Democratic Ad: Catholic Church More Concerned About Abortion Than Poor

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It takes mental gymnastics to figure out that deciding to not act has consequences?

Your post also shows how people react when the people they support in the political arena are shown to have dirty hands. I in no fashion support or promote abortion, in fact I firmly believe that we should be doing everything we can to prevent even one life from being snuffed out.

So I find it ironic that some who portray themselves as being steadfastly pro-life are OK with their political favs not doing everything they can do to prevent that one additional life from being snuffed out.

If you don’t think that it is worth expending the mental energy required to hold our politicians feet to the fire to save that additional life, then I guess it means that we are content with the results of the actions and acts of omissions of our politicians.

Peace
Republicans did do everything they could to keep from having one more life snuffed out. Unfortunately, given the Democrats overwhelming majority in both houses they they could not block the bill, especially after so-called pro-life Democrats put party ahead of life. Fortunately we’re going to take care of this problem next Tuesday.

The truth of the matter is that was a terrible bill even if it hadn’t paid for abortions.
 
Property rights have always been sacred in this nation, until progressives came along and started taking what didn’t belong to them, in the name of “helping.” By making the government into the Big Daddy, it relieves citizens of the responsibility of helping each other WHEN NECESSARY and contributing our time, talent and treasure to take care of widows and orphans. The government becomes a secular church (yeah that’s a contradiction), but it takes our money without our consent and distributes it to whomever it decides needs our money more than we do.
Well, if one’s ineffective, shouldn’t they be relieved for someone that is more effective? BTW, in a close game, wouldn’t a team want an effective closer, such as Mariano Rivera, pitching in the top of the ninth with a one run lead than a mediocre middle reliever.
 
Republicans did do everything they could to keep from having one more life snuffed out. Unfortunately, given the Democrats overwhelming majority in both houses they they could not block the bill, especially after so-called pro-life Democrats put party ahead of life. Fortunately we’re going to take care of this problem next Tuesday.

The truth of the matter is that was a terrible bill even if it hadn’t paid for abortions.
If you think the republicans did all they could to make the best healthcare bill come out of congress, it tells a lot about how capable you think the republicans are.

It also is very telling about how really committed the republicans were to the pro-life cause. They were willing to sacrifice some unborn to please the tea party and the rest of their supporters went along for the ride.

Peace
 
If you think the republicans did all they could to make the best healthcare bill come out of congress, it tells a lot about how capable you think the republicans are.
About as capable as anybody can be when they lack a filarbuster proof number in the Senate and outnumbered by 75 in the house. Fortunately this will not be the case after next Tuesday. I hope their first order of business is to totally gut this farce of a healthcare bill- not only the portion that funds abortion but the whole thing. A bill that will lead to higher costs, substandard medical care for all and more abortions.
It also is very telling about how really committed the republicans were to the pro-life cause. They were willing to sacrifice some unborn to please the tea party and the rest of their supporters went along for the ride.

Peace
Gratuitous slap at the tea party is duly noted.

The Republicans didn’t sacrifice anybody. They fought tooth and nail to keep this bill, which funds abortion and will have a terrible negative effect on this country from passing.
 
Democratic Ad: Catholic Church More Concerned About Abortion Than Poor

St. Paul, MN – A campaign postcard the Minnesota Democratic Party sent to voters in the Midwestern state is causing a strong reaction from pro-life advocates. It claims the Catholic Church is more concerned with abortion than helping the poor.

LifeNews.com/state-5604
There is definetly a serious issue here; especially since politics is so heavily involved in everything now, but I wonder, if we really think about it, could’nt it be well said that the unborn in danger of being aborted are really and truly “thee poorest of the poor”? Consider their poverty: not even having the right to live? Not even being thought of as human being? Not even having their own bodies to live in? Judged as unfit to live except by the choice or allowance of someone else? It’s really hard to think of any group who are more impoverished than them.
 
