Denied communion thought not a protestant

[RyanL]

Matthew 25:

Well, this is an area of difference in interpretation. I know that most of the folks’ here interpretations of this is that “the church” is the Catholic Church.

My interpretation is that “the church” is not a denomination but a people - the people of God and of His Son, Jesus Christ. So, I would interpret this as meaning that one should go to other Christians to resolve the problem.

Matthew 25,

I’ll start with the question not addressed to me, and move on to the section above.

The position of the Church is that you are a brother in Christ, with Christ living in you. The position of the Church is also that there is no salvation outside of the Church. Does this mean that you cannot be saved? Not at all. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says the following:
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[838](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/838.htm’) "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323

It is through that imperfect communion that they may be saved. For those who do not know Christ through no fault of their own, we entrust them to the mercy of God. The Catholic Church condemns no one to Hell - that’s not our place. We have the keys to Heaven, not Hell (Matt 16:19).

Now as to my question…you really haven’t answered it. Please use my hypothetical of the wife who wants an abortion and the husband who wants to stop her. He has already brought a few Christian friends as per Matt 18:16, but that didn’t work. Now what? Where do you go? Can you just pick whoever supports your views (Catholic, Baptist, etc.) and expect your wife to obey? The Bible says that the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of the truth (1 Tim 3:15); is there more than one Truth? I thought Jesus was the way, the TRUTH, and the life. Is there more than one Jesus? If there is only one Jesus, and only one Truth, but all of these various “Christian” groups teach contrary doctrine…how could you say that all of these non-truths can be the Truth, the church, which is the Body of Christ (Col 1:24)? Can you see how that makes no sense?

Also, if you let us know your infirmaties, we can pray for you.

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[Brendan]

Matthew 25:

.

But I don’t quite understand why the priests won’t let me and my wife and son participate in communion with them during Mass.

As mentioned, Communion is a sign of unity, (hence the name). This is, at it’s core, a Communion of belief.

To recieve Communion in the Catholic Church is to accept and hold ALL that the Catholic Church holds and teaches.

You have to ask yourself, do you, in fact, believe all that the Catholic Church teaches, are you in Communion with those beliefs?

If not, you would be going to that altar and willfully lying to all those present.

 

[E.E.N.S]

As far as salvation outside the Church:

**“Outside the Church there is no salvation” **

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

 

[E.E.N.S]

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.334

 

[AquinasXVI]

Matthew:

Hello! I do have a question. If you say that you believe the teachings and generally agree with most of them, why the definitive doubt as to entering the church?

What are the crucial issues that prevent you from partaking from something that you deem beautiful, noble and true?

in XT

 

[E.E.N.S]

Matthew 25:

Well, this is an area of difference in interpretation. I know that most of the folks’ here interpretations of this is that “the church” is the Catholic Church.

My interpretation is that “the church” is not a denomination but a people - the people of God and of His Son, Jesus Christ. So, I would interpret this as meaning that one should go to other Christians to resolve the problem.

I have one final thought. You know, every day that I watch the news I see evil increasing in the world. I see growing darkness, hatred and depravity and rebellion against God.

But we - all of those who call upon the Name of Christ - carry within each one of us the light of Christ. We have answers for this increasingly depraved world. In m any ways, we are greatly outnumbered, but we have the power of God working within us.

I believe that God is bringing all of His people into unity in what may be these last days (I realize this is arguable). Now, I am not saying our denominational differences are going to disappear. But I think we are going to come together in unity in Christ to bring about a great harvest of souls before Jesus’ Second Coming.

God bless each and every one of you.

I could write a book on this, but I will only leave a short overview for the moment (I have a splinter in one of my fingertips, a cut on the other, and I just received 3 or 4 faxes here at work, lol.)

Jesus established a Church (which Scripture calls His “Body” (cf. Eph 1:22-23), His “Bride” (cf. Eph 5:25-32), and the “pillar and foundation of truth” (cf. 1 Tim 3:15). Jesus chose to found the Church so that His followers could be spiritually guided, nourished and reconciled throughout their earthly lives in preparation to spend eternal life with God in heaven.

