Democratic Party Convention General Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter _Abyssinia
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
meltzerboy said:
G-d is eternal, that is, extra-temporal. Of course G-d knows us in the womb, outside the womb, during our life, and after our death. He knows all things. However, we become a living soul, as well as body, after birth.
Click to expand...
At what point after birth?
 
JimG said:
At what point after birth?
Click to expand...
Probably at the first breath after birth since Meltzerboy said, “After man’s physical body was formed from the earth, the breath of life was inspired into him” (according to Jewish belief).
 
Thorolfr said:
Probably at the first breath after birth since Meltzerboy said, “After man’s physical body was formed from the earth, the breath of life was inspired into him” (according to Jewish belief).
Click to expand...
It would seem, then, that one’s immortal soul is predicated on lung function. Under this theory, I suppose that a premature infant on a ventilator would have a soul as soon as the ventilator was turned on. For myself, I think the soul is linked to the humanity of the unborn rather than a specific bodily function. And the unborn child is a distinct new individual of the human species beginning at conception.
 
JimG said:
It would seem, then, that one’s immortal soul is predicated on lung function. Under this theory, I suppose that a premature infant on a ventilator would have a soul as soon as the ventilator was turned on. For myself, I think the soul is linked to the humanity of the unborn rather than a specific bodily function. And the unborn child is a distinct new individual of the human species beginning at conception.
Click to expand...
The key time frame of ensoulment occurs when the baby’s head emerges from the womb. At this moment, the baby’s personhood is exactly the same as that of the mother’s, so that even if the mother’s life is in danger, one is not permitted to sacrifice the baby’s life to protect the mother.
 
JimG said:
It would seem, then, that one’s immortal soul is predicated on lung function. Under this theory, I suppose that a premature infant on a ventilator would have a soul as soon as the ventilator was turned on. For myself, I think the soul is linked to the humanity of the unborn rather than a specific bodily function. And the unborn child is a distinct new individual of the human species beginning at conception.
Click to expand...
Babies breathe in utero. They just breathe amniotic fluid instead of air.

In this matter of “ensoulment” none of us knows when that occurs. Indeed, the Supreme Court in “Roe” admitted that it did not know when an unborn child becomes a “person”.

So what we have is a situation much like some feckless person shooting a high powered rifle into a packed stadium from a great distance with iron sights. He can’t possibly know whether he’ll hit anyone or not. He might, but might not. But he shoots anyway. We would not consider that blameless, either morally or legally.
 
meltzerboy said:
Since this is a Catholic Forum, abortion is a primary issue. It should not be assumed, however, that it is a major issue for everyone, including many Catholics.

Another reason some may be voting for Hillary is, as I have noticed, a new tack by some Democrats to portray Trump as not only dangerous because of his lack of experience but actually disturbed. The co-author ghostwriter of his “Art of the Deal,” Tony Schwartz, goes so far as to say Trump is a man without a soul or conscience, a megalomaniac. That is very close to saying he is a sociopath. I myself have suggested he may have a narcissistic personality disorder. Thus Hillary may be the candidate by default for those voters who perceive Trump as irrational and emotionally disturbed.
Click to expand...
They just had a program on this on MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell’s show, and also how Trump is obsessed with nuclear weapons, saying if we have them, why shouldn’t we use them.

Mayo Clinic’s definition: “Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others. But behind this mask of ultraconfidence lies a fragile self-esteem that’s vulnerable to the slightest criticism. A narcissistic personality disorder causes problems in many areas of life, such as relationships, work, school or financial affairs. You may be generally unhappy and disappointed when you’re not given the special favors or admiration you believe you deserve.”

This, along with Trump being pro-death on so many issues, such as climate change and other life-threatening environmental harms, make him a very dangerous person. It’s like the American people are playing with matches in an explosives factory…only the death and harms from his presidency would go well beyond our borders and well into the future for 100s & 1000s of years.
 
meltzerboy said:
The key time frame of ensoulment occurs when the baby’s head emerges from the womb. At this moment, the baby’s personhood is exactly the same as that of the mother’s, so that even if the mother’s life is in danger, one is not permitted to sacrifice the baby’s life to protect the mother.
Click to expand...
Ten seconds earlier, this human was not a person with a soul. Although her DNA was identical to what it would be ten seconds later, and although she was no less capable of feeling pain, and although her future potential to live and serve G-d was no different, she was not a person.

