Demonic possession of a christian

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This is mostly in response to Nathan’s post:I failed to note in my previous post that the posessed usually does not have an actually strong desire to be saved or go to heaven even though it seems that they are devout. The most susceptable people to posession are those who have been involved with satanic or new age energy practices.
Usually, it seems, the only reason God allows posession is to teach us something. If it is possible for a christian in a state of grace to be posessed it seems like this would be to see the person dominate satan in the end with the help of God. This is one reason I personally doubt the Annelise Michel story. Furthermore exorcism is less than the sacraments. The sacraments are the most powerfull spiritual forces on earth.
The German bishops conference did officially come out and say that a mistake had been made. I doubt that this is on the level of doctrine, but they are probably right.
 
Except in extraordinarily rare exceptions, a person in a state of grace cannot be possessed by the devil without that person’s consent. Possession means that the devil controls and dwells within your body. (to ask why a person in a state of grace would consent to the devil’s presence is the same as asking why a person in a state of grace would lose that state of grace by commiting a mortal sin…we know it happens daily)

Many Saints were tormented by the devil, but this was a manifestation of demonic power not within the person. For example, St. J. Vianey (the Cure of Ars) was tormented by demons, they would throw things at him while he was trying to pray, break things, scream and howl at night to keep him from sleeping or praying. Sometimes they bodily tossed him across the room and even beat him. But he was not possesed. Neither was Job, or St. Paul, or Saint Pio. The demons had no control over their actions and did not dwell within them.

Playing with the occult (tarot, ouiji boards, etc.) is opening the front door and inviting demons to take up residence. The grace of Baptism often is the only thing keeping them out, and should the person fall into mortal sin, then possesion is a real possibility. Even without being completely possessed, tinkering with the occult can give demons control in our lives.

I only know of 2 people that were at times possessed that have been beatified. One is Father Giovanni Calabria and the other is Sister Mary of Jesus Crucified. In both cases, without any fault of their own, they were subjected to true satanic possession and did thing while the devil had control of their body that they would never have done of their own will.God allowed this in order to accomplish a greater good.
 
Affirmed, just to clarify or give an example of being sinned against giving legal ground to a demon, is in the case of a friend of mine. when she was very young, her father sexually abused her, obviously through no fault of her own, yet she then was still possesed by demons which were cast out some 15 years later in her early 20s. and about being in a state of grace, i dont want to sound like i konw, because i dont, but it sounds alot like the argument that “because we’re christian, we dont need to worry about demons, they cant hurt us” yes, sacraments remove all ground for the demon to be there, and probably extrememly weaken them, but from what ive heard (once again, not fact as i konw), they need to be actually told to leave before they have any reason, or else they are allowed to just hang around untill the next time you screw up… just a thought
 
jax- It is just that I have serious doubts that her demonic possesion (BTW, was this a Church verified possesion) being linked to her abuse as a child.
 
****Affirmed said:But I do know that the soul is not culpable for its actions while under possesion. Honestly, I don’t really have a solid answer for this one.I think that demons can possess one’s body, but cannot control one’s soul. I’m really not sure on that,

The soul is NOT culpable for its actions while under possession, also the demons cannot control the soul as they have no power over the soul only the body. Only God has power with the soul.

Very nice post above, with regard to why God allows this to happen. Well said.!

God Bless
Sara****
 
I;m not sure what makes it a church approved posession, but it was a preist who dealt with the whole thing, during a prayer group that they have every week. a lot more people have demons that anyone realizes, they dont take control of the body most of the time, they just make life a living hell…
 
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ruby:
but wasn’t this girl that the movie exorcism of emily rose was about ~ wasn’t she a very devout catholic?

i like what you said about the devil and that he can’t do anything unless God permits it. that is so true and something we should all think about more often. all the temptations and test are really a training ground to build us up and make us into what God expects us to be.

i still want to know if it is possible for a devout christian to become possessed by the devil.

also when the devil possess someone he possesses them in body only ~ right?
thanks again
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the Chruch determined she wasn’t possessed…
or, that’s what i understand…

🙂
 
**the Chruch determined she wasn’t possessed…
or, that’s what i understand

Hi Jax,
The church has to determine if indeed it is a demonic force before approval .

The girl Emily , which her real name is Isabelle and she resides in Germany had a Church approved exorcism by the Catholic Church and found the girl to be under demonic possesion. The true story took place in 1976 , the movie was of course based on this true story**.
 
and what exactly is “the church determined”? So if Fr. David Bernard ( a very charismatic preist around my home) excercized a demon, and is in good standing with the church, does that make it church approved? or is there some higher approval necessary. and there are a lot more demonic workings that just within catholics, i have seen deliverences at protestant events, and they were just as real as at a catholic one…
 
I have trouble beliveing in “Protestant deliverances”. Secondly, a Bishop must approve an exorcism before it is performed.
 
Protestants may not have all the truth, but they still have some, and they still worship the same God… the way you say that, you still have a lot to learn about the body of Christ (and i do not mean the eucharist), some Protestants are more Catholic than a lot of Catholics in North America
 
I’m curious about two things:
  1. In the real life incident that this movie is supposedly based on, did the girl actually claim to have seen the Virgin Mary? If the answer is yes, did she (Mary) actually say what the movie claims she said?
  2. Did the girl really have wounds on her hands and feet at the time of her death?
I have tried to find the answers to these questions on-line without success.
 
