Demonic strategy

[MtnDwellar]

I have never put enough thought into this if I ever considered it at all. I wonder if that is pride working in me. It could go either way logically from what I can see right now. Pride could cause them to manifest depending on the situation would you agree? Do you have anything to support this?

Yes. Pride could compel them to manifest. The problem with that is that the manifestations are generally not so grand that a demon could find a lot to be proud of. The manifestations are generally fairly easily recreated by either you or me.

My support is just observations. When someone is confronted with a demonic manifestation they almost never seek out Satanists and begin to worship. They recognize that an enemy is at work and seek God - right? The demons don’t want to send us toward God, hence I believe that they are compelled to manifest. The manifestation is basically a gift from God.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Also, while God is the one really in control He has left them here to tempt us. They do still have free-will (to an extent) until the time, when they will be tormented.

Yes. They have free will, but there still are rules. Free will is not the same as universal power. For example, man has free will, but still must obey the laws of physics. A prisoner can will himself to be water skiing on a lake, but it is not going to happen.

The spirit world is vast and complex. The rules are beyond our comprehension. I know because our material world is so complex that we have multiple sciences with specialties and sub-specialties and one person can only thoroughly understand one small aspect. The spirit world and the material world are both works of the same creator. If we observe God’s material creation we can ascertain that our Creator has a great imagination and an eye for detail. This world is like a guest house. It is temporary. We cannot even imagination the complexity and glory of the world to come.

 

[FaithInTheSon]

Yes. Pride could compel them to manifest. The problem with that is that the manifestations are generally not so grand that a demon could find a lot to be proud of. The manifestations are generally fairly easily recreated by either you or me.

My support is just observations. When someone is confronted with a demonic manifestation they almost never seek out Satanists and begin to worship. They recognize that an enemy is at work and seek God - right? The demons don’t want to send us toward God, hence I believe that they are compelled to manifest. The manifestation is basically a gift from God.

I always viewed it as God using the enemies resources against them. Either way, God’s will is always being done and that is the important part. It’s just a matter of the easy way or the hard way.

 

[MtnDwellar]

I always viewed it as God using the enemies resources against them. Either way, God’s will is always being done and that is the important part. It’s just a matter of the easy way or the hard way.

I see what you are saying. Pride has always been the downfall of the devil.

 

[FaithInTheSon]

Yes. They have free will, but there still are rules. Free will is not the same as universal power. For example, man has free will, but still must obey the laws of physics. A prisoner can will himself to be water skiing on a lake, but it is not going to happen.

The spirit world is vast and complex. The rules are beyond our comprehension. I know because our material world is so complex that we have multiple sciences with specialties and sub-specialties and one person can only thoroughly understand one small aspect. The spirit world and the material world are both works of the same creator. If we observe God’s material creation we can ascertain that our Creator has a great imagination and an eye for detail. This world is like a guest house. It is temporary. We cannot even imagination the complexity and glory of the world to come.

Good post

Right. I doubt anyone would think they have universal power. That is God’s alone.
We can not thoroughly understand actually any one small aspect either.
Our Lord does say “Pay attention to the physical world and you can see what is happening in the spiritual world” (I probably didn’t get that word for word but maybe).
Using this logic, we understand nothing. Nothing other than what is revealed to us anyways.

 

[someperson555]

true, its best not to play the skeptic when it comes to demonic actvity. but in my personal opinion, i think you know if youre dealing with a demon. its not something that you would go around questiong. i mean you just kinda “feel it”, do you know what i mean? i get angry when i see all these “modernized catholics” tell people to go to psychologists. that should never be the first advice. the first advice should always be prayer! because prayer will help wether its a demon or a psychological illness…

 

[MtnDwellar]

On a related thought. We know from the book of Job that Satan met with God and God gave Satan the rules governing his attack on Job.

Is it possible that the same kind of discussion between God and Satan is ongoing with regard to each of us?

 

[FaithInTheSon]

On a related thought. We know from the book of Job that Satan met with God and God gave Satan the rules governing his attack on Job.

Is it possible that the same kind of discussion between God and Satan is ongoing with regard to each of us?

I never considered this. It is actually only logical to consider it as a possibility, considering God’s love for each of us is perfect.

Satan is also the accuser.

However, to pretend to know would be to pretend to know God’s will. I would also think He would have been more specific about it if it were the case, but my logic is flawed.

 

[FaithInTheSon]

true, its best not to play the skeptic when it comes to demonic actvity. but in my personal opinion, i think you know if youre dealing with a demon. its not something that you would go around questiong. i mean you just kinda “feel it”, do you know what i mean? i get angry when i see all these “modernized catholics” tell people to go to psychologists. that should never be the first advice. the first advice should always be prayer! because prayer will help wether its a demon or a psychological illness…

This is a valid point that should not be taken lightly. However, be careful with your pearls in front of swine.