And thus, even as she is being born, deserves about the same protection and consideration that our laws give to a dog or cat.
 
john_ennis said:
Ten seconds earlier, this human was not a person with a soul. Although her DNA was identical to what it would be ten seconds later, and although she was no less capable of feeling pain, and although her future potential to live and serve G-d was no different, she was not a person.

And thus, even as she is being born, deserves about the same protection and consideration that our laws give to a dog or cat.
Click to expand...
I believe the unborn are persons and am against abortion.

But I understand it’s a difficult issue I’ve never had to face. The pro-choice people (which is not exactly the same as “pro-abortion”) claim a woman has internal sovereignty over her body to make her own death penalty decisions, and in her mind she might be thinking the unborn person in her womb is threatening her life or economy or…?? I was pretty put out by the woman at the Dem convention who said she had an abortion because it wasn’t the right time for her to have a child. That’s disgusting, but I wouldn’t want her to have an illegal abortion and maybe bleed to death or be slammed in prison for it. I actually knew a woman back then in the 60s who nearly bled to death from an illegal abortion.

The Republicans to me seem more focused on slamming women who have aborted their children into prison than they are in helping that woman have the child and raise it. The Dems OTOH say lets help pregnant women and those with children – give free or inexpensive childcare, health care, etc etc. Hillary has said abortions should be legal, safe, and very rare.

I wonder how many abortions Trump has been involved in or paid for. I heard at least one (but I didn’t get the source). However we do know he is pro-death on every other issue, including natural abortions from environmental factors.

The Republicans are very narrowly focused only on unborn fetuses, and only those facing threat of elective abortions…not those facing threat from toxins in the environment, in our products, or the food we eat or water we drink or air we breathe. Which is not exactly the same as “pro-life.”

As the white folks say, “All lives matter.”
 
lynnvinc said:
I wonder how many abortions Trump has been involved in or paid for. I heard at least one (but I didn’t get the source).
Click to expand...
What a horrible remark to make. Nothing more than a scurillous personal attack.
 
DeniseNY said:
What a horrible remark to make. Nothing more than a scurillous personal attack.
Click to expand...
It’s actually a fair comment. Trump talked about his sexual promiscuity on the Howard Stern show. There were comments made related to avoiding STDs and, based on the disgusting conversation, it was clear that he was claiming that the sex he was having could lead to a pregnancy. Given Trump is clearly not infertile, it is likely he impregnated some of these women. So, there are likely illegitimate children of Trump or the women involved obtained abortions.
 
lynnvinc said:
I believe the unborn are persons and am against abortion.

But I understand it’s a difficult issue I’ve never had to face. The pro-choice people (which is not exactly the same as “pro-abortion”) claim a woman has internal sovereignty over her body to make her own death penalty decisions, and in her mind she might be thinking the unborn person in her womb is threatening her life or economy or…?? I was pretty put out by the woman at the Dem convention who said she had an abortion because it wasn’t the right time for her to have a child. That’s disgusting, but I wouldn’t want her to have an illegal abortion and maybe bleed to death or be slammed in prison for it. I actually knew a woman back then in the 60s who nearly bled to death from an illegal abortion.

The Republicans to me seem more focused on slamming women who have aborted their children into prison than they are in helping that woman have the child and raise it. The Dems OTOH say lets help pregnant women and those with children – give free or inexpensive childcare, health care, etc etc. Hillary has said abortions should be legal, safe, and very rare.

I wonder how many abortions Trump has been involved in or paid for. I heard at least one (but I didn’t get the source). However we do know he is pro-death on every other issue, including natural abortions from environmental factors.

The Republicans are very narrowly focused only on unborn fetuses, and only those facing threat of elective abortions…not those facing threat from toxins in the environment, in our products, or the food we eat or water we drink or air we breathe. Which is not exactly the same as “pro-life.”

As the white folks say, “All lives matter.”
Click to expand...
YES to everything you said!
:amen:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top