There is definetly a serious issue here; especially since politics is so heavily involved in everything now, but I wonder, if we really think about it, could’nt it be well said that the unborn in danger of being aborted are really and truly “thee poorest of the poor”? Consider their poverty: not even having the right to live? Not even being thought of as human being? Not even having their own bodies to live in? Judged as unfit to live except by the choice or allowance of someone else? It’s really hard to think of any group who are more impoverished than them.
Yes, do you think that the political party that says it’s all about helping the poor would jump onto that cause, or not?

Actually there are anti-abortion efforts now to approach things from the “justice” side on college campuses. So this would be a similar spin, and might be quite effective.
 
About as capable as anybody can be when they lack a filarbuster proof number in the Senate and outnumbered by 75 in the house. Fortunately this will not be the case after next Tuesday. I hope their first order of business is to totally gut this farce of a healthcare bill- not only the portion that funds abortion but the whole thing. A bill that will lead to higher costs, substandard medical care for all and more abortions.

Gratuitous slap at the tea party is duly noted.

The Republicans didn’t sacrifice anybody. They fought tooth and nail to keep this bill, which funds abortion and will have a terrible negative effect on this country from passing.
They knew they didn’t have the votes to actually stop it, yet they did nothing to make it better. If that is standard that we hold our politicians to , its a pretty weak one.

Reference to tea party was to distinguish the pro-life forces from those only concerned with being obstructionist.May have been a poor choice as I’m sure some tea party people have their hearts in the right place.

Do you want kids with existing conditions to still be refused insurance, how about all the unemployed college grads coming out, do you think they should be dropped off their parents plans? Did you return your $250 donut hole check?

Peace
 
They knew they didn’t have the votes to actually stop it, yet they did nothing to make it better. If that is standard that we hold our politicians to , its a pretty weak one.

Reference to tea party was to distinguish the pro-life forces from those only concerned with being obstructionist.May have been a poor choice as I’m sure some tea party people have their hearts in the right place.

Do you want kids with existing conditions to still be refused insurance, how about all the unemployed college grads coming out, do you think they should be dropped off their parents plans? Did you return your $250 donut hole check?

Peace
You seem to be operating under the false assumption that this bill funding abortion was the only problem with it. I wonder why you dont have similar outrage for those democrats who voted for the bill despite knowng it funded aboriton and desptie having poised they would not?

We could have taken care of pre-exsiting conditions and covered kids up to 26 without the rest of this boondoggle. But this was not allowed to be debated-the Democrats had the votes to do it their way and they did-now thankfully they are going topay the price for ignoring the will of the people.
 
I am saying that because the Republicans would not support any healthcare bill, they got the bill they deserved.

The republicans took their balls and went home and the Democrats played the game with some of the wackos in their party instead.

You seem to not be considering the result of the republicans deciding that they would not vote for any healthcare bill. To paraphrase it, the Dems committed sins of commission, the Reps committed sins of omission. The unborn paid the penance for both.

Peace
*Why not say–as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say–“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is deserved. - Romans 3:8

It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. - 2 Corinthians 11:15*

Do you realize that it was the democrats who got Roe. V Wade to become a law in the US? The onus is totally on the liberal democrats since they were the ones who brought abortion to the front in the first place.

this is the classic “do bad, so that good may come out it” statement. Secondly, the Republicans did not commit omission, considered they brought up over and over again to the public the issues of public funding of abortion in the bill. The Catholic bishops did the same thing. Nancy Pelosi, who is an embarrassment to Catholics, refused to listen to any of them and would not budge the wording of the bill.

Whatever is evil is not to be done under any pretence. Any imaginable good which we may think will result from it; any advantage to ourselves or to our cause; or any glory which we may think may result to God, will not sanction or justify the deed. Strict, uncompromising integrity and honesty is to be the maxim of our lives; and in such a life only can we hope for success, or for the blessing of God.

