Demon/devil pacts in Dungeons&Dragons

[Lost_Wanderer]

But I like being right.

Demons are supernatural beings, but not all supernatural things are demons–do you follow the distinction? Just because you saw the word “supernatural” in the article doesn’t mean parapsychology has anything to do with demons.

Hate to say you’re quite wrong then. Discrediting parapsychology doesn’t even touch my main point. The distinction and your admission that demons are considered supernatural only serve to prove it.

Demons are supernatural. Supernatural means obscure parapsychology is in play. Therefore, it’s not exactly high enough on the threat level to call upon the National Guard.

Try again.

 

[1newcatholic]

Hate to say you’re quite wrong then. Discrediting parapsychology doesn’t even touch my main point. The distinction and your admission that demons are considered supernatural only serve to prove it.

Demons are supernatural. Supernatural means obscure parapsychology is in play. Therefore, it’s not exactly high enough on the threat level to call upon the National Guard.

Try again.

I’m going to call this a draw.
As a courtesy

See you around the forums.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Aaaaargh!!! I’ve been looking all over the internet for more 5th ed Warlock info and still can’t get anything other than the barest details. :crying:

Wizards, I’d like to know what I wanna build before I get my hands the PHB y’know!? ;w;

So far, all the pacts are categorized under three distinct beings: the Archfey, the Fiends, and the Great Old Ones. (Source.)

Archfey - Beguiling and trickery. Ugh. This has nymph and goat men written all over it. Sorry, not much a fan of the classics.

Fiends - Dark blessings and hellish luck. Okaaay. Not sure about this one. From my gaming experience, anything that counts on luck is an accident waiting to happen.

Great Old Ones - Madness, the mind, and the great beyond… what? That’s it? Anything else!? TELL ME! I MUST KNOW!! CTHULHU!! SPEAK TO MEEEEH!!! :crying:

/geek rant

 

[Razanir]

Archfey - Beguiling and trickery. Ugh. This has nymph and goat men written all over it. Sorry, not much a fan of the classics.

Not necessarily. The fey in Celtic mythology were probably the epitome of CN. No nymphs or goatmen necessary.

Great Old Ones - Madness, the mind, and the great beyond… what? That’s it? Anything else!? TELL ME! I MUST KNOW!! CTHULHU!! SPEAK TO MEEEEH!!! :crying:

Give it a bit. I’m sure someone will make Cthulhu, Azathoth, and the rest of them as pact options.

 

[Pat_Payne]

Warlocks? Meh. I want my wizards to have 1d4 hit dice, a dagger and magic missile.

 

[Razanir]

Warlocks? Meh. I want my wizards to have 1d4 hit dice, a dagger and magic missile.

I can give you two of those. My system of choice (Legend) lets you have a dagger and, of course, magic missile (to attack the darkness). But everyone gets a flat 8/10 hp per level.

 

[Melissa]

I can give you two of those. My system of choice (Legend) lets you have a dagger and, of course, magic missile (to attack the darkness). But everyone gets a flat 8/10 hp per level.

But what if you want to attack the dread gazebo?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Not necessarily. The fey in Celtic mythology were probably the epitome of CN. No nymphs or goatmen necessary.

Woops, forgot to mention those. I say the same for them too! So meh! hides before his head gets transfigured

On a slightly more serious note, tricks aren’t really my playstyle. Aggressive control is where I’m at and that’s why it’s pretty obvious the Great Old Ones are the best fit.

Plus there’s the fact that it’s very possible for Warlocks to try and maintain autonomy in spite of their bargains. Look at Joseph Curwen.

Give it a bit. I’m sure someone will make Cthulhu, Azathoth, and the rest of them as pact options.

Yeah. I just think’d it be real helpful if more info was out by now. Saves up time on the character creation. That preview page on the Warlock looked promising but I haven’t entirely grasped the overall MO of the skillset. I mean, can I break people’s minds? Do my summons obtain Alienist properties? What does the pact mean for my Eldritch Blast?

I have questions! Dey must beh answured! :hypno:

I can give you two of those. My system of choice (Legend) lets you have a dagger and, of course, magic missile (to attack the darkness). But everyone gets a flat 8/10 hp per level.

Warlocks? Meh. I want my wizards to have 1d4 hit dice, a dagger and magic missile.

