ‘master’ or ‘teacher’.”

Since He was talking about the excesses of pride in the Pharisees, He raises the bar even higher for the ‘father’ directive: in order to avoid scandal vis-a-vis the Pharisees, Jesus tells us not to call anyone father.

And, yes… I’m picking nits.

 

[JoshuaIsLord]

And, yes… I’m picking nits.

nits are pesky creatures.

 

[Thom18]

It’s not “call no man ‘rabbi’” or “call no man ‘master’”, as ya’ll have claimed. It’s “don’t let yourself be called ‘rabbi’” and “don’t let yourself be called ‘master’”.

The only one in which He says “call no man…” is father.

Reading. It’s fundamental.

I agree, reading is fundamental- so is reading comprehension.

What makes it okay for you to call someone rabbi, but not for someone else to call you rabbi? Why do you think it’s fine to call someone master, but not be addressed as such yourself? And why is it okay for others to call you father, but you can’t use the term for others?

 

[Gorgias]

What makes it okay for you to call someone rabbi, but not for someone else to call you rabbi? Why do you think it’s fine to call someone master, but not be addressed as such yourself? And why is it okay for others to call you father, but you can’t use the term for others?

Because, we’re hoping, that you understand what you mean when you call someone ‘teacher’ or ‘master’, but you want to make sure that others aren’t doing so with the wrong idea when they do so.

But hey… if you know better than Jesus, I’ll listen to you rather than to Him…

 

[Thom18]

I don’t recall claimimg to know better than Jesus