Demanding proof of God

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User124 said:
That non-religious societies and systems are bad.
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Well, that’s not what I said, User.

I am positing that atheistic regimes, such as those led by communist leaders, are responsible for the most heinous crimes against humanity.

That’s very indicting evidence that atheism does not produce good.
 
CarloMagnus said:
Doesn’t it? Communism saw a complete separation of Church and state; including making any laws for or against religion. But they neither encourage it nor made any efforts to allow it in Communist lands without control over it.

Look up the relationship between the People’s Republic of China and Roman Catholicism.

Difference doesn’t mean fact. Just because one group states that abortion is right and another wrong, doesn’t mean that it’s a different morality, but a failure in morality.

Then you can provide the meaning of life for me, so we can drop all religion and become like you.

But both are extremely different. Islam does as it does for the Allah of Islam; by whatever means, especially violence. While in Christianity, we apply our ways by justice, where violence is only an alternative where we have no choice.

I already answered yours. Now answer mine. A fictional sword is not the same as a real saint. There is overwhelming evidence of St. Joan of Arc’s existence, yet there is little evidence over the Zulfiqar.

Oh you like quoting verses from the Bible, do ya?
Here’s one for ya:

1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist–he denies the Father and the Son.

And I never said annoying. But it’s interesting that that popped into your head when you read what I wrote. Your psychology shows a clearly agitated person feeling attacked by rationalizations you’re unable to answer. Your next move will likely be to reduce these proceedings to mockery of the rationalization. I think that chances are you will deny everything considering the above and show little sympathy towards the religious arguments. And if not any of that, then you’ll likely go away.

-Karl
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I appreciate your high respect, I am in no need in being insulted, I’m leaving this thread. Bye
 
It never ceases to amaze me how many atheists there are that require a physical proof for a necessary metaphysical reality. It always seem to be: show me physical evidence of a spiritual being, (with a rejection of the physical reality of Jesus). And by presenting such a logical fallacy, some Atheists claim victory in argument because they have received no direct response to a question which cannot be answered in a non-nonsensical format they require for belief.

The metaphysical existence of God has always been accepted by even the early pagan philosophers. But it does require to look at the physical signs of the universe and use reason to conclude that the reality of God must exist. Religion does not presuppose God. Religion is derived from many things and is the form we come to know Him in greater wisdom through Divine Revelation. But this is not acceptable to many atheists.

So how can one demonstrate and answer the question? It is a delicate situation and one that must be gentle by providing the metaphysical framework for them to acknowledge and accept through logic and reason with natural physical evidence they will accept. This may not lead them to the Christian God, but merely to the unavoidable reasoned conclusion of “God” being a necessary reality. At least this would be a first step.

Joe B
 
User124 said:
I appreciate your high respect, I am in no need in being insulted, I’m leaving this thread. Bye
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The little I can do is pray for you. I’m sure that’s better than the contrary.

-Karl
 
Karl, I’m amazed how sure you are, pray for whatever you want, pray to end world hunger too, but here’s my advice to you when praying:

“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.“The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. ‘I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ “But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ “I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
 
User124 said:
Karl, I’m amazed how sure you are, pray for whatever you want, pray to end world hunger too, but here’s my advice to you when praying:

“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.“The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. ‘I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ “But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ “I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
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I have an inkling feeling that you have no idea what real suffering is. It’s good to know that in your time alive that your life had meaning. Even if it has no meaning to people around you.

I have a verse for you too.

Matthew 7:3-5
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

I doubt you’re in any position to be “correcting” me.

-Karl
 
CarloMagnus said:
I have an inkling feeling that you have no idea what real suffering is. It’s good to know that in your time alive that your life had meaning. Even if it has no meaning to people around you.

I have a verse for you too.

Matthew 7:3-5
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

I doubt you’re in any position to be “correcting” me.

-Karl
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One of my favorite verses, I’m not in any position, have a great day!
 
CarloMagnus said:
So, an atheist came up to me the other and demanded that I show the Atheist proof of God’s existence. I told him that the efforts of cause and effect were relevant to the circumstances that require the necessity of a being that would will something from nothing. Yet the atheist states,“This is not proof.”

I’m sure this doesn’t belong here, I’ll be content to know where it does so that I can post these sorts of questions there.

I simply didn’t know what more to say.

Can someone help me? I just don’t know what to say. And I would rather deal with this now before it causes me unnecessary apprehension.

-Karl
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If we looked at this from a pseudo-legal standpoint, it would be up to the one disputing the majority to prove the majority (Catholics/Christians) viewpoint wrong. The burden is for them to prove we are wrong about God.

Well this is how I present the arguement, and walk away.
 
PRmerger said:
Just so I can be clear: you are saying that Catholicism brainwashes children?

Yes or no?
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I certainly think that teaching that God loves you and that God exists as complete fact that is not argued by anyone is a form of brain washing. It certainly isn’t telling the whole story that these things are debated and no one really knows for sure.
 
It is all about faith and love, Jesus taught love of God and your neighbor. God is accepted on faith.

Love for one’s neighbor is certainly something that the world could use more of.

So called brain washing of children does not explain why once atheist that grew up in non believing homes, suddenly later in life choose God and become Christian.
 
interestedman said:
I certainly think that teaching that God loves you and that God exists as complete fact that is not argued by anyone is a form of brain washing. It certainly isn’t telling the whole story that these things are debated and no one really knows for sure.
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Just so you know, since you’re a newbie here, interestedman, you may say lots of things here on the CAFs, and proffer your objections to Catholicism, but you may not cross the line into saying things that are contemptuous of Catholicism.

That is against forum rules.

And saying that Catholics brainwash their children (or offer “a form” of brainwashing) is contemptuous.

But since you are a newbie, I will cut you some slack. But just so you know, you can’t say things like that here, in the future.
 
User124 said:
Right, Catholicism is a positive claim, which needs more proofs and evidences to accept it than the lack of belief ( atheism ).
The problem is: 1. There is no evidences to support any religion ever made, or super natural things, everyone claim that their religion to be the true one, none brings actual proofs.
2. There is a lot so many proofs, (scientific, logical, historical ones… Philosophy, psychology, sociology and ethics) to disprove religious stories, books, claims and gods.
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I must have misread you. I thought you were denying religion or god’s esistence. But from your answer you were saying that you don’t see that any one particular religion has proof that it is the correct/right one. It that what you are saying?
 
LB_in_TX said:
It is all about faith and love, Jesus taught love of God and your neighbor. God is accepted on faith.

Love for one’s neighbor is certainly something that the world could use more of.

So called brain washing of children does not explain why once atheist that grew up in non believing homes, suddenly later in life choose God and become Christian.
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There are certainly more people that were raised Christian and turn to atheist than the other way around.
 
interestedman said:
There are certainly more people that were raised Christian and turn to atheist than the other way around.
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what is your proof for that? what study can you point to? Atheist only make up a small percent of the population.
 
interestedman said:
So you can say for certain she never heard of the immaculate conception?
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Absolutely certain. The Church investigation of Bernadette determined that neither her
father, mother, or even the very intelligent aunt who was the real head of her family knew
anything about the Immaculate Conception. Also, it was not taught in her school. Bernadette
at the time of her apparitions could neither read nor write.
 
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