Denied communion thought not a protestant

[Matthew_25]

Oh, I forgot!

You know, when I read Catholic doctrine or read dectrine as it is discussed in this forum, it seems like there are such major, expansive differences between me as a “protestant” and my Catholic brothers and sisters.

But when I meet with and pray with and talk with my Catholic friends IN PERSON, those differences really don’t seem so expansive at all.
In fact, barely noticeable.

We always seem to have SO MUCH in common when we meet in person. Of course, that commonality is found in the person of Jesus Christ.

Blessings to all!

 

[reggie]

Just happened to attend a lecture on the Eucharist today. I was learned some things that quite surprised me.

First the priest explained about the Jewish understanding of memorial, nearly exactly as RobNY discussed in his post. I always new that the Passover was a precurser to the Eucharist but didn’t get the full picture until today. I also thought that the consecrated hosts were the Eucharist but found that that is not so. The Eucharist is the whole celebration and if the priest does not consume the host he consecrates at mass, it is not valid.
The priest also told us that whenever possible, those present at the Eucharist should consume only those hosts consecrated at that time. The hosts in the tabernacle, while Holy Communion, are not Eucharist in the same sense. For that reason, people who are brought communion because they are homebound or imprisoned are brought Holy Communion and not Eucharist.
Interesting…

I still have some questions about this and if anyone can clarify for me please do.

The other thing discussed was whether or not Catholics can take communion in a different church or if non-Catholics can receive in a Catholic church. The priest spoke of three criteria to be in full communion with the church:

Belief in all seven sacraments.
Belief in the Apostle’s creed.
Belief in the hierarchal church.

He then went on to say that Lutherans who disagree only with the authority of the pope could receive if they truly believed the other two. Catholics however can not receive in a Lutheran church because of the illegitimacy of the priesthood in that denomination.
I am not sure how I feel about this, a part of me says that can’t be true, but this priest seemed true to the church in his other teachings.

Anyone know about this?

 

[MariaG]

posted by Matthew 25

Thank you so much for your very thoughtful and WELL-EXPRESSED feelings and beliefs about Communion. You are right. I could not worship bread and wine. Interestly, a Catholic man I know who is actually an official of the Catholic Church told me that Catholics do not actually worship the bread and wine, even though I had read previously that this was the case. I guess all Catholics do not interpret doctrine the same way.

The Catholic Official is right. We don’t worship bread and wine. We worship Our Lord and Our God.

If we worshipped bread and wine, we would be committing idolatry. We worship Jesus. Through a miracle that is hard to comprehend, through words that many of His followers turned away because it is too hard to accept, we worship Jesus, His Body and His Blood.

I understand if you say “I just don’t believe that Jesus is present the way you do.” But since we do believe He is present, Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity,** it is incorrect to say we worship bread and wine. **

And maybe it is because of this conversation with you, I was able to really worship so well at Mass last night, truly appreciate the miracle of the Eucharist. I am so deeply saddened that after some very well expressed posts, after the Christian love, It could come down to a trite “I could not worship bread and wine”. As a Catholic Christian I have come to expect that reaction, even as I pray for a much different one. I feel deceived and broken.

But the servant is never greater than the master. Many walked away from the truth Jesus spoke. I guess today He just has allowed me a glimpse of His anguish when they left.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Sherlock]

Matthew 25:

Dear friends,

Thank you so much for your very thoughtful and WELL-EXPRESSED feelings and beliefs about Communion. You are right. I could not worship bread and wine. Interestly, a Catholic man I know who is actually an official of the Catholic Church told me that Catholics do not actually worship the bread and wine, even though I had read previously that this was the case. I guess all Catholics do not interpret doctrine the same way.

  God bless each and every one, Matthew (Chapter)  25

Catholics do NOT worship bread and wine.

 

[LouisvilleCards]

reggie:

The other thing discussed was whether or not Catholics can take communion in a different church or if non-Catholics can receive in a Catholic church. The priest spoke of three criteria to be in full communion with the church:

Belief in all seven sacraments.
Belief in the Apostle’s creed.
Belief in the hierarchal church.