The Catholic Church is not a denomination, it is Christ’s Church. If Christ is the Way, the TRUTH and the Life, then it would be important not to vear from that Truth, correct?

Plus, what better reason to be Catholic than to receive the Eucharist?!

 

[E.E.N.S]

Another quote from the CCC:

(804) That there is only one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church we are compelled by faith to believe and hold, and we firmly believe in her and sincerely confess her, outside of whom there is neither salvation nor remission of sins…] She represents one mystical Body; the head of this body is Christ, but the head of Christ is God. In her there is “one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Eph 4:5)…]

This one and unique Church, therefore, has not two heads, like a monster, but one body and one head, viz., Christ and his vicar, Peter’s successor, for the Lord said to Peter personally: “Feed my sheep” (John 21:17). ‘My’ he said in general, not individually, meaning these or those; whereby it is understood that he confided all his sheep to him. If therefore Greeks or others say that they were not confided to Peter and his successors, they must necessarily confess that they are not among Christ’s sheep, for the Lord said in John: “there shall be one fold and one shephard” (John 10:16).

 

[Orionthehunter]

There are alot of very good explanations on here why a non-Catholic is not to recieve the Eucharist. To summarize the Church’s position on the Eucharist and the Sacraments of Confession, Confirmation, Holy Orders, and I believe Annointing of the Sick, the Church believes that these are sacraments instituted by Christ and given to the Church in stewardship. This stewardship requires them to administer them faithfully by requiring certain conditions to be met for their distribution to the Faithful. In each of these cases, certain requirements must be met according to the Church’s regulations. To do otherwise would be insulting to Jesus Christ who gave them to the Church to safeguard.

Despite these explanations, I understand that to a lot of non-Catholics this appears to be a rule that singles them out and is divisive. However this is not true. The Church also proscribes that there are many circumstances that preclude Catholics from also recieving Communion, particularly Catholics who have a mortal sin on their soul for which they are required to go to Confession and recieve absolution prior to recieving the Eucharist. In these situations they are urged to pray for a Spiritual Communion with their Christian brethren. I believe this option is available to non-Catholics and is within the spirit of which you aspire to accomplish by recieving Communion.

My Jesus, I believe You are truly present in the most Blessed Sacrament. I love You above all things and I desire to possess You within my soul. Since I am unable now to receive You sacramentally, come at least spiritually into my heart. I embrace You as being already there, and I unite myself wholly to You; never, never permit me to be seperated from You.

(Prayer of St. Alphonsus Liguori)

 

[WhatMeWorry]

Matthew 25:

I am extremely doubtful that I will become Catholic. There are only a few obstacles to that, but they are pretty big obstacles.

If your obstacles involve matters of understanding certain aspects of the Catholic faith, please feel free to post your questions to the forums. I’m sure you’ll receive lots of answers and suggestions.

Why not “offer up” your obstacles to the Lord? No mountain is too high for Him. Keep your heart and your mind open. If it is His will, then the doors will open wide for you.

I’ll keep you in my prayers. I’m a convert, so I know how hard it can be to cross the Tiber.

 

[Matthew_25]

Hi folks,

Happy Friday to all!

Thank you for your responses to my recent posts.

I think we are getting the the core of the issue of how Catholic and non-Catholic Christians have different ways of understanding and interpreting the Gospel.

Now, before I go on. I want you to understand that I respect Catholic beliefs and I respect you all as human beings, created in the image of God.

I think the main issue of “differences of interpretation” here is the argument that “the church” means the Catholic Church. I don’t see this. My interpretation of Scripture is that references to “the church” and the “Body of Christ” are references to people who know and love Jesus Christ - Catholic, protestant, whatever.

Put yourselves in my shoes and see how some of this kind of dialogue “feels” to me, a person who has loved and served Jesus Christ faithfully for the past 29 years.

