Democrats, party of infanticide?

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Never occurred to me, we have some pulling for the other side, we have some who possibly have participated in very real pro-life acts. Not talking of myself but I’ve donated to one charity, they have a mobile ultrasound machines and they claim they are making a difference.

Of course, I believe in the right to life, pro-life cause but they more I have found out about it, the more I see how it has real racial dimensions to it, the demographics. Anyone supporting or voting for pro-abortion, pro-choice politicians should know what they are supporting.
 
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Yes, we need to pray that things like this does not spread across the USA.
 
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Democratic Senators voted 41-3 AGAINST the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act in February of this year. On the other hand, all 53 Republican Senators voted in favor of protecting babies born from botched abortions. Had just 7 Democrats voted in favor (53 + 7 = 60 votes to defeat a Senate filibuster), a baby born alive during an abortion must be given the same degree of medical care that any other baby born at the same gestational age would, including transportation to a hospital. It also would enforce punishing doctors who refuse to provide basic medical care to infants.

The same Democratic Party abortion extremism exists at the state level, as well. Democrat Governors from Wisconsin, North Carolina, and Montana rejected Born-Alive efforts, while Democrat controlled legislatures in New York, Illinois, Rhode Island, and Vermont passed abortion-to-birth laws.
 
Is infanticide being defined as AFTER the birth of the baby? If so, which Democrats support this?

If, on the other hand, infanticide is being defined as allowing abortion up to the moment of birth, then that is a different situation. Judaism permits this if the mother’s life is in danger, or even if an unborn ill baby is causing the death of an unborn healthy baby. But it does NOT permit abortion at or after the moment of actual birth, because at that moment the baby is considered a full person whose life is of equal value to the mother. Any prevention of abortion prior to birth, I would consider a violation of religious freedom, let alone a violation of a mother’s right of choice regarding her own body and her own family.

In a broader context, if conservatives do not want leftists to interfere with their personal lives, they should reciprocate regarding social, personal issues such as abortion and gay marriage instead of legislating according to their own moral and religious values, which the whole country or whole world does not necessarily share.
 
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meltzerboy2 said:
if conservatives do not want leftists to interfere with their personal lives, they should reciprocate regarding social, personal issues such as abortion
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When this personal issues interfere with the life of other human beings, I think they have crossed the line, even if they disguise as religious freedom.
 
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Judaism does NOT disguise this as religious freedom. It is a tenet of the religion. One may not share this tenet but one has no right to prevent others from practicing their religious beliefs. The day that a Catholic is FORCED to have an abortion (has this day already occurred?) is the day I will stand up for Catholics’ right to refuse abortion due to their religious beliefs.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
One may not share this tenet but one has no right to prevent others from practicing their religious beliefs
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But it is our (substantiated) belief that this religious practice takes the life of a human person, so, by our belief, it goes off limits to what is permitted by religious freedom.

If the Nazis treated the Holocaust as a religious practice, for example, would the Jews defend it under religious freedom?
 
But it’s preaching to the choir… for the most part.
Very few people on this forum actually support abortion. Usually the debate here is “because of abortion you MUST vote Trump” vs “I agree abortion is evil but I can’t vote Trump”. There’s very little “abortion is justified” here… so yeah, maybe on this forum we could cut back…
 
The biggest, most problematic word in the English language is the word “if.” The analogy, while clever, is, in my view, nonsensical, because NO religion can possibly justify the intentional slaughter of millions of innocent civilians AFTER birth. But before birth, there are differing philosophical and religious arguments concerning different stages of pre-birth and what constitutes a person and a human being in their entirety. There is no such religious argument regarding people after birth, except possibly for pagan religious sacrifice rituals and cannibal cultures. I doubt the Nazis fit under either of these categories.

Further, a similar concept (in reverse) might be drawn regarding the Catholic concept of a “just war.” That is, is the taking of human life, particularly that of civilians who are non-combatants, justified during wartime? To a Quaker, it would NEVER be, whereas to a Catholic or Jew, it might be. Should not a Catholic or Jew be permitted to go to war and possibly kill a civilian, if necessary, for self-defense, whereas a Quaker should likewise be permitted to refuse combat based on their religious belief?
 
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meltzerboy2 said:
if conservatives do not want leftists to interfere with their personal lives, they should reciprocate regarding social, personal issues such as abortion
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Abortion concerns the life of the baby being killed. It’s a violation of the baby’s constitutional rights in my opinion.
This is not a “conservative” issue either. I am a Democrat. I believe that this country is supposed to stand up for marginalized groups even when it’s not popular.
Babies in the womb are THE most marginalized group out there right now, and it’s not very popular to stand up for them.
And before anyone makes some comment about “women’s lives”, roughly half the babies in the womb being killed are women.

How you or anyone else sees killing a baby, whether it’s in utero or right after birth or when it’s 2 years old, as a “personal issue” is beyond me. I’d like to think I would say that even if I wasn’t a Catholic. Although I guess one might say it’s mighty “personal” to that baby who doesn’t have a voice unless we give him or her one.
 
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There is no argument in embryology whether the newborn baby two minutes after emerging from the womb is the same human being that was in the womb two minutes prior. The child does not suddenly become human by reason of emerging from the womb.

The question is, if a child survives an attempted abortion–and there are abortion survivors–is it now, out of the womb, entitled to the same medical care as any other newborn, or can it be killed or left to die? I note that Barack Obama, for example, voted against the Born Alive Infants Protection Act several times as a state legislator. And Pete Buttigieg seems to take the position that whether a born alive infant lives or dies is entirely the mother’s decision.
 
