Defunding Planned Parenthood. Will it succeed?

[GodLovesTheSpek]

To answer the topic’s question: Yes, the defunding will succeed. It might not be now, it might take a long time but it will be defunded. We can do our best, now, to defund it with the help of God. If not, eventually, God will simply defund it for us.

In either case, there will be many who will wish that money had never been invented.

 

[bhall0689]

I’m not Catholic, but I’m pro life. I go to Planned Parenthood for my pap smears because I can’t afford to go anywhere else. I live on about $75 a week. The ladies at PP have been so good to me; they’ve supported me through tough times. I’m so thankful for the cheap medical care and emotional support I’ve received. Now I will no longer be able to get extremely cheap pap smears.

By the way, PP receives NO FEDERAL FUNDING FOR ABORTIONS.

 

[bhall0689]

In either case, there will be many who will wish that money had never been invented.

???

 

[Personanongrata]

I’m not Catholic, but I’m pro life. I go to Planned Parenthood for my pap smears because I can’t afford to go anywhere else. I live on about $75 a week. The ladies at PP have been so good to me; they’ve supported me through tough times. I’m so thankful for the cheap medical care and emotional support I’ve received. Now I will no longer be able to get extremely cheap pap smears.

By the way, PP receives NO FEDERAL FUNDING FOR ABORTIONS.

Don’t worry. Planned Parenthood is not going anywhere. Women simply will not allow that to happen.

 

[Elizabeth502]

png,
(I do love your screen name)

I think the problem is a little bit complex. I appreciate your own stance, because I, too, utilized PP as a young woman working only part-time and needing a gyn exam (not needing or wanting contraceptives). There was a male doctor on staff who was absolutely the most fantastic gynecologist on the planet. Talk about bedside manner: gentle, respectful, and put me completely at ease, not to mention being amazingly skilled & knowledgeable.

In terms of non-abortive services PP does perform an important function. Unfortunately, however, their mission is much broader than that, and includes the explicit purpose of enabling young, unmarried women to become sexually active. They are activist and assumptive about young sexuality outside of wedlock. And the important implication about that is that it is the young unmarried female population that most represents the abortion statistics.

 

[GlendaTheGood]

Just because you don’t SEE rich, non-minority women going into their private facilities in Beverly Hills, to have an abortion, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen there. Why do you not make their lives miserable? Why do you only target the poor? Are they any less important than the rich? I don’t think so.

As for your question – I support Planned Parenthood because I believe they do the most good for the working poor. If you don’t need their services, then don’t go there. But don’t stand in the way of someone who does. You simply don’t have the right to deny health care services to someone else, just because they don’t share your faith.

I feel that this post needs to be re-posted as a voice of concern and reason. I appreciate the poster’s viewpoint and agree 100%.

Any individual’s vote or opinion should be based upon his or her own moral code. One should vote for something, not against something simply because it is considered contrary to one’s personal moral code. Taking into account that Catholics believe their moral code is The Only Guide To Correct Living, I submit that the world is bigger than Catholicism. No malice intended, just trying to add perspective to a world-wide dilemma.

 

[GlendaTheGood]

There are 800 Planned Parenthoods, there are 7000 federally qualified health centers which do not do abortion, which offer comprehensive health care for women, men, pediatric care, vision centers, dental services, pharmaceutical services. Planned Parenthood can only offer limited health care, not comprehensive health care.

These 7000 federally qualified health centers offering free assistance to many underprivileged people.

Of those served over 90% are below 200% poverty and approximately 67% are racial & ethnic minorities: apa.org/about/gr/issues/chc/fqhc.aspx

“Many underprivileged people.” How many?

Care to provide cost comparisons for those women who do not qualify for free assistance and who do not have medical insurance?

 

[GlendaTheGood]

It is true that PP has racist roots. Margaret Sanger initially wanted to use contraception to prevent black women from having children, because the black population would increase:

Margaret Sanger’s December 19, 1939 letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble, 255 Adams Street, Milton, Massachusetts.

History introduces us to popes who engaged in criminal and/or immoral behaviors. Their viewpoints and campaigns do not necessarily represent those of the Catholic Church of 2011. By the same token, Sanger’s viewpoints and alleged strategies at the turn of the Twentieth Century do not necessarily represent or influence Planned Parenthood of 2011.

 

[Personanongrata]

png,
(I do love your screen name)

I think the problem is a little bit complex. I appreciate your own stance, because I, too, utilized PP as a young woman working only part-time and needing a gyn exam (not needing or wanting contraceptives). There was a male doctor on staff who was absolutely the most fantastic gynecologist on the planet. Talk about bedside manner: gentle, respectful, and put me completely at ease, not to mention being amazingly skilled & knowledgeable.

