Denied communion thought not a protestant

[Matthew_25]

Hello,

Just a quick follow-up to my mention of theology, doctrine and dogma and the like…

I have a seminary degree, a degree in journalism and a Ph.D. in another field.

In my opinion, here is the most profound piece of Christian theology ever written or articulated:

"Jesus loves me, this I know.
For the Bible tells me so.
Little ones to Him belong,
They are weak, but He is strong.

Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
The Bible tells me so."

 

[InnocentIII]

Matthew 25:

Now, do I believe that this is literally Christ’s flesh I am eating and literally Christ’s blood? No, it tastes like unleavened bread and wine to me. I believe that He is present in a very profound way spiritually. This puts me probably at odds with many Protestants who believe that taking Communion is basically something done “in remembrance” of Christ’s Sacrifice or to help them reflect and meditate on Christ’s Sacrifice. I DO believe He really literally shows up - spiritually.

One priest and other Catholics have told me that they feel my belief about Communion should be sufficient to quality me to participate. Others, (including most here), say “no.”

And here is precisely why the Church insists and is right to insist that communion be restricted to the members of the catholic faith. Because it is not a spritual Real Presence that the Church teaches but the actual bodily Real Presence of Christ. Those Catholics who have told you that your belief should be sufficient are absolutely wrong (and that most specifically includes the priest). It is easy to mistake a belief in a spiritual presence with the Real Presence if one is not properly catechised. So had you received communion you would have been doing so without discerning the Flesh and Bolood of Our Lord. The Church guards the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ most closely for just this reason.

 

[InnocentIII]

Matthew 25:

Brother Chris LaRock, et al

We identify!

Until I had become a part of this forum, I had never really run into what could be described as an “elite-tist” philosophy that Catholicism is elevated over other Christian groups and that the Catholic Church is the “real church” and that other groups and denominations are Christians who are in grave error.

What is unsual to me is that the Catholics I have known personally have never said any of these types of things to me. And I include among them priests, nuns, etc. Their attitude towards me as a “protestant” is: “Well, brother, we are both part of the Body of Christ and you just be the best protestant Christian you can be while I will be the best Catholic Christian I can be.”

I really don’t understand this kind of militant brand of Catholicism; I have never run into it previously.

Dear Matthew

I fear you have been too much involved with a certain brand of charismatic Catholicism. Now I do not want to deny that that Catholics can be charismatic but I have had close contacts with a number of these groups and because they tend to link with other charismatic groups they see themselves as charismatics who are Catholic rather than Catholics who are charismatics. This leads to a belief in a charismatic christian unity that supercedes the individual denominations which are merely an expression of each charismatics individuality. The truth is you have been misled by these friends of yours. While the Church is willing to embrace our non-catholic brothers and sisters as fellow believers in Christ She does make clear that their communion is imperfect for they have rent the seamless robe. This is not exclusion or elitism because the Church welcomes all who come to Her and embrace the faith but those who do not embrace the faith of the Church through acceptance of Her teachings exclude themselves.

I am sorry if the following sounds harsh but I question your motives on this thread. You have said several times that you respect our faith and that you do not intend to convert us (and therefore we should not convert you) yet you are constantly referring to these Catholic friends who validate your viewpoint as opposed to what you have been told her as if to imply that posters here are just expressing one of many opinions on the teaching of the Church. I also note that you ask people to express their personal opinions about Church matters not official Church teaching as though the two are disconnected. This strikes me as an underhanded way of trying to insinuate a non-catholic personal interpretation that would eiher justify you or lead Catholics to question the Church.

Therefore I say “Get thee behind me Satan”. There is no disconnection between my beliefs and the teachings of the Church. If you truly want to know then read the documents of the Church.

 

[mercygate]

Matthew 25:

Hello,

Just a quick follow-up to my mention of theology, doctrine and dogma and the like…

I have a seminary degree, a degree in journalism and a Ph.D. in another field.

In my opinion, here is the most profound piece of Christian theology ever written or articulated:

"Jesus loves me, this I know.
For the Bible tells me so.
Little ones to Him belong,
They are weak, but He is strong.

Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
The Bible tells me so."

Yay, Matt! I, too (convert to the Catholic faith) have a seminary degree – trained as an Episcopal priest and PhD level graduate work in psychology . . . My “ultimate theological statement” is:

Now I lay me down to sleep.
I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
If I should die before I wake,
I pray the Lord my soul to take.

