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Faith1960
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I don’t have three hours to spend watching the video.
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Faith1960
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What say you?Just got my copy of An Exorcist Tells His Story, by Gabriele Amorth. The forward is by Fr. Benedict Groeschel and he sounds ver skeptical ablut deminic possession, saying he didn’t initially want to write the forward, that as a pshychologist he has trouble with Fr. Amorths approach.
He said that Fr. Amorth is "by no mens naive abiout the pshychological causes of aberrant behavior his own work is not a form of psychotherapy.
He writes about “those possessed by evil spirits” in quotation marks.
I googled him and it said online that his forward is “tepid” an that he has seen diabolical oppression, but never in his years as a priest has he seen diabolical possession.
If he’s skeptical, we should be, too.
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mikekle
Guest
True… and I guess if someone is or gets possessed, it was allowed by God to take place, (since demons need Gods OK to do anything and everything), so its in his plan for that person apparently, or else he would not have let it happen.mysticsofthechurch.com/2014/01/blessed-maria-bolognesi-mystic-who.html
See link above about a mystic who was possessed. Some people are possessed for the accomplishment of God’s designs – not because they are unholy or are not seeking salvation. God bless you.
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ready
Guest
Yes, exactly.True… and I guess if someone is or gets possessed, it was allowed by God to take place, (since demons need Gods OK to do anything and everything), so its in his plan for that person apparently, or else he would not have let it happen.
I suspect that most people get possessed because they have opened a door to the devil in their hearts and souls from their involvement with the occult, this I believe is what an exorcist would say. God bless you.
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glendab
Guest
Hello Faith.
The skeptical approach of Father Groeschel is very nuanced. He too, being a rather public figure cannot say everything that seems demonic is and has experienced and then referred folks in his practice to others who do deal with such things. It is well known that some folks actually are mentally ill and part of their delusional states of mind are demons, witches, aliens and Napoleon in the flesh! But Father Groeschel doesn’t outright say what you seem to want to hear: that ALL things that seem demonic are actually mental illness. I know the book well. I have it. Father Amorth is the Founder of the IAE BTW of which Mr. Blai is a member. Their numbers are growing as it is a place to foster vocations that will minister in this regard. It was St. John Paul II who made all the Bishops throughout the world obtain and train and appoint at least one Exorcist in their respective dioceses. Some have taken it very seriously, some are only making a show of compliance. But the ministry is real and active and growing. As one Exorcist says, “it is a Ministry primarily of healing,” and in listening to him I know he is right and he does have a Psychiatrist, a Psychologist and a Medical Doctor helping him on a daily basis and when someone presents to him with a mental illness, they address that, but when they determine that things that are manifesting are actually of a demonic “attachment” (his preferred word for possession/oppression/obsessions) then an Exorcism is performed. Those who Ministry this is do *exactly like Jesus did *and note the difference between epilepsy, mental illness and demonic possession and behave appropriately. They have to - lives depend on them getting it right.
Glenda
Did you watch the Video I posted showing Adam Blai at work on several active/resolved cases? He’s one to watch as well.Just got my copy of An Exorcist Tells His Story, by Gabriele Amorth. The forward is by Fr. Benedict Groeschel and he sounds ver skeptical ablut deminic possession, saying he didn’t initially want to write the forward, that as a pshychologist he has trouble with Fr. Amorths approach.
He said that Fr. Amorth is "by no mens naive abiout the pshychological causes of aberrant behavior his own work is not a form of psychotherapy.
He writes about “those possessed by evil spirits” in quotation marks.
I googled him and it said online that his forward is “tepid” an that he has seen diabolical oppression, but never in his years as a priest has he seen diabolical possession.
If he’s skeptical, we should be, too.
The skeptical approach of Father Groeschel is very nuanced. He too, being a rather public figure cannot say everything that seems demonic is and has experienced and then referred folks in his practice to others who do deal with such things. It is well known that some folks actually are mentally ill and part of their delusional states of mind are demons, witches, aliens and Napoleon in the flesh! But Father Groeschel doesn’t outright say what you seem to want to hear: that ALL things that seem demonic are actually mental illness. I know the book well. I have it. Father Amorth is the Founder of the IAE BTW of which Mr. Blai is a member. Their numbers are growing as it is a place to foster vocations that will minister in this regard. It was St. John Paul II who made all the Bishops throughout the world obtain and train and appoint at least one Exorcist in their respective dioceses. Some have taken it very seriously, some are only making a show of compliance. But the ministry is real and active and growing. As one Exorcist says, “it is a Ministry primarily of healing,” and in listening to him I know he is right and he does have a Psychiatrist, a Psychologist and a Medical Doctor helping him on a daily basis and when someone presents to him with a mental illness, they address that, but when they determine that things that are manifesting are actually of a demonic “attachment” (his preferred word for possession/oppression/obsessions) then an Exorcism is performed. Those who Ministry this is do *exactly like Jesus did *and note the difference between epilepsy, mental illness and demonic possession and behave appropriately. They have to - lives depend on them getting it right.