Secondly, abortion is a NON-negotiable. In the Church there are I believe 6 non-negotiables in regards to voting. Abortion is one of them(others being stem cell research, euthanasia, gay marriage, etc). The bishops will not negotiate something that is already immoral. And the Church teaches that neither should laymen.Major Pro abortion democrats, like Kennedy’s son, have been denied communion for doing things such as this.
 
The above comments have no basis in reality. These comments only reinforce the “us versus them” mentality that represents the worst of political discourse.

😦
Then why are liberals so adamant about getting abortions? To me it adds up. They want to get rid of the poor by making them have abortions, so they won’t have so many kids. Look at China. That’s a good example of atheists who have no respect for human life.
 
Then why are liberals so adamant about getting abortions? To me it adds up. They want to get rid of the poor by making them have abortions, so they won’t have so many kids. Look at China. That’s a good example of atheists who have no respect for human life.
I think many people don’t realize is that poverty is more related to politics and de-growth of the economy than actual population. Tokyo, the biggest city in the world seems to do fine poverty wise. Technically there is enough food to feed everyone on this earth. But war, communism, collective farming, political corruption, abuse of tariffs, and unsanitary conditions lead to allot of these issues.

In all issues the population argument is simply an emotional argument. But in reality it has no base. But then again, most liberals tend to have unrealistic views like the communists had…Abortionists think PEOPLE are the problem. Of course they are not, because without people you have no production and people in the assembly lines pumping out your electricity, farming the ground, and filtering your water. Its unjust policies that are the problem, not people themselves.
 
I think many people don’t realize is that poverty is more related to politics and de-growth of the economy than actual population. Tokyo, the biggest city in the world seems to do fine poverty wise. Technically there is enough food to feed everyone on this earth. But war, communism, collective farming, political corruption, abuse of tariffs, and unsanitary conditions lead to allot of these issues.

In all issues the population argument is simply an emotional argument. But in reality it has no base. But then again, most liberals tend to have unrealistic views like the communists had…Abortionists think PEOPLE are the problem. Of course they are not, because without people you have no production and people in the assembly lines pumping out your electricity, farming the ground, and filtering your water. Its unjust policies that are the problem, not people themselves.
Yu are wrong about Tokyo and poverty

google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iJeyV7uhigbErXZgsQmWp6AAMW4g

Most of poverty is due to poor life choices. Having a baby while still in your teens and not getting married is almost a guarantee that you and your child will end up in poverty
 
Yu are wrong about Tokyo and poverty

google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iJeyV7uhigbErXZgsQmWp6AAMW4g

Most of poverty is due to poor life choices. Having a baby while still in your teens and not getting married is almost a guarantee that you and your child will end up in poverty
yea but the economy and things like war determines the amount of choices one can make. One can make more choices in a strong economy than say the great depression where there were barely any jobs, or in a communist country where you can no choice at all…Also things like poor cultivation, drought, and low food supply add in. Its hard to make choices when you have a disease from dirty drinking water or are starving to death.

Japan has poverty yes, but it is nowhere near the scale of places like India, Congo, or Liberia. Japan is ranked 3rd in GDP actually.
 
This is a play from the real outcomes that are in process in Central America, where the protestant faiths are growing “more rapidly” than they did after the referendum by Luther. They are causing thousands of Catholics to leave the faith, and join protestant churches, why?
Because for years, and years, the Catholic leaders in South American have focused on the “political” issues for the poor while the protestants have focused on the “spiritual” issues of their souls and relationship with JESUS.
This is the driving force behind the next Synod wherein Pope Benedict XVI is going to call for a new “Evangelization” and direct the religious to get back to souls first and foremost.

The democratic party is simply leveraging what they see happening and going HHHmmmmmmm, maybe that same message will work for us.
Has this Synod happened? I vaguely remember there being one recently, but the focus of it has vaporized from my mind.

And yes, the church needs to get back to the teaching of theology and the truths of the Church. The Social Justice being proscribed here in the US left one person out, or should I say three, The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit.
 