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ruby:
i tried posting this earlier but it didn’t take

can someone help me explain to my brother and evangelical the answer to this question that he posed to me regarding the movie about emily rose:

I never really believed that a true Christian could be demon possessed. If they can’t stand God’s name or crucifixes and holy water how can they enter someone who has the Holy Spirit living in them? Because of their wickedness, how could they stand to occupy God’s temple with His perfect and infinite holiness?
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Don’t know, but here is a case of God allowing a person to be posessed to show that He is really in that little Communion wafer.
olrl.org/stories/exorcism.shtml

And heres a more famous story, this is what happens when you play with fire ! catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0137.html
 
keep in mind, the church determined that this was not a
real possession…

and, i’m of the opinion that someone who truly has the
Holy Spirit can’t be possessed by an evil spirit…

but, that’s just an opinion…

🙂
 
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jax8686:
and what exactly is “the church determined”? So if Fr. David Bernard ( a very charismatic preist around my home) excercized a demon, and is in good standing with the church, does that make it church approved? or is there some higher approval necessary. and there are a lot more demonic workings that just within catholics, i have seen deliverences at protestant events, and they were just as real as at a catholic one…
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In reply to “Jax8686” - NO WAY could a Protestant EVER be “as real” as a Catholic! Protestants are schismatics and heretics. I recently learned that many of the famous Protestant ministers you see on morning television; i.e. Joyce Meyer, Creflo Dollar, Charles Stanley, to name a few - are heretics. Do the research yourself on-line, you’ll see. You’ll be shocked at what you find they believe in.
 
First of all, I would reccommend that everyone here read Fr. Gabriel Amorths book An Exorcist Tells His Stories. Fr. Amorth is a modern day priest dealing with modern day people and has performed thousands upon thousands of exorcisms.

First, exorcism simply means blessing.

Second, one thing to realize is this. A person in a state of grace will most likely not be ( I have even heard will not be) possessed by the devil. However, anyone, including those in a state of grace can be oppressed by the devil. This means the devil does not enter us but can oppress us. All of this is only done because God allows it to take place. The devil can attack us via our health, home, business and family. We can be tempted by the devil and fall into sin because of those temptations.

Third, a person can become possessed when he goes to see a sorcerer, fortune teller, seer and any other involved with the occult. When you go to these type of people you open yourself upon to the devil and his minions.

Fourth, a person can be possessed by eating, drinking or even sleeping on a cursed object. A sorcerer can curse these things and put a “spell” on a particular person. There are many documented cases of this.

Fifth, any person who lives a life of prayer, scripture reading, and devotion to our Lord is usually protected from these things. Again, if anything happens to you because of a demon or the devil, remember, our Lord allows it for His glory…that His Name be made known.

Sixth, the devil or a demon CANNOT whatsoever take a persons soul!!! Our soul belongs to God and the devil has no reign over it!!! Even if a Christian were to become possessed it is only this earthly body that is battered…the devil cannot have our soul.

Seventh, there is ALOT more I could say… but I will end with this paraphrase from Saint Therese of Lisuex. She was speaking to demons and she said, ’ You cannot do anything to me!! If you do anything to me it is only because My Master, who is your Master as well, has allowed you to! I do not fear you!!"

DO NOT FEAR THE DEVIL OR HIS DEMONS. We must remain strong. Saint Therese also said that demons feed off of our fears when we encounter them and they can take us and run with those fears. We have nothing to fear. Why? Because even IF something happens, it is our Master and theirs who has allowed it. Look at Job, the classic example of one oppressed by the devil. Saint Padre Pio is another example of a grace filled man oppressed by the devil himself! Saint Therese said when we come in the Name of Jesus the demons flee from the light and they are weak and trembling!! To give an example of this, there are documented cases of exorcisms in which lower ranking demons i.e. not Satan or any of his chief leaders cannot even say the name of Jesus or our Blessed Mother!! Instead these demons say, " Your boss" or “Your Lady” or even " The Great Lady" Only Satan and those “chief” demons can say the Name of Jesus and Mary and even this is followed by strings of blasphemy.
 
PART 2…

To sum it all up. How can we combat the devil? Stay in a life of constant daily prayer. Go to confession as often as possible, even weekly if you can. Attend Mass every Sunday and any day possible. Receive the Sacraments! Protect yourself against the devil by doing these things. Ask our Blessed Mother to wrap you in her cloak and protect you. She will do so.

The scripture reading from Saint Michael, Raphael and Gabriels day said,

Revelation 12:7-12

Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they were defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world–he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. 11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. 12 Rejoice then, O heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!” Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they were defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world–he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. 11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. 12 Rejoice then, O heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”

The last verse says that the devil knows his time is short!! He will attack us with vengenace. He cannot take our souls but we have the choice to give our souls to him. Let us stand firm in this day of battle!! Let us gird up our loins and be as soldiers ready to fight for Truth and the Name of Our Lord Jesus Christ! Do NOT be afraid!!

Come quickly Lord Jesus, come quickly.
 
Is this an official ruling of the magisterium? This young woman was *not *possessed? Does this mean the Church may sometimes approve an exorcism without being absolutely sure about the cause of someone’s behaviour?
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Johnny, remember that an exorcism is actually a blessing! The Church can and will approve exorcisms even if they are not sure the person is actually possessed. Sometimes it is only through an exorcism that a priest can find out if the person is possessed. This is why it is so very important if a priest can have a doctor present during an exorcism. A doctor would be able to spot things say, psychologically, that a priest may not be able to. A priest is not a doctor, but always remember, neither is a doctor a priest.

Edit:
Well, I was just thinking about it…and I know that it was under consideration to put into the New Rite of Exorcism that it is neccessary to prove demonic influence first…before an exorcism is approved. I need to do some research and see if this actually took place or not! I do know that two Cardinals allowed provisions to be made in the New Rite that with the permission of the Bishop a priest may use the Old Rite if he wants to.
 
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