Glenda
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ready
Guest
Yes, God’s permissive will is involved here.True… and I guess if someone is or gets possessed, it was allowed by God to take place, (since demons need Gods OK to do anything and everything), so its in his plan for that person apparently, or else he would not have let it happen.
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Faith1960
Guest
I watched about a minute of it and that was enough. You didn’t link us to your second video.Hello Faith.
Did you watch the Video I posted showing Adam Blai at work on several active/resolved cases? He’s one to watch as well.
The skeptical approach of Father Groeschel is very nuanced. He too, being a rather public figure cannot say everything that seems demonic is and has experienced and then referred folks in his practice to others who do deal with such things. It is well known that some folks actually are mentally ill and part of their delusional states of mind are demons, witches, aliens and Napoleon in the flesh! But Father Groeschel doesn’t outright say what you seem to want to hear: that ALL things that seem demonic are actually mental illness. I know the book well. I have it. Father Amorth is the Founder of the IAE BTW of which Mr. Blai is a member. Their numbers are growing as it is a place to foster vocations that will minister in this regard. It was St. John Paul II who made all the Bishops throughout the world obtain and train and appoint at least one Exorcist in their respective dioceses. Some have taken it very seriously, some are only making a show of compliance. But the ministry is real and active and growing. As one Exorcist says, “it is a Ministry primarily of healing,” and in listening to him I know he is right and he does have a Psychiatrist, a Psychologist and a Medical Doctor helping him on a daily basis and when someone presents to him with a mental illness, they address that, but when they determine that things that are manifesting are actually of a demonic “attachment” (his preferred word for possession/oppression/obsessions) then an Exorcism is performed. Those who Ministry this is do *exactly like Jesus did *and note the difference between epilepsy, mental illness and demonic possession and behave appropriately. They have to - lives depend on them getting it right.
Glenda
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glendab
Guest
Hello Faith.
youtube.com/watch?v=Xt2TAI4Jg5U
Glenda
I think you have me confused with someone else. Here is the link to the only video I posted. It is actually very good.I watched about a minute of it and that was enough. You didn’t link us to your second video.
youtube.com/watch?v=Xt2TAI4Jg5U
Glenda
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Faith1960
Guest
No, that’s the one. OK, I watched a little more of it and again, that’s,enough.Hello Faith.
I think you have me confused with someone else. Here is the link to the only video I posted. It is actually very good.
youtube.com/watch?v=Xt2TAI4Jg5U
Glenda
I wonder though, just how well the possessed people are examined by psychologists and psychiatrists.
Somewhere, I think it’s the book I was talking about yesterday, there was a carefully worded sentence that said something about patients not having any known mental illness or something to that effect. Leaves open the possibility that they might be sick in the head with something unusual the doctor cant diagnose.
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Faith1960
Guest
Also, what about the time(s) people have died during exorcism and the priest faced charges?No, that’s the one. OK, I watched a little more of it and again, that’s,enough.
I wonder though, just how well the possessed people are examined by psychologists and psychiatrists.
Somewhere, I think it’s the book I was talking about yesterday, there was a carefully worded sentence that said something about patients not having any known mental illness or something to that effect. Leaves open the possibility that they might be sick in the head with something unusual the doctor cant diagnose.
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ynotzap
Guest
I have no doubt that Satan can work through a persons mental illness, this is not to say the person is possessed. He works through all our weaknesses, especially through the effects and sin and original sin. This state or condition is what Christ came to redeem and heal by His Grace. I have experienced this many times personally. Anyone who is sincere in doings God’s work can expect it. We have to love the sinner, and hate the sin. Holy people like St. Padre Pio, St. John Vianny, and St. Theresa have been affected bodily, but not possessed. I don’t put myself in their class, but you and I are children of God, so I have been affected bodily by a devil in his efforts to deceive me, and consequently the probability of deceiving others through me. But I did understand something about spiritual discernment from St. Ignatius that helped me to analyze the experience. Even my wife help with a case, if I had followed my own inclination, it would have destroyed a relationship that was necessary to bring a person closer to Christ. Our Lady says they are astute, smart, knowledgeable and clever, they are fallen, but still are angels superior to us in their power. They are not superior to the Holy Spirit, and if we follow His lead,we will know how to deal with the situation, and have help to do it. Prayer and humility, and love are indispensable.
