Delaware judge: priest-penitent privilege may be unconstitutional [CWN]

[40Days]

Anonymous confession hasn’t gone away.

Confession face to face is optional.

I’d like to see general absolution at the penitential rite of the beginning of Mass.

Those individuals who feel the need to speak to a priest, could do so privately at another time.

The current situation isn’t working, as most Catholics aren’t going to Confession, but are receiving Holy Communion.

General Absolution will rectify the problem.

Jim

Are you saying this is what you want as a means for mortal sins?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Are you saying this is what you want as a means for mortal sins?

Yes.

Private Confession was not part of the early Church for the first centuries, in fact the Pope had prohibited it.

Of course public confession was the norm, but only for apostasy.

Other mortal and vieniel sins were generally absolved by the priest through general absolution.

Private confession came about because of persecution of clergy in Ireland, where clergy were confined to monasteries.

So, in order to provide guidance to the people, they created a room with a window on the outside wall. The priests would end up hearing confession in this way, and it became popular to the point of becoming the norm.

Today, priests sit in the confessional week after week with few if any penitents coming for scheduled confession

One of my pastors finally just cancelled having scheduled confession and would only hear confession via an appointment.

Yet, no one did receive Holy Communion at Mass.

So, General Absolution, make sense in our day and age.

Like I said, people who feel a need to talk with a priest, can make an appointment and set up a private meeting and confession.

But I’m not the Pope so don’t hold your breath waiting for a change.

Jim

 

[JimG]

Making a confession to a priest of a reportable crime in a non-anonymous confession, e.g. face to face, is simply creating potential problems for the priest. The priest cannot reveal anything said in a confession. He cannot even reveal that he heard any particular person’s confession. He can not answer any questions about it.

In the current climate, I can even envision a law enforcement officer attempting to entrap a priest by confessing to a fake crime, then charging the priest for not reporting it.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Making a confession to a priest of a reportable crime in a non-anonymous confession, e.g. face to face, is simply creating potential problems for the priest. The priest cannot reveal anything said in a confession. He cannot even reveal that he heard any particular person’s confession. He can not answer any questions about it.

In the current climate, I can even envision a law enforcement officer attempting to entrap a priest by confessing to a fake crime, then charging the priest for not reporting it.

Except that the cop would be guilty of entrapment of the priest.

Also, the cop not having a warrant for being on the premise would also be problematic for the prosecutor.

Anonymous confession, would protect the priest from having to report a crime, such as a child molestation.

I wonder though, can a priest make the penance for such a person, that he must turn himself in to authorities ?

Jim

 

[otjm]

Making a confession to a priest of a reportable crime in a non-anonymous confession, e.g. face to face, is simply creating potential problems for the priest. The priest cannot reveal anything said in a confession. He cannot even reveal that he heard any particular person’s confession. He can not answer any questions about it.

In the current climate, I can even envision a law enforcement officer attempting to entrap a priest by confessing to a fake crime, then charging the priest for not reporting it.

I can’t, if for no other reason than that filing a false report - which the police would have to do, is a crime. I have seen police go to prison for doing exactly this - although not over entrapping a priest.

 

[otjm]

I wonder though, can a priest make the penance for such a person, that he must turn himself in to authorities ?

Jim

No - this has been answered on other threads.

 

[JimG]

I’ve heard of police using an informant to pose as a murderer for hire. Even though the guy never intends to commit the crime, the person who hires him can be prosecuted for hiring him.

In the case of a priest, perhaps an overzealous prosecutor thinks that all priests ought to report all crimes confessed to him. So he has somebody confess to an alleged crime, then uses the non-reporting against the priest.

 

[Tim_D]

General Absolution will rectify the problem.

General absolution is only allowed under specific circumstances such as soldiers about to enter into combat. They should still confess any serious sins at the nearest opportunity.

Having general absolution for people to properly receive communion without seeking forgiveness through confession would be completely inappropriate.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

General absolution is only allowed under specific circumstances such as soldiers about to enter into combat. They should still confess any serious sins at the nearest opportunity.

Having general absolution for people to properly receive communion without seeking forgiveness through confession would be completely inappropriate.

I know its not currently allowed.

Inappropriate ?

Disagree!

It was appropriate for the first 4 centuries.

Jim

 

[Tim_D]

I know its not currently allowed.

Inappropriate ?

Disagree!

It was appropriate for the first 4 centuries.

The Church was an underground institution in the first 4 centuries. Besides, that is a very poor reason in an effort to persuade. Using that logic, we should go back to, not a Latin but a Greek Mass since Latin didn’t become predominate until the 5th century.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The Church was an underground institution in the first 4 centuries. Besides, that is a very poor reason in an effort to persuade. Using that logic, we should go back to, not a Latin but a Greek Mass since Latin didn’t become predominate until the 5th century.