How do you reconcile your beliefs and the platform of the democratic party?
 
I couldn’t care less about their platform. Parties usually don’t do much of whatever’s on their platform. They promise a lot and deliver little.

I don’t donate money to the Democratic party. Never did.

I don’t always vote for their candidates. I decide on an individual candidate basis. I have always done this and have voted for a mix of candidates from both major parties and third party/ independents.

I do vote in the primaries. In that way I get to exercise a tiny amount of influence.

I have no desire to be a Republican. Our family tradition is Democrat. My grandfather (who died in early 1960s) was called “Mr. Democrat” in his town and even in his large local obituary. My mother and father would never, ever vote Republican when they were alive, and they were the best Catholics I knew. I got Mom to vote third party once.

I could quit the Dems and be an independent, but if I do that then I lose the ability to ever change anything with respect to the Dem party. Also, I think it’s good if I just sit there and be a pro-life Democrat because it sends a message that they exist.

Finally, I don’t take kindly to all these priests and Catholics saying “You can’t be a Catholic and a Democrat”. I don’t take to that well. I’d stay in the party just to be stubborn after all that stuff they pushed during the election campaign.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
I couldn’t care less about their platform. Parties usually don’t do much of whatever’s on their platform. They promise a lot and deliver little.

I don’t donate money to the Democratic party. Never did.

I don’t always vote for their candidates. I decide on an individual candidate basis. I have always done this and have voted for a mix of candidates from both major parties and third party/ independents.

I do vote in the primaries. In that way I get to exercise a tiny amount of influence.

I have no desire to be a Republican. Our family tradition is Democrat. My grandfather (who died in early 1960s) was called “Mr. Democrat” in his town and even in his large local obituary. My mother and father would never, ever vote Republican when they were alive, and they were the best Catholics I knew. I got Mom to vote third party once.

I could quit the Dems and be an independent, but if I do that then I lose the ability to ever change anything with respect to the Dem party. Also, I think it’s good if I just sit there and be a pro-life Democrat because it sends a message that they exist.

Finally, I don’t take kindly to all these priests and Catholics saying “You can’t be a Catholic and a Democrat”. I don’t take to that well. I’d stay in the party just to be stubborn after all that stuff they pushed during the election campaign.
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Do you feel like you’re having any influence, then?
 
Hello, messaging from another account. If you don’t mind answering my indulgence? How are you?

Might I ask what you think from Republicans? In some areas, it seems like Republicans are very, very, very unpopular or seem to go too far, I guess people think they’re too extreme [issues with race, the environment like climate change, health care and social programs, immigration, unions/labor though I think the GOP is becoming a WWC party but do they give a good deal compared to the Dems]I know I’m being partisan but I get the sense but Republicans seem bad or wrong on most issues except this one or it seems like the GOP/Conservatives always get flack or put down [this is pride speaking] granted they’re not above criticism. Republicans aren’t that bad or, no one is saying that but pointing out major issues with Republicans and there is substance to it?

Also how would you respond that today’s Republicans especially with Trump may seem despicable, lack integrity, honor, decorum, respectability and seem less likable and downright jerks are bad at governing [better at opposition like during President Obama]? Like people say going for Biden is “Country over Party.”
 
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Who knows? I have no way of knowing if there are others like me; if there’s a group we would have influence. However, once you leave, you have zero influence. Although I suspect there is some understanding that old skool Dems aren’t too happy with everything the new young Dems do.
 
I don’t think of them very much. My husband and in-laws were all Republicans. It was understandable as they were WASPS, of the type that historically and culturally would be Republicans. My family is about as far from WASPS as you can get without a prescription.

I like some Republicans and don’t like others.
I’m quite capable of spending a social evening chatting with Republicans and I think that they are more likely to give better and less emotional analyses of legal and political issues. Democrats are more likely to throw some kind of emotional tantrum or engage in virtue signaling. Or want the USA to be “more like Europe” which makes me want to tell them to just move to Europe then already.
However, I am more comfortable in the party I’ve been in my whole life than in the Republican party.
 
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@Tis_Bearself I’m a pro-life Democrat, there are about 25 million of us projections show. This election 88 pro-life democrats were elected, most in history.

Don’t abandon ship and let it sink, stay and save the ship from sinking.
 
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Do you think they’re as bad as people say they are? How much credence do people [does it seem like everyone] who rail against the GOP have? I know I basically asked this but the following race/racial issues from immigration to police issues [and the divide between black communities and the GOP], environment/climate change [I remember one of your post seeming to not give too much panic saying people will use that as an excuse like in the Australian Wildfires], social programs/health care, labor/union issues [I understand you’re from Union Country]?

That said, it does seem like low income and working class Europeans have a better deal than their Americans in similar situations, and it seems like Americans struggle with living costs, job burnout, lack of vacation/lack…

This is uncharitable but do you think Republican Catholics are compromised or not so, but they ought to stand up to their party? They don’t seem to get the holistic message but it seems easy to put up the trope that perhaps they’re those shallow, uncaring, judgemental, hypocritical Christians?
 
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With respect, I don’t really like to be put on the spot with a lot of questions. It makes me feel like I’m on the witness stand or on a quiz show rather than having a chat. So I think I will just let my previous answers stand.

You also seem to think I spend huge amounts of time thinking about Democrats and Republicans and pondering political issues. I don’t, because it’s not interesting to me, and largely not productive.

Have a nice day.
 
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