K
KyivAndrew
Guest
It seems very clear to us that you do not need a Bible to inform you of many things or any things, for which we can only marvel at your individual powers of reason. You are new to this Catholic Forum and it has been my experience that when people come on here as deists or atheists or agnostics or even as anti-Catholic bigots, many do so not to learn of Catholicism, but to satisfy their own personal vanity. One feels good and smug after going against the grain and maybe scoring a point. None of them ever ask initially a question of what does Catholicism think of this or that in their initial post but go right off in their very first post to try to go for a knock at Catholicism.
Had you wanted to learn about your deism I assume you would have joined a club of deists so I assume you are A posting for you own self-interest, recognition, satisfaction and not interested in learning anything about ,in your words, “made up BS catholic religiosity”, and assume that we want to live a lie and influence the “SANE” population to which you belong (ah, that’s an icebreaker on a discussion group: you’re insane
, as, according to you “there never was a Jesus” (post 31); or B you do really wish to engage in friendly argumentation with Catholic believers over “made up BS catholic religiousity” but I find that hard to fathom now and assume A. When you quote from Karl Marx directly as religion being the opiate of the masses, why should you be surprised when people argue you share the same view of religion as Marx, instead of taking umbrage at it being pointed out this was a Marxist thesis originally.But I’ll engage a bit and see if you are sincere or came on here with an axe. (One poster Ambrose here has been quite diplomatic to you and offered you a legitimate source arguing that your deism is baseless from a rational point of view and you have not even responded to his inquiry as to whether you are familiar with the work in question).
On drunkeness and how, of course, it’s obvious should one only be reasonable and logical that one would not overconsume. Well, let me argue that addictions and booze are not just simply states that any reasonable person such as yourself can understand to be bad in overuse. I will tell you that when I was training for the Bar, we all had to have lessons from lawyer/specialists/counsellors on the rampant addiction abuse among many, many PROMINENT members and judges on the highest courts of the land. Men who could only be described as among the most reasonable in society since using logic and reason was the great attribute that got these men to where they were. Our instructor hinted ominously that we would be absolutely amazed at the names of some of the eminently reasonable persons in desperate need of help. Guess what? For all their reason, they could not overcome their dependencies and addictions to booze, even they these paragons of reason. Judges on Courts of Appeal for goodness sake. There was no lack of them possessing reason. It is simply that reason and logic on their own are imperfect. Indeed, AA has simply found that the best way in the end to treat alcoholism is to finally admit your own helplessness as a human mortal and cast everything into God’s hands and pray for His guidance. This type of approach would seem to have more success than mere arguments to reason. (Well, Frank, it’s not good for your body and our status to drink. Meanwhile, Frank runs off for the next bottle before tomorrow’s trial.)
Indeed, Reason and Faith in Revealed Religion are not mutually exclusive as you seem to suggest but in many Christian apologists’ minds are complimentary. On a balance of probabilites, as the 2Oth Century’s most famous popular philosoher Mortimer Adler pointed, there are good logical reasons to believe in God, and for that matter a God engaged in His world (exnihilation) and Creation. (Adler went on to become a Catholic).
You see it’s fine and dandy these days to badmouth and throw all possible dirt on the Catholic Church as modern media usually looks for the most salacious episodes in Church history. But we are the Church of Mother Teresa and the Church of billions in history who each attempted by little deeds to assist and carry his brother or sister’s burden, to help them in sickness, to treat the poorest as if you were treating Christ Himself. Billions of little acts of decency never recorded but done out of Love for Christ and Humanity.
I suggest LawHead to learn a bit about people on this Catholic Forum who do not seem to share your own confidence and pride in Reason and traverse down to the bottom of the Prayer Intentions section of this Catholic Forum. Have a look at what real suffering people are up against in life and the solace and Help they do receive from our revealed God’s Love. Catholicism’s history is ultimately filled with billions of acts of love from one believer to others, entirely unrecorded, which acts far outnumber the salacious points in history one always seems drawn to about the Church.
God gave us Reason. God gave us the capacity for Faith in Him. When using both, we are flying with two wings rather than one. Faith in Catholic Teaching and Jesus Christ can be eminently reasonable.