 

[Mickey]

“When I find myself in times of trouble,
Mother Mary comes to me,”

Paul McCartney has been quoted saying that when he wrote this song he was talking about his deceased mother - whose name was Mary - visiting him one night in a dream.

I don’t know Paul’s theology, but the lyrics of this song have apparently been misinterpreted for quite some time by both Catholics and protestants.

Yes, this is correct. But I also know that Paul was raised Catholic and I wonder if his lyrics had a dual meaning–such as his earthly mother and our heavenly mother? I would love to ask him one day.

Peace,
Mickey

 

[gardenswithkids]

Matthew 25:

As far as bridge building between Catholics and protestants, these bridges aren’t going to be based upon religious doctrine or dogma. The bridges are built on shared SPIRITUAL experience: I.E., “taste and see the goodness of the Lord.”

Yes, I too want to see bridge building between Catholics and other Christians. But in reality, we don’t just build bridges in the middle of a flat field but typically across a river or chasm or something that separates us. Non-Catholic Christian are not separated from Catholic Communion out of any “elitist” desire to exclude them. In reality there is something that separates Catholics and non-Catholics.

We don’t build bridges by pretending that nothing separates, but by acknowledging that something comes between us, and looking for areas where we can cross the divide. There are many such bridges under construction. Non-Catholics are welcome at Mass and in discussions such as this forum, and I have felt welcome at numerous Protestant services and groups. We can join our voices, singing and praying to the Lord Jesus Christ. But until we truly are one, we can not pretend that we are by uniting ourselves in Holy Communion. That would be like pretending there is a bridge where a deep divide still separates us.

I hope one day we can all “taste and see the goodness of the Lord” together. But it may not happen here on earth, (especially if the non-Catholic Christian who wants to recieve Catholic Communions does not recognize that it is truly the Lord Jesus Christ that we taste in Communion.) If you still want to build a bridge over this division, I strongly encourage you to read what the scriptures (especially John 6, and I Corinthians 11:23-34), and the early Fathers of the Church say about Mass and the Eucharist. Reflect and pray over the Catholic Church teachings on them.

Good engineers don’t just start building bridges. First they inspecting the site and survey where they wish to build. We must be sure our common ground can support such a proposed bridge. Some Catholics have told you it can be built. Please inspect the Catholic Church teachings before you begin building. If the Church teachings say this bridge can’t be built, it’s not an attempt to be elitist; it is an effort to make sure ecumenical bridges are built on solid ground.

 

[Contarini]

But does Matthew 25 deny that it he is really receiving Christ? On the contrary, he affirms this. He denies that it’s the literal Body of Christ. But depending on what he means by this, he might be agreeing or disagreeing with Catholic teaching.

From my perspective, to call the position of St. Thomas Aquinas (for instance) “literal” is truly bizarre. And one cannot question that Aquinas sees the Presence as spiritual, because he says so.

Edwin

 

[MariaG]

Contarini:

But does Matthew 25 deny that it he is really receiving Christ? On the contrary, he affirms this. He denies that it’s the literal Body of Christ. But depending on what he means by this, he might be agreeing or disagreeing with Catholic teaching.

From my perspective, to call the position of St. Thomas Aquinas (for instance) “literal” is truly bizarre. And one cannot question that Aquinas sees the Presence as spiritual, because he says so.

Edwin

He said back in posts 50 - 60 when explanation of adoration was being given he responded with this,

posted by Matthew 25 post #59
Dear friends,

Thank you so much for your very thoughtful and WELL-EXPRESSED feelings and beliefs about Communion. You are right. I could not worship bread and wine. Interestly, a Catholic man I know who is actually an official of the Catholic Church told me that Catholics do not actually worship the bread and wine, even though I had read previously that this was the case. I guess all Catholics do not interpret doctrine the same way.

The understanding kneeling before the Eucharist in adoration is clearly not there.

 

[MariaG]

Matthew 25:

Hi,

Well, I didn’t really mean to say that I understood Catholics to worship bread and wine, but the symbolism in the bread and wine. I have heard various interpretations of what is done during this particular ritual from various Catholics.

If you are worshipping Christ, then that is a good thing and I’m all for it because He alone is worthy to be worshiped and praised.

By the way, just an interesting incidental thing responding to another friend’s posted message…

“When I find myself in times of trouble,
Mother Mary comes to me,”

Paul McCartney has been quoted saying that when he wrote this song he was talking about his deceased mother - whose name was Mary - visiting him one night in a dream.