“Since one’s relationship with God the Father and Jesus Christ must be defined and carried out through His Church, the Roman Catholic Church, you are out of the mix, buddy. You may feel a spiritual kinship with us, but unless you covert to Catholicism we can never feel a spiritual kinship with you.”

To the friend who asks me what keeps me from becoming Catholic, this is probably the main issue.

To the friend who asked me essentially about spiritual authority, I believe this authority comes in two ways: 1. From Holy Scripture (upon which I base my entire life) and 2. From the leading and revelation of the Holy Spirit at work in my life.

On this question of authority, I am disabled now and only able to minister on a fairly limited basis, but I am an ordained non-denominational evangelical minister. When I have ministered and do minister, I do so as Jesus taught - being a shepherd to the sheep by serving them, not lording over them.

(I am not saying that Catholic priests are not shepherd-like, because I know many of them personally who are and I enjoy their fellowship).

I guess the main issue I see the Holy Spirit raising in my postings and their responses:

Do we look to a future of repeatedly waging little “Northern Ireland” battles with one another, Catholics against Protestants; Protestant against Catholic?"

(When I was young, I walked around the playground of my grade school with a “Win With Kennedy” button on my chest. Other kids came up to me and taunted me, saying things like, “My Dad says John Kennedy is a CATHOLIC and he would never vote for a Catholic!”)

Or, do we ty to find ground that is common for all of us - the person of Jesus Christ. And, the fruit of His teachings on crucial issues of our time like abortion, euthenasia (Terri Schiavo, bless her soul), concern about and care for the poor, justice for all peoples, mercy and compassion expressed in tangible ways, etc.

Maybe I am delusional, butI still believe that we have much more in common than we have differences.

 

[Mickey]

Matthew 25:

I should add, I have never been argumentative in any way with the priests. I tell them that I respect their doctrines. In fact, one elderly priest told me (he whispered this) that he would have given me communion - I had not gone up and afterwards asked him about church doctrine on communion. That’s when he said he would have given me communion anyway. I guess he didn’t consider me much of a “protestant.”

I seem to recall something buried deep in canon law that talks about non-Catholics receiving the Holy Eucharist if they truly believe they are receiving Christ’s Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. But of course I may be wrong here.

 

[Orionthehunter]

Quote from Mathew 25

I think we are getting the the core of the issue of how Catholic and non-Catholic Christians have different ways of understanding and interpreting the Gospel.

And these differences are very real and it would be a lie for either of us to pretend they don’t exist by partaking in Communion at each others churchs.

I think the main issue of “differences of interpretation” here is the argument that “the church” means the Catholic Church. I don’t see this. My interpretation of Scripture is that references to “the church” and the “Body of Christ” are references to people who know and love Jesus Christ - Catholic, protestant, whatever.

Essentially, this is your interpretation. The Catholic Church teaches very strongly that allowing each individual to make their own interpretations of the Bible leads to division and disunity as we all become our own “Magisterium”. In the Catholic Church’s eyes, this elevation of self is contrary to our right relationship with God.

Put yourselves in my shoes and see how some of this kind of dialogue “feels” to me, a person who has loved and served Jesus Christ faithfully for the past 29 years.

“Since one’s relationship with God the Father and Jesus Christ must be defined and carried out through His Church, the Roman Catholic Church, you are out of the mix, buddy. You may feel a spiritual kinship with us, but unless you covert to Catholicism we can never feel a spiritual kinship with you.”

This is not true. We feel a deep kinship with all non-Catholics as we are all created in God’s Image at the moment that the Holy Spirit breathed life into each of at our conception. Read the discussion in the Catechism wehre it talks about such kinship. However, we also express our profound and deep sadness that there is division that separates us.

To the friend who asked me essentially about spiritual authority, I believe this authority comes in two ways: 1. From Holy Scripture (upon which I base my entire life) and 2. From the leading and revelation of the Holy Spirit at work in my life.

