Democratic Ad: Catholic Church More Concerned About Abortion Than Poor

[JimG]

And the public or private sanction against Catholic politicians of either party who vote again the Church’s position on these programs is what…?

I was referring to anti-poverty programs operated on a voluntary basis by agencies of the Catholic Church, not by the government. Why would the Church sanction anyone who chose not to support any particular charity? There are lots of them to choose from. No canon law says you must support the local homeless shelter or food kitchen. People do that voluntarily.

But one of the ten commandments is “Thou Shalt Not Kill.” It’s certainly reasonable that one who deliberately ignores that commandment and urges others to do so ought not to approach the sacraments.

As to abortion and big government: Abortion was not a Federal issue until seven men on the Supreme Court decided to overturn all 50 state laws regulating the practice of abortion, and put in their place a regime of abortion on demand. That was uncalled for. State legislatures are perfectly capable of devising their own abortion statues. They might reasonably decide to limit abortion in their state rather than making it legal throughout all nine months of pregnancy.

 

[Christopher68]

I fail to see how protecting the lives of people is a big government program? I thought that’s what governments were supposed to do?

I am curious -why would you even want to entrust leadership to somebody who thinks it’s ok for women to kill their children?

You’re missing the point. However, that is not surprising - I’ve often noted that the emotional nature of the issue tends to clouds one’s understanding of the unfortunate reality of government.

Perhaps you can explain how a government that is so clumsy and inefficient in so many areas will sudddenly become a paragon of virtue and efficiency on this issue?

 

[estesbob]

You’re missing the point. However, that is not surprising - I’ve often noted that the emotional nature of the issue tends to clouds one’s understanding of the unfortunate reality of government.

Perhaps you can explain how a government that is so clumsy and inefficient in so many areas will sudddenly become a paragon of virtue and efficiency on this issue?

Yes it is an emotional issue. In fact anyone who does not find our country supporting the slaughter of 1.2 million children a year as an emotional issue is morally deficient .

As I said before the government protecting the lives of its citizens is exactly the purpose of government. Since for the vast majority of the history of this country abortion was illegal and there was no massive government program making it so your question is nothing more than a strawman designed to draw attention away from the evil you support.

 

[Christopher68]

Yes it is an emotional issue. In fact anyone who does not find our country supporting the slaughter of 1.2 million children a year as an emotional issue is morally deficient .

As I said before the government protecting the lives of its citizens is exactly the purpose of government. Since for the vast majority of the history of this country abortion was illegal and there was no massive government program making it so your question is nothing more than a strawman designed to draw attention away from the evil you support.

A strawman?

Do you deny that the government’s Great Society porogram has incresed poverty?

Do you deny that the government’s War On Drugs has increased drug abuse?

How will you respond when estesbob’s big government “War on Abortion” actually makes the issue worse? What you’re saying in your above post is that if someone says they are pro-life that is more important than actual results. Puh-lease!

 

[Rocinante]

Most abortions are not by poor people. Most poor people do not want abortions. Why can’t you understand that?

i do understand that most people do not want abortions, but he fact is that the poverty rate is about 14% while 44% of abortions are had by women who are below the poverty line. the relationship between poverty and abortion is very clear.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

i do understand that most people do not want abortions, but he fact is that the poverty rate is about 14% while 44% of abortions are had by women who are below the poverty line. the relationship between poverty and abortion is very clear.

where are you getting your information?

 

[pnewton]

…rapists and murders, for goodness sake!!!

But abortion is murder. It is the deliberate, violent ending of an innocent human life.

What part is not abortion.

Abortion is not an accident (deliberate)
Abortion is not passive (violent)
Abortion ends a life which is innocent and which is human.

 

[JimG]

i do understand that most people do not want abortions, but he fact is that the poverty rate is about 14% while 44% of abortions are had by women who are below the poverty line. the relationship between poverty and abortion is very clear.