*Why not say–as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say–“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is deserved. - Romans 3:8

It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. - 2 Corinthians 11:15*

Do you realize that it was the democrats who got Roe. V Wade to become a law in the US? The onus is totally on the liberal democrats since they were the ones who brought abortion to the front in the first place.

this is the classic “do bad, so that good may come out it” statement. Secondly, the Republicans did not commit omission, considered they brought up over and over again to the public the issues of public funding of abortion in the bill. The Catholic bishops did the same thing. Nancy Pelosi, who is an embarrassment to Catholics, refused to listen to any of them and would not budge the wording of the bill.

Whatever is evil is not to be done under any pretence. Any imaginable good which we may think will result from it; any advantage to ourselves or to our cause; or any glory which we may think may result to God, will not sanction or justify the deed. Strict, uncompromising integrity and honesty is to be the maxim of our lives; and in such a life only can we hope for success, or for the blessing of God.

Secondly, abortion is a NON-negotiable. In the Church there are I believe 6 non-negotiables in regards to voting. Abortion is one of them(others being stem cell research, euthanasia, gay marriage, etc). The bishops will not negotiate something that is already immoral. And the Church teaches that neither should laymen.Major Pro abortion democrats, like Kennedy’s son, have been denied communion for doing things such as this.
You echo my points, despite the importance of abortion as an issue, the republicans gave up trying to make a better healthcare bill so they could portray themselves as a united front against the dems.

If you look at most important legislation, it involved compromise and involvement on both sides of the aisle. By not even offering up one vote to the Dems in return for tougher abortion language, the Republicans abdicated their responsibility to see that the innocent were more protected.

And the republicanss can’t change anything until at least 2013 when the next president sits.

So would making the healthcare bill better be doing evil? I would suggest that the opposite is true. Is doing nothing evil ? I would suggest in this case it was.

Peace
 
*Why not say–as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say–“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is deserved. - Romans 3:8

It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. - 2 Corinthians 11:15*

Do you realize that it was the democrats who got Roe. V Wade to become a law in the US? The onus is totally on the liberal democrats since they were the ones who brought abortion to the front in the first place.
Just a little correction on this “fact”. Of the 9 justices on the court in Roe v. Wade 6 were appointed by Republicans, so that would make them responsible for Roe v Wade since the republican appointees controlled the court. Of the seven justices voting for Roe v. Wade the republican votes outnumbered the democrat votes 4-3 .

Peace
 
Just a little correction on this “fact”. Of the 9 justices on the court in Roe v. Wade 6 were appointed by Republicans, so that would make them responsible for Roe v Wade since the republican appointees controlled the court. Of the seven justices voting for Roe v. Wade the republican votes outnumbered the democrat votes 4-3 .

Peace
this is not fully correct. As Nixon was a corrupt president who was pro-abortion. The court case contained many dissident republicans who technically has abandoned conservative ideals. Harry Blackmun for example was a wonderful example of a man who abandoned his party. Many of these judges changed their views after they were appointed.

William Brennan, an embarrassment to faithful Catholics around the world and the Church, was another great dissenting figure. He was known to be a progressive liberal and was a large force behind Roe v Wade as was Blackmun.

White, was also another judge who dissented in the case. Another example similar to Blackmun. For the amount of dissenting judges there must have been an very powerful force behind the trial that was emitting pressure among the judges.

In all reality it was a horrid jury as there were only 2 figures that were against abortion and was overly curtailed and outnumbered by liberal judges and figures. Many prominent feminists also had a very high hold on the jury too.