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Faith1960
Guest
Annalise Michel (spelling) died in the 70s because her parents and priest believed she was possessed, and rather than continue getting her medical and psychiatric help, opted for months of exorcism where she died of dehydration and nourishment.I have no doubt that Satan can work through a persons mental illness, this is not to say the person is possessed. He works through all our weaknesses, especially through the effects and sin and original sin. This state or condition is what Christ came to redeem and heal by His Grace. I have experienced this many times personally. Anyone who is sincere in doings God’s work can expect it. We have to love the sinner, and hate the sin. Holy people like St. Padre Pio, St. John Vianny, and St. Theresa have been affected bodily, but not possessed. I don’t put myself in their class, but you and I are children of God, so I have been affected bodily by a devil in his efforts to deceive me, and consequently the probability of deceiving others through me. But I did understand something about spiritual discernment from St. Ignatius that helped me to analyze the experience. Even my wife help with a case, if I had followed my own inclination, it would have destroyed a relationship that was necessary to bring a person closer to Christ. Our Lady says they are astute, smart, knowledgeable and clever, they are fallen, but still are angels superior to us in their power. They are not superior to the Holy Spirit, and if we follow His lead,we will know how to deal with the situation, and have help to do it. Prayer and humility, and love are indispensable.
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MtnDwellar
Guest
Although Anneliese’s parents and the priests were convicted of manslaughter, the true causes of her death are not certain. There is a recent theory that she died from poisoning due to one of her medications - Tegretal.Annalise Michel (spelling) died in the 70s because her parents and priest believed she was possessed, and rather than continue getting her medical and psychiatric help, opted for months of exorcism where she died of dehydration and nourishment.
The exorcism was approved by the Bishop and conducted by two priests. Annalise’s parents, the Bishop, and the priests all thought she was possessed. I tend to trust the judgement of the Bishop, the exorcists and others who were directly involved.
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Faith1960
Guest
There’s probably no way to know how competent her doctors were, so there’s no way we can know it was a true possession, which I’ve read many times is rare anyway.Although Anneliese’s parents and the priests were convicted of manslaughter, the true causes of her death are not certain. There is a recent theory that she died from poisoning due to one of her medications - Tegretal.
The exorcism was approved by the Bishop and conducted by two priests. Annalise’s parents, the Bishop, and the priests all thought she was possessed. I tend to trust the judgement of the Bishop, the exorcists and others who were directly involved.
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mikekle
Guest
Do you think a person possessed by a demon or demons, would know they were possessed? I wonder if the demons would cause the person to think its just them going crazy, and not some supernatural explanation…?Yes, exactly.
I suspect that most people get possessed because they have opened a door to the devil in their hearts and souls from their involvement with the occult, this I believe is what an exorcist would say. God bless you.
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MtnDwellar
Guest
I am not sure what you mean. It seems like you are saying that competent doctors can discern whether or not a person is possessed.There’s probably no way to know how competent her doctors were, so there’s no way we can know it was a true possession, which I’ve read many times is rare anyway.
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Faith1960
Guest
No, but they can confirm or deny physical and mental illnesses.I am not sure what you mean. It seems like you are saying that competent doctors can discern whether or not a person is possessed.
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MtnDwellar
Guest
Yes. Either or both can exist along with possession.No, but they can confirm or deny physical and mental illnesses.
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Faith1960
Guest
I know, but we don’t know if that was the case with her. I’m curious how good or process her medical care.Yes. Either or both can exist along with possession.
Also, their bishop initially refused permission to do her exorcism, so he must’ve had doubts that she,was possessed.
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Kurisu35712
Guest
I believe in both demonic oppression/possession and mental illnesses. I don’t think it’s fair to people suffering from mental illnesses to claim that all of their problems are due to demons (not saying anyone has claimed that). People with mental illnesses need to have their symptoms, and causes in the case of chemical imbalances, treated; likewise, people suffering from demonic influence need to have their problems treated.
I find it dangerous to deny the existence of and influence demons can have over us. I also find it equally dangerous to deny mental illness in favor of demonic causes. The Vatican has doctors and psychiatrists evaluate individuals for that very reason.
I find it dangerous to deny the existence of and influence demons can have over us. I also find it equally dangerous to deny mental illness in favor of demonic causes. The Vatican has doctors and psychiatrists evaluate individuals for that very reason.
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