In terms of non-abortive services PP does perform an important function. Unfortunately, however, their mission is much broader than that, and includes the explicit purpose of enabling young, unmarried women to become sexually active. They are activist and assumptive about young sexuality outside of wedlock. And the important implication about that is that it is the young unmarried female population that most represents the abortion statistics.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I do not agree with yours. I doubt that most women will agree with you.

You do not have the right to tell other women where to go for reproductive health care services, which include abortion.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I do not agree with yours. I doubt that most women will agree with you.

You do not have the right to tell other women where to go for reproductive health care services, which include abortion.

Show me once where on this thread or anywhere else on CAF, I ever claimed:

the right to tell other women where to go for reproductive health care services, which include abortion

 

[mcteague]

Show me once where on this thread or anywhere else on CAF, I ever claimed:

Didn’t you in an earlier post say you would support outlawing artificial contraception?

 

[Apollos5600]

I’m not Catholic, but I’m pro life. I go to Planned Parenthood for my pap smears because I can’t afford to go anywhere else. I live on about $75 a week. The ladies at PP have been so good to me; they’ve supported me through tough times. I’m so thankful for the cheap medical care and emotional support I’ve received. Now I will no longer be able to get extremely cheap pap smears.

By the way, PP receives NO FEDERAL FUNDING FOR ABORTIONS.

And yet you can afford internet and a computer. Unless you’re at the library of course.

The post that demonstrated the existence of MANY OTHER organizations that offer the same services but without the support of abortion should be acknowledged. Of course, it will not, because the politics of PP overwhelms evidence to the truth of their crimes.

As for me, the Church’s condemnation of contraceptives is the only thing I needed to know.

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

Everyone has Free Will. Everyone is permitted to misuse Free Will to do Evil.

No one has the right to do Evil and that includes people who may attempt to deceive others to do Evil. The definitions of Evil are not from “belief systems”, “man-made laws”, “feelings” or “the times”.

Those who have been revealed The Truth more is expected than “belief systems”, “man-made laws”, “feelings”, or “the times” – they must try to discourage those deceived into contemplating or doing Evil.

If the attempt to discourage The Deceived is unsuccessful, offer it to Truth and move on – others may be awaiting for Truth to be conveyed.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Didn’t you in an earlier post say you would support outlawing artificial contraception?

No. That is a distortion of what I said. Here is what I said:

I would support a national campaign to restrict contraception access or regulate it in some manner – certainly to minors, which i.m.o. is completely inappropriate from both a relgiious and secular perspective. But I, and you, and the entire Catholic Church, are wasting a lot of time to focus on denied or restricted access to contraception for adults, because there is no national mandate for this. And in the meantime, lots of unplanned children are dying while a futile strategy is being suggested, and/or endless complaints are being introduced about the evils of contraception. And to what end? You and I can complain, but the contraception ship in the United States of America sailed about 50 years ago.

Further, to get the complete context of what I said, you need to review the entire post.

And what I absolutely did not say, and was rudely attributed without justification to me, was this:

[You do not have the right to tell other women where to go for reproductive health care services, which include abortion.

I will challenge you and that poster to quote the post in which I said such a thing. And what’s always interesting to me on CAF is when posters rudely and hastily read the very last post, jump on that poster for statements that last poster did not make, rather than focusing on statements that were made by other posters representing sometimes strong or even extreme views.
[/quote]

 

[mcteague]

No. That is a distortion of what I said. Here is what I said:

Further, to get the complete context of what I said, you need to review the entire post.

And what I absolutely did not say, and was rudely attributed without justification to me, was this:

I will challenge you and that poster to quote the post in which I said such a thing. And what’s always interesting to me on CAF is when posters rudely and hastily read the very last post, jump on that poster for statements that last poster did not make, rather than focusing on statements that were made by other posters representing sometimes strong or even extreme views.

Please note that I phrased my post as a question not as a statement of fact. Your position is not as extreme as I had remembered. However I do not agree that restricting access from teenagers would be a particularly good idea.
I think many Catholics here would be wise to apply Henry Drumond’s line in “Inherit the wind” to this issue. “The bible is a very good book. But it is not the only book”
Abortion is an important issue. But …

 

[Personanongrata]

Show me once where on this thread or anywhere else on CAF, I ever claimed:

Let me rephrase-- You and I do not have the right to tell other women where to go for reproductive health care services, which include abortion.
Is that better?

 

[Elizabeth502]

Let me rephrase-- You and I do not have the right to tell other women where to go for reproductive health care services, which include abortion.
Is that better?

No. Here’s what’s “better,” because it’s the only version that is accurate and truthful. And anyone surveying the posts with any care will see that this is obvious:

“Gardenman, Catholic1954, Labarum, hxcCatholic413, TimothyH, GodLovestheSpek, and Apollos5600 do not have the right to tell other women where to go for reproductive health care services, which include abortion. Their posts, not Elizabeth502’s, at least implied, and in some cases stated, that PP should be absolutely opposed (including defunding) despite the combination of services provided. Those posters might believe they have the moral right to tell all American women where they may and may not go for reproductive health care services, including legalized abortion. However, until abortion is declared illegal, they will find a tough fight in the Congress and the courts, because such opposition will not be considered on solid legal ground by the public.”