He then went on to say that Lutherans who disagree only with the authority of the pope could receive if they truly believed the other two. Catholics however can not receive in a Lutheran church because of the illegitimacy of the priesthood in that denomination.
I am not sure how I feel about this, a part of me says that can’t be true, but this priest seemed true to the church in his other teachings.

Anyone know about this?

Lutherans, if they are truly Lutherans, believe there are only two sacraments: Baptism and Holy Communion. Marriage, for example, is not a sacrament according to Lutheran teaching.

I think the priest is correct in the criteria for another denomination to be in full communion with the Catholic Church. Orthodox Christians recognize the seven sacraments, the Apostle’s Creed, and the hierarchical church. But you have to physically belong to that denomination to take Communion. Orthodox Christians are allowed to receive Communion at a Catholic church when they can’t attend an Orthodox church. On the other hand, I am technically Lutheran and even though I share the faith of Catholicism and I call myself a Catholic, I can’t take Communion until I finish RCIA and Confirmation in the Catholic Church.

Priests, being human, may believe and practice different things that aren’t in line with Catholic teaching. Fortunately, we have the Catechism to check what we hear against the authority of the Pope and Magesterium, who were instituted by God to guard his bride, the Church, against heresy. We can also take confidence in the very words of our Savior when he told St. Peter that the gates of Hell will never overcome the Church. These words of assurance are also a warning that the Church would be attacked by Satan, so while we know Death is defeated, it shouldn’t surprise us when even authority figures in the Church teach heresy (even if it’s a relatively minor heresy, when you sacrifice a small piece of the Truth, you invite greater heresies).

 

[RobNY]

reggie:

First the priest explained about the Jewish understanding of memorial, nearly exactly as RobNY discussed in his post. I always new that the Passover was a precurser to the Eucharist but didn’t get the full picture until today.

I seriously think this whole line of thought is so cool. Haha.

I still have some questions about this and if anyone can clarify for me please do.

Reggie, I’d love too. If I can.

Belief in all seven sacraments.
Belief in the Apostle’s creed.
Belief in the hierarchal church.

He then went on to say that Lutherans who disagree only with the authority of the pope could receive if they truly believed the other two.

Lutherans could only receive in this case of they were in mortal danger and they requested it from a Catholic while professing the Catholic belief. Lutherans cannot normally receive in a Catholic Church under normal circumstances. If a Lutheran believed in all of those things, we’d ask him to convert to Catholicism and then he could receive all he wants.

Catholics however can not receive in a Lutheran church because of the illegitimacy of the priesthood in that denomination.
I am not sure how I feel about this, a part of me says that can’t be true, but this priest seemed true to the church in his other teachings.

Anyone know about this?

This is correct. I’ve been dealing with something intimately related to this issue on the boards lately.

Holy Orders transmits the authority to consecrate the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus. Without Holy Orders this can’t be done. Lutherans, for instance, do not have Holy Orders. They don’t recognize it as a sacrament, and even if they did, they would have to receive it from a bishop with valid orders, and Lutherans aren’t likely to get Catholic bishops to administer the sacrament to them.

That’s why Lutherans, and most Protestants, I would guess, believe in a certain variation of the priesthood of all believers from which they conclude that anyone can be a priest. I’ve dealt with that issue three times lately, but see my posts in this thread. Those should answer your question of why Lutherans cannot confect the sacrament.

 

[reggie]

Thanks RobNY for your help. I linked to your other comments regarding this and other related topics. This is one of the things I love most about these forums. The chance to connect to Catholics more knowledgeable than myself.

I have studied apologetics for a couple of years now and the more I read, the more I realize how little I know. It’s become of extreme importance to me lately as I have recently become a CCD teacher to 9th grade pre-confirmation kids.

I am sure I will be looking for lots of help from all the great Catholics here.

 

[bekalc]

Hey, Matthew! I was thinking about your post today, and wanted to respond a bit too it. I wanted to make sure that your in some kind of church. I think some kind of church being a part of it is important. I’d also argue for denominations in the sense that the pastor in a denomination is submitting to an authority too, just like members of their Church, should submit to a pastor. It’s important I think to have a church home where you are involved. We aren’t called to be solo Christians you know what I mean?