It certainly is clear. The poor and minorities are targeted for abortions. Since the war on poverty seemed to succeed mainly in creating households headed by single women, by definition it increased poverty. Now the idea is to reduce poverty by eliminating the poor directly.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

It certainly is clear. The poor and minorities are targeted for abortions. Since the war on poverty seemed to succeed mainly in creating households headed by single women, by definition it increased poverty. Now the idea is to reduce poverty by eliminating the poor directly.

 

[estesbob]

A strawman?

Do you deny that the government’s Great Society porogram has incresed poverty?

Do you deny that the government’s War On Drugs has increased drug abuse?

How will you respond when estesbob’s big government “War on Abortion” actually makes the issue worse? What you’re saying in your above post is that if someone says they are pro-life that is more important than actual results. Puh-lease!

I never suggested we needed a big govt war on abortion You seem to be the only one suggesting one would be needed. Was ther a dept of stoping abortion prior to Roe being imposed? As I said -just another strawman to deflect the discussion

 

[Christopher68]

I never suggested we needed a big govt war on abortion You seem to be the only one suggesting one would be needed. Was ther a dept of stoping abortion prior to Roe being imposed? As I said -just another strawman to deflect the discussion

Bob, are you even reading my posts? I would never suggest a big government solution, as I am well aware of how impotent government is at solving problems. And while you may not have said it directly, you certainly *implied *that you favored a big government war on abortion in your rabid endorsement of any politician who says they are pro-life. If that’s not what you’re suggesting, then perhaps you would care to elaborate? Or is your entire solution “if only we could back in time to before 1973”???

 

[estesbob]

Bob, are you even reading my posts? I would never suggest a big government solution, as I am well aware of how impotent government is at solving problems. And while you may not have said it directly, you certainly *implied *that you favored a big government war on abortion in your rabid endorsement of any politician who says they are pro-life. If that’s not what you’re suggesting, then perhaps you would care to elaborate? Or is your entire solution “if only we could back in time to before 1973”???

1. I have never suggest that we need a big government program to ban abortion
2. I have never suggested that we should vote for one merely because they are pro-life

Having disposed of those straw men can we get back to the topic at hand?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I think you two are agreeing, you just don’t know it!

 

[Aboveallbereal]

While claiming to be directed at the intellect, this sort of campaign is designed to appeal to emotions. They know the “average” voter does not have the facts at hand and that some will simply accept their word for it. Catholics, some Catholics, are too willing to trust without checking to see if what they are being told is accurate. Of course, those who are already anti-Catholic will spread this around as fact, usually because they don’t check the facts either, but also, in some cases, with the full knowledge of what the facts are but with a malicious desire to smear the Church.

God bless,
Ed

It’s an example of a classic fallacy. They know that message will appeal to the lapsed catholics most of whom hate the Church and who form part of the pro abortion Democratic core and they are trying to get their core out to vote.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

It’s an example of a classic fallacy. They know that message will appeal to the lapsed catholics most of whom hate the Church and who form part of the pro abortion Democratic core and they are trying to get their core out to vote.

So it’s mainly lapsed Catholics who are “pro-choice” Democrats? I am still so angry and puzzled by Catholics who vote Democrat! Many of them are in denial, I think, but some consider themselves to be good Catholics! How is this possible considering the Democrat party platform has included access to abortion for what, 30 years now?

 

[RobbyS]

This is a play from the real outcomes that are in process in Central America, where the protestant faiths are growing “more rapidly” than they did after the referendum by Luther. They are causing thousands of Catholics to leave the faith, and join protestant churches, why?
Because for years, and years, the Catholic leaders in South American have focused on the “political” issues for the poor while the protestants have focused on the “spiritual” issues of their souls and relationship with JESUS.
This is the driving force behind the next Synod wherein Pope Benedict XVI is going to call for a new “Evangelization” and direct the religious to get back to souls first and foremost.

The democratic party is simply leveraging what they see happening and going HHHmmmmmmm, maybe that same message will work for us.

Why the Russian Orthodox hated the Jesuits.

