Democratic Party Convention General Thread

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YADA said:
So - laws against theft, usury, rape and murder should not be passed … - freedom of religion does not mean that depriving individuals of their life should be condoned in law … freedom of religion does not mean we should not protect innocent life.

Abortion is the deliberate killing of a person - taking their life from them - the life of a child … that is not a religious issue it is not a Catholic issue - that is not Catholic Doctrine - that is a matter of science … that is the reality of abortion - a fact.

and Mr Kaine does not accept his Church’s teaching - on the issue … he has abandoned that in every way except ‘word’ … Abortion is always and everywhere an intrinsic evil … to not actively seek to end that evil and to actively work to preserve that evil is against the teaching of the Church.
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Actually it is Catholic teaching that an embryo is a human person.
 
dmelosi said:
I truly am disgusted at those people who claim to be Catholic that do not stand up for their parties stance on killing those most innocent. There has not been one democrat catholic say their party is wrong and that is disturbing.
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Are you disgusted with your church for claiming “those people” as Catholic?
 
Sy_Noe said:
Are you disgusted with your church for claiming “those people” as Catholic?
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Church teaching is that at the moment an abortion occurs, the woman and all who formally conspire to procur that abortion are automatically excommunicated.

The Catholic Church at least makes no such claim that these people are Catholic. They are ex-communicants.
 
YADA said:
Unlike abortion where a constitutional protection was manufactured … the Second Amendment is clearly an individual right …

The Children in the Womb have had their right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness stripped from them -

What right are you wiling to cede?

Understand this - abortion kills people - it is currently state sanctioned execution of individuals without due process … innocent individuals who are not read their rights, condemned without a trial, no court appointed attorney … and its celebrated - people who kill their children are applauded and celebrated …

Does that not give you pause at all - even if you cannot grasp what the words “intrinsic evil” mean?
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First of all, save the condescension and the sermonizing. I know what intrinsic evil means. I understand perfectly well the evil of abortion, and I don’t need a lecture from you on the subject. I never said I supported legalized abortion.

An individual right to contemporary firearms is hardly less controversial than the right to abortion for a nonviable fetus. The Supreme Court only found such a right 2 years ago, and the majority had to ignore the express language of the Second Amendment to do it. At least in Roe the court invented a right in defiance of silence, not of contrary language.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Church teaching is that at the moment an abortion occurs, the woman and all who formally conspire to procur that abortion are automatically excommunicated.

The Catholic Church at least makes no such claim that these people are Catholic. They are ex-communicants.
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Are these two points correct: first, that the woman and all associated with the abortion are excommunicated; and second, that one is no longer Catholic, despite having been baptized as such, once one is excommunicated? Could you verify particularly the latter statement? I thought one is indelibly Catholic after one is baptized.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Church teaching is that at the moment an abortion occurs, the woman and all who formally conspire to procur that abortion are automatically excommunicated.

The Catholic Church at least makes no such claim that these people are Catholic. They are ex-communicants.
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Being ex-communicated doesn’t make one not Catholic.
 
meltzerboy said:
Are these two points correct: first, that the woman and all associated with the abortion are excommunicated; and second, that one is no longer Catholic, despite having been baptized as such, once one is excommunicated? Could you verify particularly the latter statement? I thought one is indelibly Catholic after one is baptized.
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On the second, excommunicated Catholics are Catholics. They are still supposed to attend Mass weekly and so on. They are not supposed to hold positions in parishes such as being a lector nor are they supposed to receive the sacraments until reconciled.
 
meltzerboy said:
Are these two points correct: first, that the woman and all associated with the abortion are excommunicated; and second, that one is no longer Catholic, despite having been baptized as such, once one is excommunicated? Could you verify particularly the latter statement? I thought one is indelibly Catholic after one is baptized.
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It all seems like a technicality to me at that point. Excommunication has historically been considered to be a fairly serious thing, imperiling to the immortal soul even. While personally, I do not like to engage in otherworldly speculations about the soul, suffice it to say that this is a state that any good Catholic would want to avoid being in, regardless of what they might think will be the ultimate consequences of mortal sin.