I don’t know Paul’s theology, but the lyrics of this song have apparently been misinterpreted for quite some time by both Catholics and protestants.

As far as bridge building between Catholics and protestants, these bridges aren’t going to be based upon religious doctrine or dogma. The bridges are built on shared SPIRITUAL experience: I.E., “taste and see the goodness of the Lord.”

Matthew 25,

We do not worship any kind of symbolism in the bread and wine. We worship Christ. The various interpretations have probably been various ways of trying to explain the same thing. Although it is also possible that those trying to explain have an incomplete and non-Catholic understanding of the Eucharist.

And while there can be Spiritual experiences shared, how can we
“taste and see the goodness of the Lord” together until you actually understand it is not symbolic? I do believe we can share some things but find it ironic that you would use those words “taste and see” when you still cannot see.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[HappyCatholic01]

Matthew 25:

"Jesus loves me, this I know.
For the Bible tells me so.
Little ones to Him belong,
They are weak, but He is strong.

Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
The Bible tells me so."

While true, that has not kept millions of people throughout history from ending up detached from Jesus in Hell.

There is more to it than that, and too many people rely on Jesus’s love for them rather than standing up for their love for Jesus.

 

[Matthew_25]

Dear friends,

Some fascinating things to “discuss” on my birthday. Thank you all for the many “gifts” (smile).

Friend Innocent III, your gift was like the “switches” my parents (jokingly) told me I might get for Christmas 45 years ago because I had not been a good boy that year (smile).

I can assure you, the devil is not using me. I speak with love always. God is love.

I find it very strange that protestants and Catholics spend so much time trying to evangelize one another to their particular denominations when there are so many non-Christians who need Christ.

In my own middle-class neighborhood, there has been drug abuse, divorce, alcoholism, married people beating each other to a pulp, child neglect, general hatred of Christians and/or indifference to the Gospel of Christ.

I think our efforts of evangelization would be put to better use with those who do not know that Christ loves them and has a wonderful plan for their lives.

As far as charismatic Catholics being more charismatic than Catholic, this has definately NOT been my personal experience. The meetings I have been to are strongly Catholic and, quite frankliy, not extremely “charismatic.” The meetings are focused and centered around traditional Mass with all of the “trappings” of that experience.

Contariri - good points! I know everyone will disagree, but I STILL think this all comes down to semantics. Jesus has one physical body now and that is the Body of Christ - US. He is seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven right now in his spiritual body.

So, it would seem to me logical that when Catholics partake in Communion they are eating of the spiritual Presence of Christ.
I completely believe that a Christian who views communion as an act of worship is literally feeding on the spiritual Presence of Christ.

So, aren’t our differences in perspective really not differences but simply terminology?

Benedicite - “Now I lay me down to sleep.” Another kindred spirit! Bless you.

Garden with Kids - I hope you have a very large garden with kids (smile). They are a blessing from God. Lord, take care of the little children in our evil world of 2005! The devil hates children and that is why millions of them are aborted every year. Every time I think about the fact that abortion is legal in America - a so-called Judeo-Christian nation - it literally causes me physical pain and seldom do I think of it without having tears come to my eyes.

Gardener, about the bridge building. The bridges I am interested in building are bridges from heart to heart, soul to soul, spirit to spirit. I have done a LOT of this kind of bridge building over the last few years and have made many new Christian friends - Catholic folks - who have come to the middle of the bridge to greet me and accept me as a brother in Christ.

I have not tried to “convert” them and they have not tried to convert me.

Blessings to all!

 

[MariaG]

Not much talk of Christ’s spiritual presence, but lots of talk of actual body and blood.

Ignatius of Antioch

“I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (*Letter to the Romans *7:3 [A.D. 110]).

“Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes” (*Letter to the Smyrnaeans *6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).

Clement of Alexandria

“’Eat my flesh,’ [Jesus] says, ‘and drink my blood.’ The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children” (*The Instructor of Children *1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).

Tertullian

“[T]here is not a soul that can at all procure salvation, except it believe whilst it is in the flesh, so true is it that the flesh is the very condition on which salvation hinges. And since the soul is, in consequence of its salvation, chosen to the service of God, it is the flesh which actually renders it capable of such service. The flesh, indeed, is washed [in baptism], in order that the soul may be cleansed . . . the flesh is shadowed with the imposition of hands [in confirmation], that the soul also may be illuminated by the Spirit; the flesh feeds [in the Eucharist] on the body and blood of Christ, that the soul likewise may be filled with God” (*The Resurrection of the Dead *8 [A.D. 210]).