 

[PetersKeys]

the issue is NOT whether or not abortion is justified or a good thing. everyone agrees that it is a bad thing.

you do realized that thousands of parents have said the exact same thing as they mourned the deaths of their daughters in botched abortions?

anyway, the point of talking about “our daughters” is not to refer specifically to *your *offspring. i’m talking about all young women who may o rmay not have had the benefit of your extraordinary parenting skills, a safe home, food on the table, a good education, and hope for the future of a child brought into the world under often terrible circumstances.

This is why it is so important for parents to teach young women about mothering and childbearing preparation and skills. Preparing them for marriage and homemaking so they are prepared and fortified when the issue comes along. Trouble is many of these women lack any mothering and homemaking skills because they live in a society that degrades and puts down motherhood as unimportant. So when the issue comes up, they do not know what to do because they are so dead to the concept in the first place. Also parents need to teach their daughters about their chastity and their modesty and to keep a good eye on them(not allow dating). A young woman is under the authority of her father before she goes to her husband. And thus the father must guard the daughters chastity at all costs.

I don’t know about you, but there are a very large amount of charities that help pregnant women who are poor. So there is NO excuse. So if you care about pregnancy women in need, give them out this info…

OptionLine

Option Line consultants refer each caller to a pregnancy resource center in her area for answers to questions about abortion, pregnancy tests, STD’s, adoption, parenting, medical referrals, housing, and many other issues. The toll-free number is available to callers 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Callers from across the country can reach a trained, caring person and then be connected to a pregnancy resource center near them for one-on-one help. Option Line is a call center located in Columbus, Ohio, formed as a joint venture between Care Net and Heartbeat International.

1-800-395-HELP or E-Mail

Birthright

Birthright has a network of almost a thousand pregnancy help centers throughout the United States, These centers offer pregnancy testing, counseling, and resources, including medical, financial, and personal assistance. The Birthright philosophy is that a woman coming in for help does not represent a “statistic”, or an “issue,”, but is rather a human being looking for help and support in a time of need. In addition to pregnancy help services, Birthright also provides links to doctors and others in the local community who can help a woman after the birth of her child.

1-800-550-4900

National Life Center

National Life Center’s 24-hour hotline directs you to the closest Crisis Pregnancy Center in the United States and Canada.

1-800-848-LOVE

Bethany Christian Services

Bethany Christian Services is one of the nation’s leading providers of adoption and crisis pregnancy support information. They operate a national hotline which is active from 8 AM to 12 PM, 7 days a week. This hotline routes callers to one of 56 local offices which can then provide local and regional information.

On-going education and support for parents are offered through our adoption support services. Bethany acknowledges that adoption is a life-long process and that adoptive families sometimes have unique issues and concerns. Bethany’s adoption pre-screening and placement program is one of the most recommended in the country, and they have placed more than 11,000 children in adoptive homes. In addition, Bethany provides good community-based follow-up, both for women who choose adoption or who raise their child themselves.

1-800-BETHANY

The Nurturing Network

Some 32,000 volunteer member resources nationwide provide individually tailored practical support to college and working women with unplanned pregnancies including counseling, medical, residential, educational, employment and financial resources.

Several Sources Foundation

Several Sources Foundation provides a 24-hour crisis pregnancy help line which can connect any caller to their local pregnancy help resources, including Catholic Charities, Lutheran Social Services, and others. Their database of pregnancy help resources is one of the most complete in the nation. See for yourself at their great website!

1-800-662-2678

Gabriel Project

From the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston, Dr. Marcella Colbert directs this Catholic ministry that evangelizes and saves lives, using the local parish as the haven in which women who are pregnant and in need can hear an echo of Gabriel’s message, “You have nothing to fear!”

 

[portarica]

this is not fully correct. As Nixon was a corrupt president who was pro-abortion. The court case contained many dissident republicans who technically has abandoned conservative ideals. Harry Blackmun for example was a wonderful example of a man who abandoned his party. Many of these judges changed their views after they were appointed.