But in the interest of avoiding such legalisms, I specifically referred to them as ex-communicants, rather than ex-Catholics.🙂
 
Darryl1958 said:
It all seems like a technicality to me at that point. Excommunication has historically been considered to be a fairly serious thing, imperiling to the soul even.

But in the interest of avoiding such legalisms, I specifically referred to them as ex-communicants, rather than ex-Catholics.🙂
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Actually, what you said was “The Catholic Church at least makes no such claim that these people are Catholic. They are ex-communicants.”

Ex-communication is meant to be medicinal. Serious, yes, and imperiling to the soul. But medicinal.
 
gracepoole said:
Actually, what you said was “The Catholic Church at least makes no such claim that these people are Catholic. They are ex-communicants.”

Ex-communication is meant to be medicinal. Serious, yes, and imperiling to the soul. But medicinal.
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Whatever gradepoole,

Just whatever.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Whatever gradepoole,

Just whatever.
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That’s grace. 😉

But really, I think it’s important to note correct information regarding something as central as what makes one Catholic. I’ve no interest in pointing this out for any other reason.
 
gracepoole said:
That’s grace. 😉

But really, I think it’s important to note correct information regarding something as central as what makes one Catholic. I’ve no interest in pointing this out for any other reason.
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Thanks, gracepoole, for the clarification. I am a cradle Catholic and I have often wondered about the person who is supposedly excommunicated but doesn’t know it. It’s time for me to do a little research. Do you have any thoughts on this?
 
Good_Tidings said:
Thanks, gracepoole, for the clarification. I am a cradle Catholic and I have often wondered about the person who is supposedly excommunicated but doesn’t know it. It’s time for me to do a little research. Do you have any thoughts on this?
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Hmm… Well, in terms of those who are automatically excommunicated but don’t know it, I’m not sure that’s possible. From a Catholic Answers post on this:
No one is automatically excommunicated for any offense if, without any fault of his own, he was unaware that he was violating a law (CIC 1323:2) or that a penalty was attached to the law (CIC 1324:1:9). The same applies if one was a minor, had the imperfect use of reason, was forced through grave or relatively grave fear, was forced through serious inconvenience, or in certain other circumstances (CIC 1324).
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catholic.com/quickquestions/apart-from-abortion-are-there-other-sins-that-incur-automatic-excommunication

My biggest question about this relates to “serious inconvenience.” But I guess that’s WAY off from the DNC.
 
I am sure excommunication is no biggie these days. After all, who are we to judge?
And what does an immortal soul even mean anyways?

But in terms of disgust, even as disgusting as the child rapist priests were, no special passages were deemed necessary to show that their ilk would be automatically excommunicated.
But as for those who conspire to abort, there are statements dealing with that.
 
Darryl1958 said:
I am sure excommunication is no biggie these days. After all, who are we to judge?
And what does an immortal soul even mean anyways?

But in terms of disgust, even as disgusting as the child rapist priests were, no special passages were deemed necessary to show that their ilk would be automatically excommunicated.
But as for those who conspire to abort, there are statements dealing with that.
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That is telling. Isn’t it?
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Hold on just a minute. Let’s look at the history. You began a series of posts having to do with guns, starting with post #1083, #1091, 1103, #1204, and #1206. In these posts you were content to focus on the issue of guns. You did not mention abortion once in all those posts. It was only starting with post #1209 that you pivoted and began insisting that we could not discuss guns unless we did so in the context of abortion. What changed?

Well, it looks like as long as you thought you could win your point by talking about guns, you would do that. But when you backed yourself into a corner with the unsupportable claim that an armed uprising against a tyrannical government would not be about shooting at cops that you decided to turn the discussion to one about abortion. That looks a bit too convenient.

But frankly, I’m surprised you didn’t take the obvious response to that problem. You could have simply admitted that yes, if there was a popular uprising and the police and military defended the government, then cops would get killed. But if the cops were supporting a corrupt tyrannical government, they would just be unavoidable casualties of war, and it would be their own fault for supporting such a regime. You could have said that, and no one could have said anything further. You didn’t have to hide behind the issue of abortion.
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This thread is about the Democratic Party and post have been about different things. The discussion has been turned constantly on this thread because there are many issues being discussed. The poster said killing cops and nothing about killing anyone else. You continue to try to justify and twist what he said.
 
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