 

[MtnDwellar]

I never considered this. It is actually only logical to consider it as a possibility, considering God’s love for each of us is perfect.

Satan is also the accuser.

However, to pretend to know would be to pretend to know God’s will. I would also think He would have been more specific about it if it were the case, but my logic is flawed.

The book seemed pretty specific. We take a lot of one off examples from the bible and apply them in general.

And another thought… In Job, Satan approaches God. Does that seem strange? God and Satan seem to talk like two CEO’s on a golf course. I take that as meaning that Satan is not God’s enemy. Satan is our enemy or adversary. If Satan was God’s enemy, he would have been fearful and not approached God… Right? or Wrong?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

true, its best not to play the skeptic when it comes to demonic actvity. but in my personal opinion, i think you know if youre dealing with a demon. its not something that you would go around questiong. i mean you just kinda “feel it”, do you know what i mean? i get angry when i see all these “modernized catholics” tell people to go to psychologists. that should never be the first advice. the first advice should always be prayer! because prayer will help wether its a demon or a psychological illness…

For your information, it’s thanks to skeptics that people now have longer life expectancy, receive more humane treatments for illnesses both physical and mental, and have done more to maintain the humanity of the Church than superstitious ‘faith healers’ who see the devil under every rock.

Frankly, I am disturbed to find that many of these posts talk only of either God or the devil. It’s like humanity has no voice, no right, and no recognition as a separate, independent party. We’re not pawns easily subject to the activities and wills of supernatural entities.

Pagans think that way, not Catholics.

 

[someperson555]

For your information, it’s thanks to skeptics that people now have longer life expectancy, receive more humane treatments for illnesses both physical and mental, and have done more to maintain the humanity of the Church than superstitious ‘faith healers’ who see the devil under every rock.

Frankly, I am disturbed to find that many of these posts talk only of either God or the devil. It’s like humanity has no voice, no right, and no recognition as a separate, independent party. We’re not pawns easily subject to the activities and wills of supernatural entities.

Pagans think that way, not Catholics.

well for YOUR information i am very much a rationalist. i am by no means one of these catholics who freak out at anything which doesnt contain christianity.

but from personal experience i can tell you that the demonic is no laughing matter. i made the mistake of trying out an occult thing ONCE with friends, and boy did i pay the price for it.
i know from personal experience that you know when the source of your torment is demonic. its sad to see so many of these people who need spiritual help just wasting away on useless psychiatric drugs. when youre under the attack of a demon, lexapro is not going to help. (although in my opinion psychiatry is useless either way)

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I really do enjoy your posts. One thing I should point out. Do not confuse self-talk with prayer. They are VERY different. Also if you are able to set your sub-conscious on auto-pilot as you describe, make sure it is exclusively conforming with God’s will, and not a compromise with a bad seed. It concerns me that you may have automated yourself to try to merge the bad with the good, which is not what you want. That is a short-cut that Satan wants you to take. This will allow, if I can put it in your terms, a trojan horse your enter your “system”. You will not know it is there, and it will appear benevolent(Satan appears as the “angel of light”). You will have to apply anti-virus (scripture) to every file in your system (every aspect of your memories and thought process) to be sure this did not take place. Even then be careful, because sometimes you are dealing with a “smart-virus” (higher ranking demon) that will try to circumvent these countermeasures in very subtle and cunning ways.

EDIT: When I say smart virus - I mean a “better hacker” in terms of this analogy. The demons would be the hackers, the viruses would be the seeds they plant.

This is why it took me 11 years.

Throughout the Dark Night I was constantly reminded of the limitations of my own thoughts, and any sinful tendencies were exposed as in floodlight. So even my most extreme thoughts, I hold tentatively lest they suppose to be extraordinarily extreme.

I am capable of giving myself very complex instructions – and for now let’s just say by self-talk – which are very robust in terms of not leaving outs or ambiguities. Turns out I can hardly ever do that in an absolute sense purely from thinking thoughts, but with body language, choreography, even somewhat of a “dance” can help. There’s more than that, but it’s just details of how I did it for myself. I know these things are complex but they do have limits. I know because I found them and sure I still have a bit of purging to do, because after two weeks since my Dark Night was “officially” over (says I anyway) I still feel some effects. Often these manifest as microexpressions but if I’m typing they can get into my fingers, too.

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

its sad to see so many of these people who need spiritual help just wasting away on useless psychiatric drugs. when youre under the attack of a demon, lexapro is not going to help. (although in my opinion psychiatry is useless either way)

It’s definitely sad, because the world says this is the best they can hope for. Talk about Low Expectations.

In my opinion there are psychiatrists that are worse than useless, but a good one like I had can truly help by listening, believing in me, and treating the symptoms as symptoms without presuming he can actually fix the underlying problem.

