Definition of faith: Catholic and Protestant

[mcq72]

Would it be safe, then, to assume you do not believe that Christ, in His Supper, was literal when He said, “this is my body”?

Correct assumption, at least not in terms of trans or consubstantiation…but it definitely it is His body somehow, at the very least and maybe most, representative. And for sure the bread is still bread and the wine “fruit of the vine”, and the central theme of the rite/ritual/remembrance became “thanksgiving” (eucharist), not literal transformation/ re-presenting/repropitiating. As far as any reception of Him, it would be along lines of a spiritual one, as in Calvary identification, and “He inhabits the praises of His people”…etc.,etc…lol…we could go on and on, as other threads have shown on this topic, and we be heirs of the Luther, Calvin and Zwingli “discussion”.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

CC says other churches offer and have salvation, with the caveat that it is due to and showing unity to CC.

Sort of, but not actually. There is no salvation outside the Catholic church.
Good article here that goes in depth pretty well:

Is There Really "No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church?" | Catholic Answers Magazine

 

[MagdalenaRita]

What you seem to be missing though is that for Methodists doing good works and growing in holiness is part of salvation. It is not the cause of salvation, but it is nonetheless part of salvation. Part of “going on to perfection” is becoming more perfect.

You keep wanting to limit Protestant soteriology to justification, and I’m not sure why because Protestants don’t. The link the the UMC dedicates an entire paragraph to sanctification:

I think we are going around in circles, maybe. I completely understand what you are saying. I am not trying to limit protestant soteriology to just justification, or at least Methodists. I understand there is a growth in holiness, santification. Different denominations have different understanding on how that sanctification happens. (the more mainline the protestant denomination, the more similarities there are to Catholicism).

I was just trying to point out that “the cause” of salvation (justification) is viewed differently, either faith alone or faith and works. Also I am just pointing out that how God views our works (sanctification) has a different understanding between Catholics and protestants.

This article isn’t perfect, I’m sure, but I think it just shows the differences among denominations. Catholicism is the only one that sees good works as meritorious. The only thing it didn’t mention for Catholics, is that it is by grace we are moved to do these meritorious works, as grace is needed for everyone to do good. (just thought I would add that last part in case someone misunderstood and thought I was saying Catholics earn salvation through works alone because we do not).

https://www.thoughtco.com/comparing-christian-denominations-beliefs-part-2-700538

 

[crusadermanj]

So how to you combat someone who always plays the “God understands” card. Especially when it comes to being a reason to miss Mass?

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Pray for them

 

[mrsdizzyd]

I’m sorry you were taught so poorly because you certainly haven’t represented Methodism well when discussing what Protestants believe.

No, I said you were apparently poorly catechized if a Lutheran setting didn’t teach you the necessity of good works.

And I’m truly disappointed in the poor catechesis you received.

I think that @MagdalenaRita has been treated quite unfairly in this thread.

Focus on the points raised not the people. There is no need for personal attacks which try to characterize the extent of her education.

 

[JonNC]

ltwin:

I’m sorry you were taught so poorly because you certainly haven’t represented Methodism well when discussing what Protestants believe.

No, I said you were apparently poorly catechized if a Lutheran setting didn’t teach you the necessity of good works.

And I’m truly disappointed in the poor catechesis you received.

I think that @MagdalenaRita has been treated quite unfairly in this thread.

Focus on the points raised not the people. There is no need for personal attacks which try to characterize the extent of her education.

None of these posts are personal attacks! Based on her description of how the teaching of the importance of works was omitted from her instruction in a Lutheran setting, it was obvious The catechesis was poor. That’s not an attack on @MagdalenaRita.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

I’m sorry, Jon, but I disagree. Focus on arguments not people.

You could have said all you had to say without characterizing her catechisis.

 

[JonNC]

I didn’t focus on her. If it was a focus on people, it was on the pastor who poorly catechized. Catechesis is the responsibility of the pastor.