I think its great that you want to know Catholicism more, and that you have this heart for unity in the Church; I do too. It was my heart for unity which eventually led me here to the Catholic Church.

For me what it comes down to is I don’t think denominations are Scriptural. I don’t find them in God’s word. Yes your right there is a mystical body of Christ, but I’d submit to you that in Scripture there is also a visible Church. A visible Church in the New Testament with leadership.

I’ve decided to become Catholic, partially because I want a church that is commited to not splitting over non essentials, and well I’m sure you know that there’s diversity here. But is committed and sound on the essentials. I also want a Church that can claim existence over time, what I mean that its been around from the beginning. I want my beliefs to match up with the beliefs of the early church. I want a church that is committed to Truth, and isn’t changing its doctrines every now and then. We in the Catholic Church we believe that Christ delivered the message and gave us the revelation. While we grow in our understanding, truth doesn’t change.

At times this means people have left our Church. But in my mind, its partly because these people the Lutherans and the Calvins, decided that they somehow knew better than not only the Church leadership of their day, but Church leadership since the apostles. I’d submit to you that in every area of disagreement between us and the Protestants (except for papal authority) all of the other ancient Churches (E.Orthdox, Copts, etc) agree with us.

If you can’t be Catholic, and your not part of a Church, than I suggest at least find a church you can get really plugged into. Because right now, I Think your kind of in “half communion with us.” Trust me half communion is better than no communion. But I’d suggest to you that real unity, Biblical unity involves agreement with on essentials. Jesus wants Christians to be of one message.

The point I’m making is the Catholic church well we are church that wasn’t founded by some kind of schism/ or division. (Although the EAstern Orthodox might say we broke from them, and they say they broke from us) but our leadership organization was started from Pentecost, that’s the difference between us and Protestantism.

I

 

[Matthew_25]

Hi folks,

I had taken a bit of sabbatical from these forums, but I asked the Lord if it would be okay to answer the kind friend’s message about my church involvement and He gave me permission.

Dear friend. At present, I am not involved with one particular church. A big reason for this is my health problems; much of the time I am not well enough for “church attendance.”

But on occasions when I have been well enough to physically attend a church, I like to go to various places to get to see the wide strata of folks in the Body of Christ and to try to make new friends.

Among those groups is a Catholic charismatic group whose meetings I attend upon occasion. They are wonderful folks.

I also like to go to inner city churches to make friends with my African/American brothers and sisters in Christ.

And, there are many others.

Your points about stability are well-taken. Of course, since I am still technically a “protestant” I believe that this stability comes from the Word of God. I understand that Catholics believe stability comes through both the Word and Church tradition.

Now, to all the folks who have read this thread let me say something. Initially, I didn’t really understand the mission of this forum. I didn’t understand that it was kind of an evangelism tool to try to bring folks into the Catholic fold.

I am not now and I do not anticipate will I ever be interested in joining the Catholic Church. But I AM interested in building bridges of understanding and unity among all believers in Christ.

I guess I should have made this clear when I started this thread. My intent here was never to “convert” anyone to protestant-ism and I hope that Catholic folks on this forum will graciously refrain from trying to “convert” me to Catholicism (smile).

However - I am very interested in learning why you believe what you believe. Especially when Catholics themselves tell me in their own words and I am not directed to websites that contain lengthy Catholic doctrine (smile).

Have any of you ever heard the album by John Michael Talbot (Catholic music’s No.1 artist) made 20 years ago called “The Regathering.” Well, basically what that album prophetically describes is an “ecumenical” re-gathering of all believers in Christ prior to His Second Coming. Now, his is not a message that there won’t be differences between Catholics, protestants, charismatics, non-charismatics, Methodists, Lutherans, etc.
It is simply a thought that since we all carry the Light of Christ within us, we should be in unity to bring that light to those who are in darkness.

I believe in that re-gathering and want to be a part of it. Simple as that. I hope you do, too.
Bless you all!

 

[AquinasXVI]

Matthew:

Thanks for coming back…in case you return I hope you find time to read GK Chesterton’s Everlasting Man. I think you’ll enjoy it.

God bless your journey, even though you are closed to the idea now, the Catholic Church is lying in wait for you, actually Christ in the Most Holy Eucharist is awaiting you.