My SD said the reason we get bad advice, such as lexapro to fight a demonic attack, is that the “professionals” are too specialized. You have physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, social, and sexual components and a problem in any of them will often look conveniently to each professional, as if the whole problem were within their particular expertise.

Alan

 

[someperson555]

It’s definitely sad, because the world says this is the best they can hope for. Talk about Low Expectations.

In my opinion there are psychiatrists that are worse than useless, but a good one like I had can truly help by listening, believing in me, and treating the symptoms as symptoms without presuming he can actually fix the underlying problem.

My SD said the reason we get bad advice, such as lexapro to fight a demonic attack, is that the “professionals” are too specialized. You have physical, mental, spiritual, emotional, social, and sexual components and a problem in any of them will often look conveniently to each professional, as if the whole problem were within their particular expertise.

Alan

exactly,
thats a good point. i do acknowledge that there are good psychiatrists out there who are well meaning and actually care about the patient. but the reason its dangerous for people who are having troubles with demons to go to a psychiatrist first is because if the psychiatrist is an atheist and filled with hatred and arrogance towards religion, he will not even consider evil spirits to be a possibility. so he will convince the victim that he is mentally ill, but when the victim realises that the meds arent helping he may get so despaired that he turns to suicide.

my personal belief regarding psychology is that nearly every case can be resolved by the person alone through serious introspection and prayer. i suffered from narcissistic personality disorder, and avoidant personality disorder (i know its a wierd mix). and ofcourse your run of the mill anxiety and depression. currently i am much much better my psychological disorders are pretty much gone. and i never went to a single psychiatrist. i used prayer and obediance to God’s will (which was difficult), but i did it without the use oof any drugs or expensive psychology. or I should say God did it.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

i know from personal experience that you know when the source of your torment is demonic. its sad to see so many of these people who need spiritual help just wasting away on useless psychiatric drugs. when youre under the attack of a demon, lexapro is not going to help. (although in my opinion psychiatry is useless either way)

I’m not saying psychiatry is perfect. I am saying you oughta give science and medicine a little more credit. Those are two different things.

Besides, just because some people can’t get be helped by a shrink doesn’t mean they need an exorcism. There are other forms of healing that our faith can give: Compassion. An open ear. The willingness to help or hear out. You also do people a favor by holding them accountable. Simply put, not all ‘psychological problems’ need either meds or holy water.

There are times when they are just that: regular, human problems.

I don’t buy the Devil-Made-Me-Do-It card any more than justifying be a jerk by reason of supposed ‘insanity’.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Simply put, not all ‘psychological problems’ need either meds or holy water.

I believe that the point here was that holy water never hurts. It is never wrong to ask God for help.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I don’t buy the Devil-Made-Me-Do-It card any more than justifying be a jerk by reason of supposed ‘insanity’.

I agree that the devil doesn’t make us do things. I see his powers falling into three broad categories; he can tempt, accuse, and deceive. When we act on those influences it is our sin, not satan’s.

Being a jerk by reason of supposed “insanity,” though, is not necessarily a cop-out, but I don’t plan to get into details in this thread.

Alan

 

[FaithInTheSon]

I’m not saying psychiatry is perfect. I am saying you oughta give science and medicine a little more credit. Those are two different things.

Besides, just because some people can’t get be helped by a shrink doesn’t mean they need an exorcism. There are other forms of healing that our faith can give: Compassion. An open ear. The willingness to help or hear out. You also do people a favor by holding them accountable. Simply put, not all ‘psychological problems’ need either meds or holy water.

There are times when they are just that: regular, human problems.

I don’t buy the Devil-Made-Me-Do-It card any more than justifying be a jerk by reason of supposed ‘insanity’.

Exorcisms are only necessary if a demon takes over someones body.

Faith in the Lord can solve any problem.

The devil does make people do things. Good thing you are not the one judging people though right, after all who would expect you to know the difference?

Also, the devil doesn’t “make people do things” unless they are possessed. Other wise it is a series of thoughts planted in their mind that sub-consciously snow-ball into an end result of death (if they accomplish their goal).

Take Alan for instance. I have no doubt that demons caused his psychiatric problems. It is evident if you read his story and talk to him. He dug his way out of the hole.

There is a middle ground here, like always.

Psychiatry can help, not as much as faith though.

The scripture is clear about the devil’s influence. What do you think? There is a middle ground? Or do you just “not buy that story”?

 

[FaithInTheSon]

I do agree about the faith healers though.

It is up to a man or woman to get to know his or her Lord while they are alone.

No healer can do that for you. Some might be able to (never met one), but I do see a lot of scams just like you do. That doesn’t mean there is no influence, it means there is no healer.

If you choose to respond to me, I would like to get back on topic soon so let’s not make this too much of a debate (not saying I don’t value your response).