Found here in CA Library catholic.com/library/Real_Presence.asp

You may wish to reduce this to semantics. You are quite simply wrong. Sometimes logic has less to do with something and faith has more. But clearly, early Christians did not believe it was Christ’s spiritual body but actual flesh and blood.

But Happy Birthday anyway.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

posted by Jim G on this thread post # 19 forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=81366

I think perhaps the problem is more of an overwhelming materialism which simply leaves no room for the supernatural or even the philosophical.

One might say that Christ’s physical presence in the Eucharist is merely a physical presence under the appearances of bread and wine.

Some seem to think–incorrectly–that there is simply no physical Christ present in the Eucharist at all. Others believe–also incorrectly–that what we perceive as bread and wine somehow becomes flesh and blood at the molecular level.

The ‘matter’ that we perceive in the Eucharist cannot be other than “bread and wine.” Or rather, the appearances of bread and wine, since the substance has changed. But the appearances–to use an analogy from physics-- are the “event horizon” beyond which we cannot peer, and within which Christ resides in His entirety.

Maybe this will help.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Hi Matt25,

Welcome to the forums!

I am late to this conversation, but let me assure you that I have read all the previous posts carefully so that I can get up to speed.

I’d like to comment on your most previous post, especially one specific idea:
Matthew 25:

Jesus has one physical body now and that is the Body of Christ - US. He is seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven right now in his spiritual body.

Matt **if I am understanding you rightly **this is serious deviation from Catholic and mainstream protestant theology. To posit that Jesus has no physical body but His Mystical Body (i.e. the Body of Christ, the Church) is to deny the ressurection of Christ. This is a longstanding heresy (and I do not mean this in a pejorative way and any type of insult) which misunderstands the true nature of the Ressurection. Christ bodily rose from the dead and has, even now, his physical body. Remember St. Thomas the apostle, who doubted it?

This is a very critical an important issue. If we deny the ressurection our faith is worthless, false, and meaningless.
Matthew 25:

So, it would seem to me logical that when Catholics partake in Communion they are eating of the spiritual Presence of Christ.
I completely believe that a Christian who views communion as an act of worship is literally feeding on the spiritual Presence of Christ.

Yes, that is logical, if your premise is that Christ never rose bodily, but only has a spiritual essence. But that is *not *what Catholics profess, nor most mainstream denominations.

Again, this is based on my understanding of your statement that Christ has no physical body but us, and that He is in heaven in a “spiritual body” meaning pure spirit.

I hope that by pointing this out to you it helps the dialog between all of us, and helps us understand why we each beleive what we believe.

God Bless,
VC

 

[gardenswithkids]

Matthew 25:

The bridges I am interested in building are bridges from heart to heart, soul to soul, spirit to spirit. I have done a LOT of this kind of bridge building over the last few years and have made many new Christian friends - Catholic folks - who have come to the middle of the bridge to greet me and accept me as a brother in Christ.

I have not tried to “convert” them and they have not tried to convert me.

Yes, I definately sense your good will. I (and I am certain most members of this forum) see you as a brother in Christ. Please don’t think “conversion” attempts mean we don’t recognize you as such; you expressed desire to recieve Catholic Communion, and conversion to Catholicism is the typical way to achieve that legitimately within the guidelines of our Church.

For your birthday, I’ll give you a bit of free advice about this forum: posts on the “apologetics board” typically get more lively debate than what’s found in some of the other areas. (Personally, I often avoid “apologetics” because the debates found here can take a lot out of me, and charity doesn’t always come across well in writing between strangers on the internet.) As you expressed strong pro-life views in your kind words to me, you would likely find some more kindred spirits in the “culture of death” area. You may want to build bridges with us in those discussions where pro-life views are shared.

Thank you for your kind words about my family. God bless you and Happy Birthday!

 

[JSmitty2005]

Matthew 25:

By the way, just an interesting incidental thing responding to another friend’s posted message…

“When I find myself in times of trouble,
Mother Mary comes to me,”

Paul McCartney has been quoted saying that when he wrote this song he was talking about his deceased mother - whose name was Mary - visiting him one night in a dream.