Apples and Oranges.

We’re talking about repentance and being in a state of grace before receiving the Holy Eucharist, not language used in Mass.

Jim

 

[Pulvis]

Apples and Oranges.

We’re talking about repentance and being in a state of grace before receiving the Holy Eucharist, not language used in Mass.

Jim

If you are complaining about the infrequent use of the confessional now, how many truly penitent will receive your general absolution at Mass? Perhaps what is really missing is a return to the knowledge of sin and hell. I cannot see a general absolution solving anything. Heck, my Priest never uses the Confiteor at Mass anyway.

And as to the OP, nothing done against the Church in this coutry surprises me anymore.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

If you are complaining about the infrequent use of the confessional now, how many truly penitent will receive your general absolution at Mass? Perhaps what is really missing is a return to the knowledge of sin and hell. I cannot see a general absolution solving anything. Heck, my Priest never uses the Confiteor at Mass anyway.

And as to the OP, nothing done against the Church in this coutry surprises me anymore.

All who are repentant at Mass will be forgiven and receive absolution.

Those who are not truly repentant ? Well, at that point, its between them and God.

Only God forgives sin

1441 Only God forgives sins.39 Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven."40 Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.

And although Jesus gave the authority to forgive sin to the Apostles and their successors, it does not exclude God’s forgiveness to the repent who turn to Him.

Jim

 

[Tim_D]

Apples and Oranges.

We’re talking about repentance and being in a state of grace before receiving the Holy Eucharist, not language used in Mass.

Jim

Apples and oranges?

You are the one suggesting that since it happened in the 4th century, then it could easily happen again today.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Apples and oranges?

You are the one suggesting that since it happened in the 4th century, then it could easily happen again today.

You’re referring to the different use of language in Mass as the equivalent of how general absolution was the norm, which is like comparing apples to oranges.

Not the same and yes, we could have general absolution.

There’s no reason not to, from what I can see.

Jim

 

[Tim_D]

You’re referring to the different use of language in Mass as the equivalent of how general absolution was the norm, which is like comparing apples to oranges.

Not the same and yes, we could have general absolution.

There’s no reason not to, from what I can see.

Jim

And you’re using the logic that since they did it in the 4th century, then they could do it today.

And there certainly is a reason why it isn’t done; Church authorities do not allow it because the ordinary means for sacramental reconciliation with Christ and the Church is through the practice of personal confession and absolution. Or isn’t that good enough for you?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Tim_D;

And you’re using the logic that since they did it in the 4th century, then they could do it today.

They can do it, if they are inspired to do so.

And there certainly is a reason why it isn’t done; Church authorities do not allow it because the ordinary means for sacramental reconciliation with Christ and the Church is through the practice of personal confession and absolution. Or isn’t that good enough for you?

Its the ordinary as it stands today, but doesn’t mean it was always the ordinary, which if wasn’t for the first four centuries.

Its not dogma,.it can be changed if the Pope along with the Magistarium see a need to change it.

The mission of the Church is the salvation of souls not making people feel Catholic.

If a person confessions their sins to God and is repentant, the Church can provide absolution generally to the congregation within the beginning of Mass.

Its allowed under special circumstances, which means it isn’t forbidden, and can be change to be the ordinary.

I pray it happens, but as always, His will be done.

Jim

 

[pnewton]

Doctors, lawyers and clergy have the right to confidentiality in what they are told under their circumstances, in this case a priest who hears a person’s confession.

Will this judge seek to over turn confidentiality of doctors and lawyers as well ?

Jim

As judges are lawyers and politicians are mostly lawyers, nothing will ever be done that will limit the profession of the lawyer. Catholics, on the other hand, will always have to face the possibility that they will undergo attacks to the basic foundation of their faith. We might see the return of the totally anonymous confession again some day because of the restriction on practice to our faith. Lawyers are secure until the final judgment.

 

[Pulvis]

As judges are lawyers and politicians are mostly lawyers, nothing will ever be done that will limit the profession of the lawyer. Catholics, on the other hand, will always have to face the possibility that they will undergo attacks to the basic foundation of their faith. We might see the return of the totally anonymous confession again some day because of the restriction on practice to our faith. Lawyers are secure until the final judgment.

 

[zz912]

Anonymous confession hasn’t gone away.

Confession face to face is optional.

It’s not optional in some parishes. The confessionals don’t have a screen set up.

Thankfully it seems parishes are putting screens back up overall. But some still don’t have anonymous confession available.