Denied communion thought not a protestant

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The Catholic Church does not use “Christ Has No Body Now But Yours” to define the doctrine of the Church. And just because Catholics can appreciate that song, ie we are Christ’s hands and feet on earth, it does not necessarily mean our view matches your view of Christ’s body on a doctinal level.

God Bless,
Maria
 
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MariaG:
The Catholic Church does not use “Christ Has No Body Now But Yours” to define the doctrine of the Church. And just because Catholics can appreciate that song, ie we are Christ’s hands and feet on earth, it does not necessarily mean our view matches your view of Christ’s body on a doctinal level.

God Bless,
Maria
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Yeah, artistic expression shouldn’t be taken as doctrinal definition.
 
Matthew 25:
The name of the song is “Christ Has No Body Now But Yours.”

So, I guess if you worry about that concept of “the Body of Christ” then you need to worry about an awfully lot of Catholics. Because when I have been to John Michael Talbot concerts over the years in Catholic churches, the folks seem to really connect with the message of that song.

Good evening.
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Ha! Matt! :rotfl: Do you know the old saying: Lex orandi, lex credendi? It means, the way we pray is the way we believe. That is why songs like this need to be tossed out the liturgical door; it expresses a limited truth that ignores the greater and fuller truth that is even more important.

It’s one thing to sing that at home as a sentimental devotion, to help one recognize one’s apostolate based on the devotional truth of those words, but quite another to accept such a thing a definitive doctrine. Everything we do in our liturgical prayer in Church should conduce to the fullest understanding of the whole truth.
 
Matthew 25:
The name of the song is “Christ Has No Body Now But Yours.”

So, I guess if you worry about that concept of “the Body of Christ” then you need to worry about an awfully lot of Catholics. Because when I have been to John Michael Talbot concerts over the years in Catholic churches, the folks seem to really connect with the message of that song.

Good evening.
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Actually I believe this is from a St. Theresa of Avila prayer which emphasizes the Church (the members) being the eyes and hands of Christ’s body, sort of… extending the metaphor of the Church as Christ’s body.
Christ has no body now but yours
No hands, no feet on earth but yours
Yours are the eyes through which He looks
compassion on this world
Christ has no body now on earth but yours
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This “Body of Christ” that we are talking about is the Church. When we’re talking literally about Christ’s body, however… 😃
 
Matthew25,

I spoke with our two priests about your question about receiving the Eucharist as a non-Catholic who truly believes in the Real Presence (that was my understanding of your question and how I presented the question to them).

This was their response:

When a non-Catholic receives Communion in a Catholic Church **without knowing the Truth about the Sacrament **they are still receiving the Body, Blood, Soul & Divinity of Jesus Himself sacramentally present in the Eucharist.

He/she does not receive the grace/benefits conferred through the Sacrament as the person is not a member of the Catholic Church even though they believe in their heart in the Real Presence.

The crucial point for you, personally, comes with knowledge of the Truth.

Had you not posed your question on this board or to a priest about whether or not you may participate in the Eucharist and presented yourself to receive communion it would have just been a matter of your ignorance of the Truth. You would have received Christ but not the graces.

But because you know you are not supposed to present yourself for communion in a Catholic Mass you now are in jeopardy of committing a mortal sin should you insist on doing so. Knowing and willingly disobeying is mortal sin. That puts your soul at grave risk per 1 Corinthians 11:27-29

27Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.

28But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

29For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.

So all I can say to you now, is that we have properly instructed you on the source, purpose and Truth of the Sacrament of the Eucharist. With that knowledge, partake at your own risk.

Keep in mind also that only the Catholic Church has the authority to absolve you of any mortal sins on your soul through the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Since you do not have access to that absolution, I particularly worry about your adding mortal sin to your soul with no way to cleanse yourself of that before your death, and appeal to you further to full conversion so that you may truly benefit from all the gifts Jesus has available to you through His Church.