Today however, the majority of group who have kept abortion legal and protected are democrats mostly, plannedparenthood, the ACLU, with the exception of a few republicans such a Rudy Juliani. However your sin of omission is incorrect as most republicans and conservatives have very openly voiced out opposition, and as least partial birth abortion banned.
You echo my points, despite the importance of abortion as an issue, the republicans gave up trying to make a better healthcare bill so they could portray themselves as a united front against the dems.
If you look at most important legislation, it involved compromise and involvement on both sides of the aisle. By not even offering up one vote to the Dems in return for tougher abortion language, the Republicans abdicated their responsibility to see that the innocent were more protected.
Thats exactly what they tried to do with the Stupak-Pitts amendment language! lol. However the Stupak compromise was not fully accepted by the democrats. Republicans were hoping greatly for the full language in the stupak was to be used. But the democrats would not compromise. In mid-November 2009, it was reported that 40 House Democrats said they would not support a final bill containing the Amendment’s provisions. Nancy Pelosi essentially refused to accept any new language into the bill about abortion. Hence the onus is on the democrats mostly as it was a democrat who brought in this bill in the first place and another democrat who refused to let new language into the bill about the abortion restrictions.

And then you have the Nelson amendment, which democrats eventually shut down too…Until Scott Brown’s election to the Senate in January 2010, the Nelson Compromise was viewed by the pro-choice leadership of the Democratic party as one of the big hurdles in passing legislation, along with other significant issues such as the public option. The Massachusetts ballot removed the pressure away from Senator Nelson in carrying the decisive political opposition to the bill, due to the fact that the Republicans were virtually united in their own opposition to it.

After much pressure from democrats he later agreed to accept a version which allows people to use federal subsidies to buy plans that include abortion coverage while requiring them to pay for elective abortion coverage separately without subsidies, and allows states to exclude plans providing abortion coverage from their respective exchanges. After criticism from national pro-life organizations, Nelson shifted his position and has indicated that he will lobby for tighter restrictions on elective abortion funding similar to the Stupak Amendment
 
By keeping it illegal we reduce them to committing their crime in the back alleys in unsanitary conditions.
are you saying that the poor young women who have abortions under such condition deserve to die?

this is not the catholic position by the way. pro-lifers generally do not equate women getting abortions with rapists and murders who deserve to be punished. no republican ever talks about prosecuting, imprisoning, or executing women who get abortions.
If that analogy does not suit you, then let me ask you to provide one difference between abortion and a mother deciding to kill her six month old daughter because** it **is an inconvenience. Could you also support infanticide?
no one thinks “because it is an inconvenience” justifies getting an abortion. you have no understanding of what young pregnant women go through in making this decision and why they do it. i think women have better options available to them. what we need to do is help them see that rather than put our daughters at risk in back alleys.

the problem isn’t as simple as you make it out to be. you need to find some sense of compassion for suffering young women rather than restricting your sense of empathy to the unborn. it is possible to care about both the unborn and the born.
 
you need to find some sense of compassion for suffering young women rather than restricting your sense of empathy to the unborn. it is possible to care about both the unborn and the born.
Yes, it is. I advise you to not presume to judge me or anyone else. You show your ignorance of others when you make such false assumptions.

I also might suggest to anyone else to consider the same questions I asked here. If you too can find no satisfactory answer to them, then consider why there isn’t one.
If that analogy does not suit you, then let me ask you to provide one difference between abortion and a mother deciding to kill her six month old daughter because** it **is an inconvenience. Could you also support infanticide?
 
I agree with the Democrats; I, as a Catholic, am ABSOLUTELY more concerned with ending abortion than helping the poor.

The aborted are dead; the poor are not. One group has no money; the other is being murdered.

Which group would you be more concerned about?

That said, I care very much about the poor and fully suppport charitable efforts to help the poor. But I’m not ashamed to say I care about abortion more.
Marc, you’ve expressed a sentiment I read a lot here on CAF. So I guess what I don’t understand is: why are some people viewing the democratic add no negatively if it’s correct? Now that elections are coming up, there are a few threads about only voting for pro-life candidates, and claims about abortion being the single and deciding factor for Catholics, and that all the other issues are important but not important enough. So, I would think there would be some agreement here regarding the democratic ad’s claims 🤷
 
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