I again reference my above comments on authority.

Or, do we ty to find ground that is common for all of us - the person of Jesus Christ. And, the fruit of His teachings on crucial issues of our time like abortion, euthenasia (Terri Schiavo, bless her soul), concern about and care for the poor, justice for all peoples, mercy and compassion expressed in tangible ways, etc.

Maybe I am delusional, butI still believe that we have much more in common than we have differences.

Absolutely. There is more that binds each and every human being (including even atheists) as we are all called to love and worship God and this is burned into our soul at conception. However, it is a lie to pretend that the division doesn’t exist. For the Catholic Church, because of the Church’s direct line to the Apostles, it believes it has a immutable sacred obligation to remain true to the Bible, Sacred Tradition and the Magisteriam and to deviate from them would be a sin against the Holy Spirit (the only unforgivable sin). It should be noted that the Magisterium and Sacred Tradition (especially the Mass) existed prior to the Bible.

 

[Mickey]

Matthew 25:

I think the main issue of “differences of interpretation” here is the argument that “the church” means the Catholic Church. I don’t see this.

Church teaching is quite specific when speaking about Apostolic succession and obedience to the bishop. The earliest I recall comes from St Ignatius of Antioch. St Ignatius was a disciple of St John the Apostle:

**Epistle to the Smyraeans chapter VIII.–LET NOTHING BE DONE WITHOUT THE BISHOP. **

**See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is[administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid. **

 

[YinYangMom]

Matthew 25:

do we ty to find ground that is common for all of us - the person of Jesus Christ.

We continue to invite you to the fullness of Jesus’s Church and anxiously await your acceptance.

I appreciate the way you explained the differences and how to view our comments from your perspective, but that doesn’t change the truth of our comments.

I understand you have not been graced with the revelation of the Holy Spirit yet to be able to see the Truth but that’s ok. In God’s time it will happen. He has guided you this far, and it’s wonderful that you have followed His call. But that longing you have to participate in the Eucharist with the rest of us Catholics is still Him calling to you. He’s telling you you can grow even closer to Christ than you already are. That’s not us doing it. That’s not the Church making these things up. It is the Holy Spirit calling you closer to Christ.

Continue to listen. Continue to respond. Set aside your reservations about the details which have you doubtful and trust in the Lord completely.

 

[dulcissima]

Matthew 25,

As someone who grew up in the Baptist church, but was led, little by little, to the Catholic church, I can understand your being troubled by the idea of there being One True Church. While I do believe that the Catholic church is indeed the church given to us by Jesus Christ Himself, I tend to look at EVERYONE as being Catholic, just some people haven’t recognized it in themselves yet. Don’t you think you are clearly being called to communion in Christ’s Church? Trust in Jesus when he said “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not
overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven” (Matt. 16:17-19).

 

[scylla]

I pray that someday you can share in communion with us. As a Catholic I believe there is one truth. The new ideas that came up with the reformation and now in this century has progressed to private interpretation of the Bible has led to plenty of division.

It is never too late to come to full communion with the Catholic Church, you already know Jesus.

Now if this is a issue of faith such as baptism, symbolic or not how are we to determine the truth.

If you are sincere in saying one interpretation is true and you know it by the Holy Spirit, and I am equally sincere in saying that my interpretation is true and I know it by the Holy Spirit, then the only conclusions we can draw is
Either the Holy Spirit doesn’t do lead people to their own interpretations or it does and we are liars.

I hesistate to condemn every other denomination to being liars just because they believe the Holy Spirit is leading them to their own interpretations, so therefore I look at it from other views.

The whole idea comes from a presupposition of believing in the Bible Alone.

I really suggest you look into the history of where this idea came from, was it a return to 1st century Christianity or an idea to justify certain beliefs.

I am leading of topic and not argueing just bringing up some points for you to think about. You probably have heard some of this before and we can be a little pushy in our beliefs as Catholics.