 

[TULIPed]

One part of our faith Protestants and Catholics can all agree upon is how thankful we are for that baby in a manger on a starlit night long ago in Bethlehem.

Merry Christmas everyone!

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Very true. Merry Christmas to you also.

 

[mcq72]

Sort of, but not actually. There is no salvation outside the Catholic church.
Good article here that goes in depth pretty well:

this is where I may be inferring from:

“This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him. Nevertheless, many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside its visible confines. Since these are gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, they are forces impelling towards Catholic unity.”…Section 8

adding that by CC rulings “other” (non Catholic) baptisms are valid, the beginning sign of justification and sanctification.

 

[tweedlealice]

Did my comment seem arrogant?I think you liked my thoughts.
Your comment on arrogant , judgemental, etc. is related to others w arrogance & judgemental feelings.??
Thank you
Have a Blessed New Year
Tweedlealice

 

[Wannano]

Did my comment seem arrogant?I think you liked my thoughts.
Your comment on arrogant , judgemental, etc. is related to others w arrogance & judgemental feelings.??
Thank you
Have a Blessed New Year
Tweedlealice

Hi, can you refresh my memory by telling me which post number you may be referring to?

 

[fbl9]

Hi, can you refresh my memory by telling me which post number you may be referring to?

Hi Wanno… If you click on your icon that is the top right corner of tweedlalice’s post , The post tweedle replied to will be shown.

 

[tweedlealice]

All right! Learning experience here. I didn’t pay attention that notes have numbers? HMMM
Anyway, it’s OK. If I find it, I’ll get back at ‘cha.
Blessed New Year.

 

[Wannano]

Did my comment seem arrogant?I think you liked my thoughts.
Your comment on arrogant , judgemental, etc. is related to others w arrogance & judgemental feelings.??
Thank you
Have a Blessed New Year
Tweedlealice

Hi,Good morning…Yes that was a learning experience for me too. Guess I am showing my age when it comes to computerization.

I absolutely now remember your post and loving it. I meant for comments to be reflective of the behavior of all Christians whether Catholic or not.

The fact that the Catholic Church holds fast to the premise that they are the one true Church does make it difficult because that causes the non-Catholic to either then conclude “yes you are, or well, I don’t really think that is quite correct”. My current church experience is this: we winter in Arizona and have made friends within a small church that when push comes to shove would determine that their particular catagorization within their denomination would be the one true result of really understanding the teaching of the Bible. We love these people for their testimony, lifestyle and acceptance of us even though they know full well that we will never join them. The big difference between these people and a lot of the Catholics on CAF is that they do not use their determination of being “the one true church” as a trump card in discussions. They acept us as being one of them without expectation. It does appear that the Catholic Church is slowly moving toward a softer stance in the acceptance of other Christians. My understanding is that the CC determines that any good virtue, any real means of legitimate salvation within the Protestant churches is only a truth passed through the CC. I can see that this softening makes it hard for Trad’s who see this as lukewarmness. I really wish we could all realize that we do agree on the central beliefs concerning Christ and that we could freely allow others to respond to the call of Christ on their lives in varying ways that Jesus is obviously accepting throughout the world, without casting dispersion on each other.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

Hi, can you refresh my memory by telling me which post number you may be referring to?

Hi Wanno… If you click on your icon that is the top right corner of tweedlalice’s post , The post tweedle replied to will be shown.

Almost embarrassing that I was missing something so simple. Thanks!

 

[fbl9]

Hi, can you refresh my memory by telling me which post number you may be referring to?

Almost embarrassing that I was missing something so simple. Thanks!

By the way the new CAF does not really have individual posts numbered like the old CAF
I learned/realized all this because of your question.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

Hi, can you refresh my memory by telling me which post number you may be referring to?

Almost embarrassing that I was missing something so simple. Thanks!

By the way the new CAF does not really have individual posts numbered like the old CAF
I learned/realized all this because of your question.

Can’t remember the old caf but I have numbers on the right side of my screen but sometimes they do not line up properly.