“Elizabeth, on the other hand, stated specifically in multiple posts on this thread that she does not believe that contraception per se is the “root” of abortion, and she provided references for those beliefs, which corrobate them. She further refrained from even once suggesting remotely that adult women should be forbidden from accessing legally available medical services.”

So there was nothing in there about the fictional ‘you and I’ not telling women where to go or not go. Speak for yourself if you feel guilty. I do not because I know I neither said nor implied any such thing. All you’re trying to do now is cover your tracks rather than own up to your misrepresentation.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Please note that I phrased my post as a question not as a statement of fact. Your position is not as extreme as I had remembered. However I do not agree that restricting access from teenagers would be a particularly good idea.
I think many Catholics here would be wise to apply Henry Drumond’s line in “Inherit the wind” to this issue. “The bible is a very good book. But it is not the only book”
Abortion is an important issue. But …

Then since you now acknowledge that my position is not extreme, perhaps you would like to address your non-responsive comments about the Bible, which do not pertain to my posts, to those whose positions are more extreme than mine, which include at least 7 posters on this very thread. (Wait: their posts also did not mention the Bible.) Hmmm.

You know, there are at least two people on this thread that would do extremely well to learn the following rules of debate, which are also referred to in the forum rules:
–stick to the concepts that are actually being debated
–do not attribute ideas & beliefs to posters who do not express those
–actually read what you write before you submit it, including noticing whether what you claim has even been stated by the person to whom you attirbute it.

 

[Rence]

Given the recent exposes of Planned Parenthood and the attention it has garnered, do you think we can be successful in once and for all DE-funding this organization ? What more will it take for the people of this country to finally say “enough is enough” and demand that our tax dollars not go to promoting this oragnizations horrific agenda?

I don’t think it’s going to be easy to get rid of PP. First of all, people (and women) have enjoyed sex without consequences for a while now, and taking that freedom away from them isn’t going to be easy. They’re not going to go down without a fight, that’s for sure. It’s hard to reign in people when they’ve already been given the freedom to do as they please. And they don’t see the damage they do to themselves, and you just can’t force them to see it.

In addition, many women are using PP for their non-abortive (meaning, excluding abortion) services. Yes, there are other resources available, but not everywhere and not to everyone. Sometimes PP accesses people who can’t get these services elsewhere, and for the same economic pricing. And yes, that’s important to some people. You can harp all day about how insignificant it is compared to abortion, but when it comes out of someone else’s pocket, your words won’t have the same bite.

People in general are really in control of what PP offers. If more people would use their services other than abortion, then they would offer abortion less. People must realize that services are offered on a supply:demand basis. The reason why they do so many abortions is because people want them. So basically, targeting PP is useless if you don’t find a way to change the minds of the women who are seeking abortions from them.

With regards to PP’s other services, despite the rules of the Catholic Church forbidding the use of contraceptives, one must remember that this rule isn’t recognized by people who don’t recognize the authority of the Church and the U.S. is a big place with many peoples, not just Catholics. And PP is there for everyone. Contraceptives are not going to go away. They will be available, because women enjoy the freedom of being sexually active without consequences. That’s not going to go away easily.

As long as PP provides services that are wanted by consumers, it will continue to be there, and will continue to be funded. Maybe their abortion services may someday be limited, and especially for minors, but they will still continue to get funds as long as they service the community, and like it or not, they do serve the community…they just don’t serve the community in a way that is compliant with Church rules.

My advice is to stop fighting with PP, because it’s the clients of PP that you want to reach. If you want to stop PP from performing abortions, stop their clients from seeking them. So what if PP gets shut down? what then? Well, the clients will go elsewhere, and believe me there will always be someone to offer services that are in high demand. PP wouldn’t offer them if there were no clients asking for the services.

It’s up to consumers to change PP from being just an abortion clinic, to a community based health care resource.

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

People do have the right to attempt to discourage anyone from doing Evil. However, if The Deceived still desires to do Evil they make the Free Will choice to do so.

And some wonder why there is so much Evil in the world. How much Evil does it take to “create” Good? How many Lies must be told to “create” Truth? Thirty-five years of legalized abortion has not solved any problems that its adherents claim it will. As it is presented the practice of abortion should eradicate itself as the poor become more wealthy and social stigmas and inconveniences are eliminated through the child’s death. Abortion is a Lie. Abortion hasn’t worked in the USA or anywhere else. How many children must be killed to solve problems? Approximately 1.2 million abortions per year in the USA is, apparently, not enough.