Back in 3.5, one perk the Warlock gave me put it above all the other classes: Unlimited Eldritch Blast.

It’s like Unlimited Coke except you leave a trail of dead things. :whacky:

 

[Razanir]

Back in 3.5, one perk the Warlock gave me put it above all the other classes: Unlimited Eldritch Blast.

It’s like Unlimited Coke except you leave a trail of dead things. :whacky:

Yes, but can you build things like the Avatar, Jedi Batman, or a Pirate Robot Zombie Ninja, and have them all be balanced characters?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Yes, but can you build things like the Avatar, Jedi Batman, or a Pirate Robot Zombie Ninja, and have them all be balanced characters?

I know a couple guys who would do that. It was fun. I’m just shallow sometimes though. There’s something secure about knowing that, if all spells fails, blast it ad infinitum.

One of those guys could unleash a dazzling display of high level rays, spheres, and clouds. But at the end of the fight, his character’s like a spent mini-gun. Whereas, there I am. Still standing. Still blasting. Sometimes I feel like an overcharged Megaman.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Good news everyone! My friend got himself a copy and has given me a glimpse into the Warlock’s three different pacts!

From the new PHB!

The Archfey

Your patron is a lord or lady of the fey, a creature of legend who holds secrets that were forgotten before the mortal races were born. This being’s motivations are often inscrutable, and sometimes whimsical, and might involve a striving for greater magical power or the settling of age-old grudges. Beings of this sort include the Prince of Frost; the Queen of Air and Darkness, ruler of the Gloaming Court; Titania of the Summer Court; her consort Oberon, the Green Lord; Hyrsam, the Prince of Fools; and ancient hags.

So basically, making a pact with them means you’re a Disney movie that’s waiting to happen.

The Fiend

You have made a pact with a fiend from the lower planes of existence, a being whose aims are evil, even if you strive against those aims. Such beings desire the corruption or destruction of all things, ultimately including you. Fiends powerful enough to forge a pact include demon lords such as Demogorgon, Orcus, Fraz’Urb-luu, and Baphomet; archdevils such as Asmodeus, Dispater, Mephistopheles, and Belial; pit fiends and balors that are especially mighty; and ultroloths and other lords of the yugoloths.

I know a guy named Johnny who became a superhero this way.

The Great Old One

Your patron is a mysterious entity whose nature is utterly foreign to the fabric o f reality. It might come from the Far Realm, the space beyond reality, or it could be one of the elder gods known only in legends. Its motives are incomprehensible to mortals, and its knowledge so immense and ancient that even the greatest libraries pale in comparison to the vast secrets it holds. The Great Old One might be unaware of your existence or entirely indifferent to you, but the secrets you have learned allow you to draw your magic from it. Entities of this type include Ghaunadar, called That Which Lurks; Tharizdun, the Chained God; Dendar, the Night Serpent; Zargon, the Returner; Great Cthulhu; and other unfathomable beings.

See they’re not evil! They just don’t care! I’m merely an ant to these things. (Which suits me just fine if I can get a hold of all that mind power! Just y’all wait. I will succeed where that fool Curwen did not! MWAHAHAHAHAH!! :whacky

 

[RGCheek]

Oh no, not this again…

I will admit, I do have heartburn when the names of actual demons are mentioned in the game (some of the “statted, therefore you can kill them” villains are Asmodeus and Beelzebub, and in one issue of Dragon someone unofficially statted up Satan – that one was quickly forgotten and is an old shame for painfully obvious reasons – that does bug me, as real-life evil forces should not crop up in a game. But OTOH, DMs can easily ignore or exclude those names from the game.)

That doesn’t mean I think that having a villain summon demons and end up having his comeuppance come either at the claws of said demons or at the swords of adventurers putting an end to him is harmful to souls. I don’t like (and as a DM actively forbid) heroes or player characters from summoning demons, as it is not a heroic act or one to be emulated by players. But to say that its mere existence in a fantasy game is inherently Satanist is a bridge too far for me. It’s how it’s used.

I doubt that Satan inspired Gary Gygax to create D&D. It is, when played right, a good and wholesome activity. However, he can use careless players as tools.