Dominum ut videam!!!

in XT.

 

[Mickey]

Matthew 25:

I hope that Catholic folks on this forum will graciously refrain from trying to “convert” me to Catholicism (smile).

No one here will be able to bring you to the Catholic Church. Only the Holy Spirit can do that.

 

[puzzleannie]

Matthew 25:

Hi folks,

I would like to toss out a question for anyone to answer.

I am not Catholic. I am also not “protestant” because I don’t protest my brothers and sisters in Christ.

I am essentially a non-denominational Christian. I have been attending a few meetings of the charismatic Catholic group in my area and they have been very kind to me. They have even let me play my musical instruments a couple of times during worship.

But I don’t quite understand why the priests won’t let me and my wife and son participate in communion with them during Mass.
QUOTE]
one is not denied participation in the Holy Eucharist through reception of communion because one is Protestant, but only if one is not Catholic, or not fully in communion with the Church established by Jesus Christ, present here on earth through the Eucharist. This communion sadly may be broken by personal grave sin or persistent in gravely sinful habits, or by formal dissent with the teaching and sacramental authority of the Catholic Church, with the denial of those sacraments that occurred during and following the Protestant Reformation among many dissenting sects, or by more recent apostasy from the Church by baptized Catholics, or any of a number of other reasons by which an individual chooses to separate themselves from unity with the Church, for which Christ pleaded on the night before He died.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

I was denied communion too. Who do they think they are to deny people the body and blood of Christ? Who are they to decide who is worthy to receive the Lord, and who isn’t? This makes me so MAD!

 

[Mickey]

Chris LaRock:

I was denied communion too. Who do they think they are to deny people the body and blood of Christ? Who are they to decide who is worthy to receive the Lord, and who isn’t? This makes me so MAD!

Are you Catholic? If so why were you denied communion? If not, then see puzzleannie’s post # 71.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

I was baptised Lutheran, but I wouldn’t say that I’m protestant now. That would imply that my whole theology is based on complaining about the Catholic Church, which it isn’t.

The Church that denied me communion was that very church I was baptised in. I was expecting a similar response when I attended the Catholic Parish down the street from me. They didn’t deny me communion! I was shocked.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Chris LaRock:

I was baptised Lutheran, but I wouldn’t say that I’m protestant now. That would imply that my whole theology is based on complaining about the Catholic Church, which it isn’t.

The Church that denied me communion was that very church I was baptised in. I was expecting a similar response when I attended the Catholic Parish down the street from me. They didn’t deny me communion! I was shocked.

Why did the Lutheran church deny you communion?

I am shocked that the Catholic Church allowed you to receive…did you make it known that you are not Catholic?

 

[Chris_LaRock]

I’m not sure, but I had a word with the Pastor afterwards.

I just assumed that the Catholic Parish I went to that sunday allowed me to take communion because they’re not mean spirited people. Nobody should deny anyone who wants to receive communion. The Lord’s body and blood belong to no man.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Chris LaRock:

I just assumed that the Catholic Parish I went to that sunday allowed me to take communion because they’re not mean spirited people. Nobody should deny anyone who wants to receive communion. The Lord’s body and blood belong to no man.

You misunderstand the gravity of the situation…it is done for your sake and for respect for Our Lord. Read this entire thread for more imput, if you still have questions, the please feel free to ask.

Please do not receive until you have made it clear to the priest that you are not Catholic. He will most likely not allow you to receive at that point, unless you choose to accept ALL of Christ’s teachings and come into full communion with His Church.

Don’t get me wrong, I am a convert, so I know what it is like to not be able to receive…in fact I went 2 years with the desire to receive, but the inability to do so (until I came into Holy Mother Church.)

 

[Chris_LaRock]

You don’t think non-Catholics agree with ALL of Christ’s teachings, in other words?

 

[Mijoy2]

Chris LaRock:

I was baptised Lutheran, but I wouldn’t say that I’m protestant now. That would imply that my whole theology is based on complaining about the Catholic Church, which it isn’t.

The Church that denied me communion was that very church I was baptised in. I was expecting a similar response when I attended the Catholic Parish down the street from me. They didn’t deny me communion! I was shocked.

How would they have known?