William Brennan, an embarrassment to faithful Catholics around the world and the Church, was another great dissenting figure. He was known to be a progressive liberal and was a large force behind Roe v Wade as was Blackmun.

White, was also another judge who dissented in the case. Another example similar to Blackmun. For the amount of dissenting judges there must have been an very powerful force behind the trial that was emitting pressure among the judges.

In all reality it was a horrid jury as there were only 2 figures that were against abortion and was overly curtailed and outnumbered by liberal judges and figures. Many prominent feminists also had a very high hold on the jury too.

Today however, the majority of group who have kept abortion legal and protected are democrats mostly, plannedparenthood, the ACLU, with the exception of a few republicans such a Rudy Juliani. However your sin of omission is incorrect as most republicans and conservatives have very openly voiced out opposition, and as least partial birth abortion banned.

Thats exactly what they tried to do with the Stupak-Pitts amendment language! lol. However the Stupak compromise was not fully accepted by the democrats. Republicans were hoping greatly for the full language in the stupak was to be used. But the democrats would not compromise. In mid-November 2009, it was reported that 40 House Democrats said they would not support a final bill containing the Amendment’s provisions. Nancy Pelosi essentially refused to accept any new language into the bill about abortion. Hence the onus is on the democrats mostly as it was a democrat who brought in this bill in the first place and another democrat who refused to let new language into the bill about the abortion restrictions.

And then you have the Nelson amendment, which democrats eventually shut down too…Until Scott Brown’s election to the Senate in January 2010, the Nelson Compromise was viewed by the pro-choice leadership of the Democratic party as one of the big hurdles in passing legislation, along with other significant issues such as the public option. The Massachusetts ballot removed the pressure away from Senator Nelson in carrying the decisive political opposition to the bill, due to the fact that the Republicans were virtually united in their own opposition to it.

After much pressure from democrats he later agreed to accept a version which allows people to use federal subsidies to buy plans that include abortion coverage while requiring them to pay for elective abortion coverage separately without subsidies, and allows states to exclude plans providing abortion coverage from their respective exchanges. After criticism from national pro-life organizations, Nelson shifted his position and has indicated that he will lobby for tighter restrictions on elective abortion funding similar to the Stupak Amendment

Then don’t say it was democrats responsible for Roe V. Wade, say it was Republicans that deserted the cause.

Why do some anti abortion supporters resort to making up stuff to try to make points, it makes it seem like all anti-abortion people will resort to untruths regarding abortion and that hurts the overall efforts to reduce abortion today and eliminate it tommorow.

Peace

 

[estesbob]

Then don’t say it was democrats responsible for Roe V. Wade, say it was Republicans that deserted the cause.

Why do some anti abortion supporters resort to making up stuff to try to make points, it makes it seem like all anti-abortion people will resort to untruths regarding abortion and that hurts the overall efforts to reduce abortion today and eliminate it tommorow.

Peace

You don’t reduce something that making it legal and forcing the taxpayers to pay for it. Regardless of who is is responsible for imposing Roe V. Wade on this country it is an abject evil that must be fought in everylegal way possible. Catholics can never, ,never support this evil either directly by procuring one for openly supporting it or indirectly by empowering those who have pledged to keep it legal. You simply cannot parlay valid political differences on how to address the issues facing our country into justification for supporting pro-abortion politicians.

 

[portarica]

You don’t reduce something that making it legal and forcing the taxpayers to pay for it. Regardless of who is is responsible for imposing Roe V. Wade on this country it is an abject evil that must be fought in everylegal way possible. Catholics can never, ,never support this evil either directly by procuring one for openly supporting it or indirectly by empowering those who have pledged to keep it legal. You simply cannot parlay valid political differences on how to address the issues facing our country into justification for supporting pro-abortion politicians.

Right and when we use false info because we think it helps the cause, it still remains false and counterproductive .

Want to get rid of abortion? Make more democrats see the virtue in the position. Making only Democrats responsible for abortion makes it a one issue decision for them as well.

Peace