Then again, he can use beer, which is good and beneficial and a sign that God loves us very much, to turn careless drinkers into alcoholics. Or sex, which in the form intended by God is a live giving act, into a selfish and narcissistic and mortally sinful behavior. Or food, necessary to life, can easily become gluttony. None of those things are evil in and of themselves. Everything is good and is blessed by God. It is how it is used or abused that turns it sinful and evil. And it is that potential that the Devil corrupts with.

All of that being said, if Holy Mother Church were to exercise her ordinary magesterium and explicitly tell us that D&D or other RPGs were sinful, I would stop playing them out of obedience. But no such pronouncement has been made as far as I know.

I have played DnD since 1974 and played Pathfinder until recently (my back wont let me sit for that long any more.)

No one actually does anything evil in these games, and the Christians I know that run these games don’t allow for evil characters to be played.

I think the biggest problem with these games is the time sink that they represent, but then again that could be any game these days.

 

[RGCheek]

Warlocks? Meh. I want my wizards to have 1d4 hit dice, a dagger and magic missile.

lol, my last character was a 15th level mythic Wizard/archmage.

The best wizards are the ones that buff/debuff and alter the battlefield to the parties advantage. The Nukers are kind of lame.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

lol, my last character was a 15th level mythic Wizard/archmage.

The best wizards are the ones that buff/debuff and alter the battlefield to the parties advantage. The Nukers are kind of lame.

Hey, I’ll have you know that there is a fine art to nuking stuff.

 

[RGCheek]

Hey, I’ll have you know that there is a fine art to nuking stuff.

Yeah, I’ve heard that one before…“Do I fireball all of them into crispy little ashes or lightning bolt them all into static dust?”

“OK, FIREBALL!” rolls 12 dice…totals 28 damage and the barbarian giggles, “I did that on my last secondary swing!”

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Yeah, I’ve heard that one before…“Do I fireball all of them into crispy little ashes or lightning bolt them all into static dust?”

“OK, FIREBALL!” rolls 12 dice…totals 28 damage and the barbarian giggles, “I did that on my last secondary swing!”

Pff. No, no. It’s about efficiency and precision!

Gnome Bard: Oh no! Bad guy flying away on Griffin!

Me: hurls Hellfire Brimstone Spear = 200 ft-range 14d6 fire missile

Bad guy: burns

Gnome: Okay… how do we follow him?

Me: Follow the smoke… and the screams. BD

 

[RGCheek]

Pff. No, no. It’s about efficiency and precision!

Gnome Bard: Oh no! Bad guy flying away on Griffin!

Me: hurls Hellfire Brimstone Spear = 200 ft-range 14d6 fire missile

Bad guy: burns

Gnome: Okay… how do we follow him?

Me: Follow the smoke… and the screams. BD

Well, I will concede that a 15th level nuker could on a good day in the right circumstances replace a 3rd level rangers tracking ability.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Well, I will concede that a 15th level nuker could on a good day in the right circumstances replace a 3rd level rangers tracking ability.

There’s a certain convenience when you have the fantasy equivalent of a bazooka at your fingertips. I’m sure a ballista can compared but man, carrying one around sounds exhausting.

 

[RGCheek]

There’s a certain convenience when you have the fantasy equivalent of a bazooka at your fingertips. I’m sure a ballista can compared but man, carrying one around sounds exhausting.

OK, Bazzooka spell does lets say 15d6, for an average of 3.5, but lets say 4 damage per die. That is 60 damage with a saving throw that cuts it in half if made or reduces it to zero if they have the right class abilities or feats.

But a haste spell that affects say 4 barbarians that are doing 15 points per hit, getting an extra 60 points of no saving throw damage per round for one round per level that is 900 damage.

Yes, play with your puny bazooka while my barbarians cut through your body guards like a hot knife through butter, my friend.



Meanwhile, after the Haste, I then Quickened cast ‘Slow’ your group, and throw up a stone wall that cuts your party in half while my barbarians go after the half you and your healer are caught in…

MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Yes, play with your puny bazooka while my barbarians cut through your body guards like a hot knife through butter, my friend.

They not bodyguards! They my friends! XP walks up to friends Hey guys, made anything broken today?

Friends: puts down wad of character sheets

In all seriousness though, I think we can all make a Justice League of Neverwinter at the rate anyone can make a character these days.

I’m getting a lotta juicy ideas just from reading this 5th ed PHB. @w@