If you truly believe in the Real Presence, I pray you will not disrespect that Truth and thereby condemn yourself in the process. Remember these guidelines are from the Apostle Paul himself based on his understanding of Christ’s teachings. The Catholic Church is preserving and protecting them not making them up.

Peace be with you, Matthew 25. You will be in my prayers.

YYM
 
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YinYangMom:
Matthew25,

I spoke with our two priests about your question about receiving the Eucharist as a non-Catholic who truly believes in the Real Presence (that was my understanding of your question and how I presented the question to them).
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To be honest with you, YinYang, I don’t think that Matthew25 has demonstrated a belief in the Real Presence. It seems as though he believes more in Luther’s consubstantiation than in transubstantiation. Matthew 25, just think about the very word Communion. You’re not in communion with us unless you are a member of the Catholic Church. Until you are, you shouldn’t be receiving Communion, sorry.
 
Matthew 25:
Your points about stability are well-taken. Of course, since I am still technically a “protestant” I believe that this stability comes from the Word of God. I understand that Catholics believe stability comes through both the Word and Church tradition.

Now, to all the folks who have read this thread let me say something. Initially, I didn’t really understand the mission of this forum. I didn’t understand that it was kind of an evangelism tool to try to bring folks into the Catholic fold.

I am not now and I do not anticipate will I ever be interested in joining the Catholic Church. But I AM interested in building bridges of understanding and unity among all believers in Christ.

I guess I should have made this clear when I started this thread. My intent here was never to “convert” anyone to protestant-ism and I hope that Catholic folks on this forum will graciously refrain from trying to “convert” me to Catholicism (smile).
Code: 
             Bless you all!
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If, when you say that stability comes from the “Word of God” you mean the Scriptures alone, there is no stability there. The proof of this instability is all around you: 30,000+ Protestant denominations, often with contradicting doctrines on essential matters such as salvation, baptism, etc. Catholicism’s stability comes from resting on 3 legs, so to speak: Sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture, and the Magisterium. There’s no stability when you knock one or more legs out from underneath.

As for the “mission” of this forum: it’s a number of things. It’s a place for Catholics to get together and discuss things among themselves; to share experiences, to learn, to be inspired, etc. That it might also serve to evangelize is a nice possibility and side benefit, but it’s not the forum’s sole “mission”.

If you truly love someone, you will wish the best for them. Of course we want others to come to the fullness of truth that is Catholicism, for precisely that reason. So, I’m not sure why it would be “gracious” to try and keep that from you—and, as someone else has already mentioned, the Holy Spirit actually does the converting.
 
Matthew 25:
Brother Chris LaRock, et al

We identify!

Until I had become a part of this forum, I had never really run into what could be described as an “elite-tist” philosophy that Catholicism is elevated over other Christian groups and that the Catholic Church is the “real church” and that other groups and denominations are Christians who are in grave error.

What is unsual to me is that the Catholics I have known personally have never said any of these types of things to me. And I include among them priests, nuns, etc. Their attitude towards me as a “protestant” is: “Well, brother, we are both part of the Body of Christ and you just be the best protestant Christian you can be while I will be the best Catholic Christian I can be.”

I really don’t understand this kind of militant brand of Catholicism; I have never run into it previously.
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The Catholic Church claims to possess the fullness of truth. This is not to say that other Christian groups (and non-Christians, for that matter) do not possess ANY truth: they do, to varying degrees. I know that such claims make people uncomfortable, but there it is. Jesus’ claims to divinity did (and do) make people uncomfortable, so it’s hardly surprising that the claims of His Church do as well. The Church’s authority comes from Jesus: “he who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me”.

I’m all for ecumenism, but that doesn’t mean that I will degrade the claims of Christ’s Church so that others may feel better. For inspiration, look at the work of Fr. Richard John Neuhaus and Evangelicals in “Catholics and Evangelicals Together” (I think that’s the name of the group…) Look at “First Things” magazine, which has a number of faith traditions represented. Perhaps that will give you a good example of ecumenism that does not feel the need to water down the Church’s claims, yet is not “elitist”.
 
