Democratic politician angry that letters on his pro-abortion voting record distributed by private group at local Catholic parishes

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Really? You wouldn’t want information out there on where the candidates stand on the preeminent issue of our day? You do not want an informed catholic vote to be a difference in an election? Do not fall for the lie that churches should not be used for political issues. The gravest of evils are “political issues” in our day and need to be fought against. The culture is swallowing the people in “your churches”. I am truly at a loss.
 
Would it be preferable to simply ask them to stop first? Seems a bit hardline to me tbh.
 
Review of the pertinent deeds on file dispute leagl ownership claims. Esoteric claims should be limited with your insistance that LOGIC be fully followed. If the Phoenicians were wrong in killing maybe the self declared “catholics” running should be against aborting 8 month old viable fetus …at least as a start…
 
If you are a supporter of murdering children and have a record of supporting laws that allow for murdering of children, then why get angry over what you believe in? Isn’t that whole point of being FOR something? Don’t you WANT people to know what you BELIEVE in? Or is his problem that he may actually feel the Holy Spirit inside him working telling him that murdering children is actually a bad thing and he should be ashamed of himself? Maybe just maybe.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Using pretty words just enables people to keep lying to themselves about “oh I personally am against it but can’t force my ideas on the world”. <----this was me 20 years ago until I finally got honest with myself.
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EXACTLY! Thank you for coming to the point of honesty about it.

If others were to do this with any other disgusting behavior, we can see a stark contrast of where this could eventually lead.
  • I am personally against adult men having (insert words) with minor children, but who am I to force my beliefs on anyone else?
  • I am personally against people exposing themselves in public, but who am I to force my beliefs on anyone else?
  • I am personally against sisters marrying their brother, but who am I to force my beliefs on anyone else?
So on and so forth.
 
Maybe he has had to help pick up the trash after one of these crusades from those who just remove it and drop it. Store parking lots where this has happened always are cluttered with this trash.
 
Freedom…for unjust taxation to be imposed…(see page 33 official democratic platform).Guarantee treatment for and surgery and hormones?.. PrEP and PEP…if truvada treatment alone costs $2000 month…what does it cost to raise a child? …it seems as if more money is being spent to encourage what has been previously categorised as unnatural acts than saving a life of an innocent…why sanction doctors hospitals nurses and pharmacists for doing what their Catholic conscious dictates but demand payment for that which erodes the moral framework in which religion might be practiced…what is just? What is moral? What is evil…does theshame no longer exist…where are the leaders of good?. What do we do?
 
Freddy said:
But would you join forces with someone who was pro-abortion? Which actually means that they would be actively for women having them.
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Good point @Freddy. To ‘pro-lifers’: Have you met anyone who is ‘actively for women having abortions’? Have you met anyone who is actively for women having appendectomies? People are not ‘for’ medical procedures. They see them as unfortunately necessary in cases where they will do more good than allowing the targeted condition to continue. That’s what ‘pro-abortion’ people think. If you engage with us on the basis of what we think, rather than what we don’t think, there is often some common ground to be found (reduction in poverty, support for pregnant women, paid parental leave, better forms of adoption that allow birth parents access, and even (outside Catholic ‘pro-lifers’) support for contraception availability.

The reduction of the abortion debate to a binary argument has produced no wanted results for ‘pro-lifers’ anywhere in the world. Temporary ‘victories’ are quickly overturned. The trend towards free access to abortion is overwhelming. Whether it is right or wrong this is the environment in which decisions need to be made and strategies developed.

On the subject of the OP: I don’t really see anything wrong with anyone targeting any political audience with a pamphlet and don’t see anything wrong with private property owners restricting access for this purpose. Where a Church benefits from tax exemptions or state subsidies I think the argument for the church or its car park being ‘private’ is not so strong.
 
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dochawk said:
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FiveLinden:
To ‘pro-lifers’: Have you met anyone who is ‘actively for women having abortions’?
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Yes.
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Can you give us some examples?
 
You mean introduce you to people that I’ve met over the years?

Or if you mean the target, Sanger wanted to wipe out minorities and “lower quality” whites while she was at it.
 
Five Linden did ask “To ‘pro-lifers’: Have you met anyone who is ‘actively for women having abortions’?” dochawk answered that he had. I have as well.
 
The “question” was whether we had met any one. I use quotes because it was an implicit statement that no such persons exist.

In fact, I’ve met these people. No, I’m not going to drag the names of private individuals into a public discussion; that would be obnoxious.

And frankly, anyone so unaware of Margaret Sangers views and motives as to need further “evidence” of them, doesn’t have the background needed for serious discussion.
 
Let’s be clear here. I’m not asking if anyone thinks that it’s a good idea to allow a woman to choose to have an abortion. I’m asking if there is anyone who promotes abortion as being a good thing in itself. Which would mean suggesting that they are a good thing whether the woman wants one or not.

Clearly a nonsensical position.

Which would entail promoting abortions whether a woman wanted one or not.
 
Why don’t you use Google…you know the largest most widely available search engine…to find obvious examples of actresses and politicians who blissfully thank their abortions for saving their careers and without their abortions they wouldn’t have “succeeded”. Yet you ask here for examples.
 
Deacon Jeff, do you mean, in the terms of my question, that you have met many people who ‘want women to have abortions’ in the same way that some unusual person would ‘want women to have appendectomies’ apart from the circumstances leading to that situations.

Nearly all the people who are close to me (but not all) support legal access to abortion but none (including me) would ever ‘want a woman to have an abortion’ any more than we would ‘want a woman to have an appendectomy’.
 
Deacon Jeff, you said:

In each of these cases the ‘want’ is not that the woman ‘have an abortion’ but that she not be pregnant and not have a child. In each case, clearly, those advocating an abortion would have preferred that the pregnancy not take place.

If you want to persuade people of the Catholic view I think it helps to understand what people who don’t share this view want. They don’t want ‘abortion’. They want a better life for women facing an unwanted pregnancy. Telling them they ‘want’ abortion simply triggers a mental off switch. So, by the way, does calling people ‘pre-born baby assassins’.
 
FiveLinden said:
In each of these cases the ‘want’ is not that the woman ‘have an abortion’ but that she not be pregnant and not have a child
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I understand that we should not demonize pro-choice people in a discussion, but at the same time, it’s also true that pro-choice people usually make this kind of constructs in which basically nothing is an abortion and if you say so, you are losing credibility.

It’s a bit like the “shove Religion down your throat” excuse that is used in the Internet. If you desire something “good” (not changing the woman’s life) by doing something in between (abortion) you are permitting that path, and therefore at least indirectly wanting it.
 
And you think that’s an example of someone promoting abortions? Never the twain I’m afraid.
 
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