I don’t know Paul’s theology, but the lyrics of this song have apparently been misinterpreted for quite some time by both Catholics and protestants.

I hope no one has misinterpreted my signature. I don’t mean to promote the Beatles. I personally think they’re a bunch of liberal hippie druggies, but I do like these lyrics. I’ve also heard that this could be his earthly mother Mary, but I don’t think that you can deny the connection to the Blessed Virgin. The title of the song is “Let it Be” - Mary’s fiat to the angel Gabriel in Luke’s gospel. If you’d like more information on this subject, go to:
beliefnet.com/story/78/story_7809_1.html
Matthew 25:

As far as bridge building between Catholics and protestants, these bridges aren’t going to be based upon religious doctrine or dogma. The bridges are built on shared SPIRITUAL experience: I.E., “taste and see the goodness of the Lord.”

I disagree with you on this one. Christ’s last prayer to the Father before his Passion was that his followers “may be one.” This was his dying wish! It is also quite clear throughout the New Testament that doctrine is very important. He warned us that, “a house divided against itself will not stand.” Without correct beliefs uniting us, then how can we be spiritually united? Read this website for more on the importance of doctrine and also refer to my next post:

columbia.edu/cu/augustine/a/doctrine.html

Also, visit my Facebook profile (you will have to scroll down a little) at :

facebook.com/p.php?id=14217488&l=be568d6d90
Matthew 25:

I have a seminary degree, a degree in journalism and a Ph.D. in another field.

In my opinion, here is the most profound piece of Christian theology ever written or articulated:

"Jesus loves me, this I know.
For the Bible tells me so.
Little ones to Him belong,
They are weak, but He is strong.

Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
The Bible tells me so."

When I was younger, I went to a fundamentalist vacation Bible school almost every Summer and I heard this constantly. I am 18 years old and have a high school diploma from a public school and even I know that this statement may be true but I think it’s lacking. First of all, I would replace ‘Bible’ with ‘Church’ because the Catholic Church gave us the Bible not the other way around.

geocities.com/militantis/biblecontents.html

“No protestant should quote Scripture at all, for he has no means of knowing which books are inspired; Unless of course, he wants to accept the authority of the Catholic Church for that.”
-Fr. William Most

“We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of GOD, that we received it from them, and that without them, we should have no knowledge of it at all.”
-Martin Luther

Rather than your little poem being the most profound theological statement, I’d go with Pope John Paul II’s response when asked for the best Bible verse to give to the youth of the world:

“The truth will set you free.”

Also, here are some sites on Sola Scriptura:

geocities.com/militantis/solascriptura.html

home.inreach.com/bstanley/verse.htm

 

[JSmitty2005]

Here are some biblical verses stressing the importance of unity in belief and not merely spiritual unity:

“Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned: and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.”
Romans 16:17-18

“I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose.” 1 Cor. 1:10

“For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine but, following their own desires and insatiable curiosity, will accumulate teachers and will stop listening to the truth and will be diverted to myths.” 2 Tim. 4:3-4

“There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will introduce destructive heresies and even deny the Master who ransomed them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.” 2 Pet. 2:1

“In them (Paul’s epistles) there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures. Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability.” 2 Pet. 3:16-17

“Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain.” Psalm 127:1

“First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.”
2 Pet. 1:20-21

In Acts 8:27-40, the eunuch was trying to read Isaiah when Philip asked him, “Do you understand what you are reading?” But he said, “Why, how can I, unless someone shows me?” Since Philip had been filled by the Holy Spirit in Acts 2:4, he was able to explain the truth of Isaiah to the eunuch.

“So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.”
2 Thess. 2:15

“He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.”
Matthew 12:30, Luke 11:23

“…and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.” John 10:16

“You shall not do as we are now doing; here, everyone does what seems right to himself…”
Deuteronomy 12:8, Judges 17:6, Judges 21:25

“…Teacher, we know that you are a truthful man and that you are not concerned with anyone’s opinion. You do not regard a person’s status but teach the way of God in accordance with the truth.” Mark 12:14 also Matt. 22:16
(Sorry Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, Knox, Smyth, etc. but your opinions don’t matter to God.)

“If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.” Matt. 18:15-17 (final authority is given to the Church!)

“I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock. And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them.” Acts 20:29-30

“And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, ‘Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand.’”
Matthew 12:25

Isn’t this exactly what is happening to non-Catholic ecclesial communities? They are imploding due to these never ending splits. The splinters are getting smaller and smaller, and eventually if this keeps up, each member theoretically will be his own ecclesial community and his own pope.