We just want sooo much to share with you the Catholic faith.

God Bless
Scylla

I really recommend a book by Marcus Grodi called How Firm a Foundation. It is fiction and deals with struggles pastors have in search of truth, I just finished it and it is a very good read.
amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0970262116/103-9075420-6707822?v=glance
Starts very cheap!

 

[RyanL]

Matthew 25:

Maybe I am delusional, butI still believe that we have much more in common than we have differences.

My brother in Christ,

You are in good company! If you have the time, please read Ut Unum Sint. It is a letter from Pope John Paul the Great which I think will help you to see that your obstacle is much less than you would imagine. What separates us is far smaller than what unites us.

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[Matthew_25]

Dear folks,

So many of you made such wonderful comments - inviting me to join the Catholic Church in such a kind way. I hope you don’t mind that I answer all of these comments in a corporate way, saying simply: “Thank you and bless you!”

Now, my good brother Ryan L. Thank you! Thank you! The Holy Spirit used you greatly in your post!

One of the main reasons I believe that Catholics and Protestants have more in common than we have differences - and should be in unity as One Body In Christ - is the writings of the Popes beginning during the Vatican II era.

I DID look at your link, Ryan, “Ut Unum Sint” by the great Godly man, Pope John Paul…

“These brothers and sisters of ours, united in the selfless offering of their lives for the Kingdom of God, are the most powerful proof that every factor of division can be transcended and overcome in the total gift of self for the sake of the Gospel.”

Pope John Paul expressed what I have been trying to say on this forum much better than I ever could.

Good Friday to all! We are ONE in the Spirit, we are ONE in the Lord.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Matthew 25:

I think the main issue of “differences of interpretation” here is the argument that “the church” means the Catholic Church. I don’t see this. My interpretation of Scripture is that references to “the church” and the “Body of Christ” are references to people who know and love Jesus Christ - Catholic, protestant, whatever.

History will reveal much to resolve your issue with “differences of interpretation.”

DECREE OF RECEPTION OF THE SACRED BOOKS AND APOSTOLIC TRADITIONS

(210) The holy ecumenical and general Council of Trent…] has always this purpose in mind that in the Church errors be removed and the purity of the Gospel be preserved. The Gospel was promised of old through the prophets in the Sacred Scriptures; Our Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, first promulgated it from his own lips; he in turn ordered that it be preached through the apostles to all creatures as the source of all savings truth and norms of conduct. The Council clearly perceives that this truth and rule are contained in the written books and unwritten traditions which have come down to us, having been received by the apostles from the mouth of Christ himself or from the apostles by the dictation of the Holy Spirit, and have been transmitted as it were from hand to hand. Following, then, the example of the orthodox Fathers, it receives and venerates with the same sense of loyalty and reverence all the books of the Old and New Testament-for the one God is the author of both-together with all the traditions concerning faith and practice, as coming from the mouth of Christ or being inspired by the Holy Spirit and preserved in continuous succession in the Catholic Church.
Matthew 25:

Put yourselves in my shoes and see how some of this kind of dialogue “feels” to me, a person who has loved and served Jesus Christ faithfully for the past 29 years.

Many of us have been in your shoes - actually probably the majority of converts.

 

[Didi]

Matthew 25:

On this question of authority, I am disabled now and only able to minister on a fairly limited basis, but I am an ordained non-denominational evangelical minister.

I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this yet, Matthew, but there is a wonderful organization called The Coming Home Network, specifically for ministers of other denominations who are exploring the Catholic Faith. One of their founders, Marcus Grodi, also hosts a program called “The Journey Home” on EWTN TV and radio and I believe they have archived shows on the website that you can listen to.

They will match you will someone from your own faith background who understands where you are coming from and will help you through some of the obstacles you are facing, such as authority.

It sounds as though you are very serious about your walk with Jesus and that you are seeking the Truth, who is Jesus Himself! Please consider browsing this web site and/or contacting this organization:

chnetwork.org/ewtn.htm