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Sherlock:
I know that such claims make people uncomfortable, but there it is. Jesus’ claims to divinity did (and do) make people uncomfortable, so it’s hardly surprising that the claims of His Church do as well.
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“Truth has always bothered people and is never comfortable.” -Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

“Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it.” -Pope St. Felix III
 
This is a good thread. The Catholics have done a very good job in trying to explain to Mathew, Chris and others why the Catholic Church denies Communion to non-Catholics and Catholics not in full communion based on their state in life (living in an invalid marriage or mortal sin et. al.)

Mathew and Chris et. al. did a good job articulating that they want to express unity among Christians focusing on what we have in common (a submission to Christ as our Lord and Savior). It is a good thing that Christians of all denominations should celebrate those things in common that which we all hold. However, partaking in Eucharist given at a Catholic Mass does not celebrate that what unites us but actually is an act of denigration and insult to all Catholics, their beliefs, and to the mystical Body of Christ. I think that YingYang should repost her post everytime this discussion comes up because it is a good summary of why this is improper.
Originally posted by Mathew: "So, it would seem to me logical that when Catholics partake in Communion they are eating of the spiritual Presence of Christ. I completely believe that a Christian who views communion as an act of worship is literally feeding on the spiritual Presence of Christ.
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So, aren’t our differences in perspective really not differences but simply terminology?
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Mathew, with all due respect, this is more than semantics. Catholics believe unequivocally that at consecration the bread and wine physically ceases to be of wheat and grape and actually becomes Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. I refer you again to YingYang’s post.

Mathew, Chris et. al., when you are at a Catholic Mass and want to celebrate that which unites all Christians, I urge you to go up for a Blessing and not recieve the Eucharist. Your participation in this forum no longer gives you the “excuse” of invincible ignorance. You now have sufficient knowledge to understand that to do so has severe consequences for your soul. We want you to continue to come to Mass and participate with us as such participation will gain for you many of the Graces and the benefits from the prayers of the faithful said during the Mass by all Catholics throughout the world. Your baptism made you Catholic but your other choices unfortunately separate us from being in full communion. I am one who was once in your position as my choice to marry my wife prior to her recieving an annulment resulted in my fasting from the Eucharist for five years. And during this time, I acknowledged the consequences of my choice by only recieving a Blessing from the Priest.
 
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JSmitty2005:
To be honest with you, YinYang, I don’t think that Matthew25 has demonstrated a belief in the Real Presence. It seems as though he believes more in Luther’s consubstantiation than in transubstantiation. Matthew 25, just think about the very word Communion. You’re not in communion with us unless you are a member of the Catholic Church. Until you are, you shouldn’t be receiving Communion, sorry.
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I think there’s a distinction between believing and comprehending…I think he comprehends our teaching about the Real Presence but I agree, he doesn’t really believe quite yet.

That’s ok, though, because there are a slew of cradle Catholics who haven’t made that leap yet either. I give him credit for coming this far and pray he completes the journey home soon.

My point earlier was that whether or not he believes our teachings, they are Truth, so his participating in the Eucharist with full knowledge of our teachings will indeed damage his soul considerably should he insist upon it. I hope he understands he doesn’t have to believe in the consequences in order for them to take effect.
 
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YinYangMom:
I think there’s a distinction between believing and comprehending…I think he comprehends our teaching about the Real Presence but I agree, he doesn’t really believe quite yet.

That’s ok, though, because there are a slew of cradle Catholics who haven’t made that leap yet either. I give him credit for coming this far and pray he completes the journey home soon.

My point earlier was that whether or not he believes our teachings, they are Truth, so his participating in the Eucharist with full knowledge of our teachings will indeed damage his soul considerably should he insist upon it. I hope he understands he doesn’t have to believe in the consequences in order for them to take effect.
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You hit the nail on the head. 👍
 
Matthew 25:
Brother Chris LaRock, et al

We identify!

Until I had become a part of this forum, I had never really run into what could be described as an “elite-tist” philosophy that Catholicism is elevated over other Christian groups and that the Catholic Church is the “real church” and that other groups and denominations are Christians who are in grave error.