“Has Christ been divided up?”
1Corinthians 1:13

 

[JSmitty2005]

After the so-called “Reformation,” Luther himself stood back and realized the atrocity he had committed in dividing the Body of Christ:

“This one will not hear of Baptism, and that one denies the sacrament, another puts a world between this and the last day: some teach that Christ is not God, some say this, some say that: there are as many sects and creeds as there are heads. No yokel is so rude but when he has dreams and fancies, he thinks himself inspired by the Holy Ghost and must be a prophet.”

“Noblemen, townsmen, peasants, all classes understand the Evangelium better than I or St. Paul; they are now wise and think themselves more learned than all the ministers.”

All I have to say about that is what’s found in the 16th verse of the 7th chapter of the Gospel according to Matthew:

“By their fruits you will know them.”

PS - I changed my signature. I like this one better anyways.

 

[JSmitty2005]

Recently, Christians have been recognizing this problem of division. There seem to be two ways of ‘solving’ this problem. IMHO, the incorrect one, which is very popular, is to take the least common denominator of all protestant denominations and you end up with a nondenominational ‘church.’ On Marcus Grodi’s EWTN program The Journey Home, he often describes the theology behind this movement as “a mile wide and an inch deep.” No one wants to get too deep for fear of stepping on someone else’s toes or offending others so the ‘tough’ issues are avoided altogether. In doing this, however, we would be disobeying Christ in Matthew 28:18-20:

“Then Jesus approached and said to them, ‘All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.’”

Likewise, we wouldn’t be holding fast to the traditions we were taught (I quoted that verse above). To suggest that all tradition is evil (which many Protestants do) because Christ reprimanded the Pharisee’s for allowing the traditions of men to nullify the word of God is simply unscriptural and silly. This is the same logic that Jehovah’s Witnesses use in condemning birthdays. Since the only birthdays being celebrated in the Bible were those of evil men, they conclude, incorrectly, that the celebration of all birthdays is evil. Some traditions of men within Christianity today are: Bible alone as sole authority; ‘accepting Jesus into our hearts as personal Lord and Savior’ to be saved; and once saved, always saved. Notice that none of these are Catholic beliefs. The second way that Christians have been trying to mend the divisions within Christianity is to return to Catholicism. More and more Protestants have been converting to Catholicism as their communities crumble (which Church was built on a rock?). Heck, the UCC recently voted on whether or not Christ was God!!! As we all know, truth isn’t determined by a majority vote. Lately, thank God, many Protestants are finding safe-haven back home in the Catholic Church.

I hope that none of this has offended anyone. I hope that all people on this forum, Catholic & non-Catholic, will come to find truth because to seek truth is to seek Christ since he is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Finally, remember that there is no such thing as ‘my truth’ or ‘his truth,’ there is only the truth. The former would be considered relativism. Check out Peter Kreeft’s lecture on Relativism here:

peterkreeft.com/audio/05_relativism.htm

Also, listen to this one (also by Peter Kreeft) on ecumenism and how Christianity can be truly re-united.

peterkreeft.com/audio/03_ecumenism.htm

I apologize for going on this rant off topic from recieving Communion. Please forgive me. Take care & God bless!

In Jesus & Mary,
Jonathan C. Smith

 

[Matthew_25]

Hi folks,

I want to clarify something. I absolutely do believe that Jesus was resurrected from the dead in bodily form.

But it is obvious something happened to Jesus’ body when He was resurrected. He walked through a wall. He disappeared and appeared “out of thin air.” And then He ascended into the clouds to return to heaven.

I don’t know anyone who has a physical body like you and me who could do any of those things.

So, I think the “body” that Jesus received after the resurrection is quite unlike my physical body or your physical body.

As for the disagreement that Christ has no physical body but ours (the body of Christ on Earth). Well, friends, that is word for word verbatim out of one of my most favorite songs by Catholic music’s No.1 musical artist, John Michael Talbot (who has performed in person for the Pope in the Vatican).

The name of the song is “Christ Has No Body Now But Yours.”

So, I guess if you worry about that concept of “the Body of Christ” then you need to worry about an awfully lot of Catholics. Because when I have been to John Michael Talbot concerts over the years in Catholic churches, the folks seem to really connect with the message of that song.

Good evening.