What is unsual to me is that the Catholics I have known personally have never said any of these types of things to me. And I include among them priests, nuns, etc. Their attitude towards me as a “protestant” is: “Well, brother, we are both part of the Body of Christ and you just be the best protestant Christian you can be while I will be the best Catholic Christian I can be.”

I really don’t understand this kind of militant brand of Catholicism; I have never run into it previously.
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In all fairness to our Catholic brothers and sisters - they don’t have that kind of attitude. I’ve been here almost a year and a half and have had great dialogue with them. Now, isn’t it fair to say that most Christian groups believe they are the ones who are right?

Look at Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, etc. They all believe they are right. If they didn’t believe they were right they would be something else :whacky: And, it’s not a really fair assessment to call them “militant”. If you seek meaningful dialogue you have to refrain from this kind of slander.

They truly are trying to help you - not push you away.

Peace…
 
I didn’t think about this till I read through this thread, but here goes: If I would have just walked into the Catholic Church and sat down and the time came to receive the Eucharist - I would have taken it had I not known beforehand it was wrong to do so. I researched a bit first before ever going to mass and knew not to take it.

I would have just figured it was the same as in my Baptist church . Obviously, I would have been wrong because they are not the same. We only have grape juice and oyster crackers every 3 months! 😃 Anyway, I’m glad I learned before hand not to partake of the eucharist.

If I had not known about the Catholic teaching and received the eucharist, that wouldn’t have been a sin, would it? By the way, the times I went to mass I was heartbroken when the time came to receive communion. But, I knew it had to be that way.

Peace…
 
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ahimsaman72:
If I had not known about the Catholic teaching and received the eucharist, that wouldn’t have been a sin, would it?
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Absolutely not.
 
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ahimsaman72:
I didn’t think about this till I read through this thread, but here goes: If I would have just walked into the Catholic Church and sat down and the time came to receive the Eucharist - I would have taken it had I not known beforehand it was wrong to do so.** I researched a bit first before ever going to mass and knew not to take it.**

I would have just figured it was the same as in my Baptist church . Obviously, I would have been wrong because they are not the same. We only have grape juice and oyster crackers every 3 months! 😃 Anyway, I’m glad I learned before hand not to partake of the eucharist.

If I had not known about the Catholic teaching and received the eucharist, that wouldn’t have been a sin, would it? By the way, the times I went to mass I was heartbroken when the time came to receive communion. But, I knew it had to be that way.

Peace…
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No you would not have been in sin at that point in time.

You would have received the Body, Blood, Soul & Divinity of Jesus but would not have received any graces through doing so.

While you say you would have ‘researched it a little and knew not to take it’ that ‘little’ bit of research was not enough for you to truly understand and appreciate what transpires through this sacrament so you didn’t have full knowledge of what you were about to do.

This thread, however, if you’ve read through it all, provides rather sufficient understanding of why you should not present yourself for the Eucharist in a Catholic mass, and what the consequences to your soul would be if you decided to ignore our advice.

Please do present yourself to the priest at communion to receive the blessing of the Church, however. The way you do this is to get in line with the rest of the people in your pew, as you get closer to the priest, cross your arms across your chest (the way we tend to think of people in a casket). That signals to him that you have not yet received the Sacrament of the Eucharist but seek Christ’s blessing since your prayers and petitions are part of the sacrifice of the mass being offered. He will then bless you and you can return to your pew, kneel down for a bit while you spend some time speaking to Christ in your heart.
 
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YinYangMom:
Please do present yourself to the priest at communion to receive the blessing of the Church, however. The way you do this is to get in line with the rest of the people in your pew, as you get closer to the priest, cross your arms across your chest (the way we tend to think of people in a casket). That signals to him that you have not yet received the Sacrament of the Eucharist but seek Christ’s blessing since your prayers and petitions are part of the sacrifice of the mass being offered. He will then bless you and you can return to your pew, kneel down for a bit while you spend some time speaking to Christ in your heart.
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👍
 
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