Denominations in Catholicism

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Much is made of the many factions within protestantism, and rightly so. But aren’t there lots of different factions within Catholicism too? I am drawn to Catholicism for lots of reasons, but this is one thing that puts me off. Any ideas?
The reporting that showed 33,000 total Christian denominations includes 242 Catholic denominations in it’s breakdown.

Independents (about 22000)
Protestants (about 9000)
"Marginals" (about 1600)
Orthodox (781)
Roman Catholics (242)
Anglicans (168)
 
No doubt - factions is probably the better term. Apologies, I’m floundering about trying to make sense of something I’ve only known through the lens of protestant apologists, so I’m aware that my perspective is coloured by that.

Thank you all for your replies. I suppose the sedevacantists are actually just another form of protestant. And yes, it does make sense that there would be differences of opinion among brethren. I shall have to get a copy of the catechism.
The full text of the Catechism is also available online:

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
 
The reporting that showed 33,000 total Christian denominations includes 242 Catholic denominations in it’s breakdown.

Independents (about 22000)
Protestants (about 9000)
"Marginals" (about 1600)
Orthodox (781)
Roman Catholics (242)
Anglicans (168)
I believe there are some threads floating around here that go into greater detail on all that. Basically, those stats consider that the same branch of Christianity in a different country counts as a separate denomination (thus we have the U.S. Catholics and the Mexican Catholics and the Italian Catholics, etc., etc.).

Of course, that’s not really the best way to look at what constitutes a separate denomination.
 
Much is made of the many factions within protestantism, and rightly so. But aren’t there lots of different factions within Catholicism too? I am drawn to Catholicism for lots of reasons, but this is one thing that puts me off. Any ideas?
Eruvande,

This is a good question, especially given the penchant many folks on these forums have for claiming that those with whom they differ “aren’t real Catholics.”

Unfortunately, liberal Catholics often speak with equal contempt of conservatives.

Consider this: in a way, Protestantism created greater internal unity within specific Christian groups–or perhaps we should call it uniformity. Indeed, the Reformation was motivated not by a desire for greater diversity but by a desire for greater uniformity. The division was a highly undesirable byproduct, although many modern Protestants have made a virtue of it.

Protestants tend to think of unity as doctrinal agreement. And of course that’s true in Catholicism up to a point: people are supposed to accept all the teachings proposed for belief by the Church. There are disagreements as to just what these teachings are, and how to apply them, and there are some Catholics who would openly dissent from what they themselves acknowledge to be teachings of the Church. But certainly there is a body of dogma that characterizes Catholicism.

However, I think it’s a mistake to see Catholic unity primarily in these terms. Catholics are united because they are in communion with each other, even when they disagree. Ultimately, the Magisterium has the ability to cut off from communion those who openly reject its teachings, but recent Popes and bishops have used this power with a good deal of restraint (liberals would disagree, but my statement is true in comparison to prior RC practices or to the practices of conservative Protestant denominations and congregations). And even in the past, Catholics managed to stay unified through disagreements that have divided Protestantism. The classic example is predestination. Dominicans and Jesuits fought each other over this, just as Calvinists and Arminians did in Protestantism (though the dividing lines are a little different), until the Pope told them to stop calling each other heretics. And they did.

If you assume that the main purpose of papal authority is to preserve doctrinal purity and uniformity, I think you’ll be very confused by what actually goes on in the Catholic Church. Certainly, as I said, that’s a legitimate function, but much of the time the papacy functions to preserve diversity and mutual tolerance. Many Catholics on these forums think that Catholic Biblical scholars like Fr. Raymond Brown are heretics for using historical criticism. But several Popes in succession honored Fr. Brown. That doesn’t make him right. It does make it clear that there’s a place for his kind of scholarship within Catholicism. Again, many liberal Catholics would like to chase the “traditionalists” out of the Church. The Pope has gone out of his way to make room for them. And so on.

If you accept that unity in diversity is the goal, then I think Catholicism’s “factions” actually make the unity of the Church more impressive!

Of course, this is easier for me to see because I have had a long “detour” (which may yet turn out to be permanent) in the Episcopal Church. . . .

Edwin
 
No doubt - factions is probably the better term. Apologies, I’m floundering about trying to make sense of something I’ve only known through the lens of protestant apologists, so I’m aware that my perspective is coloured by that.

Thank you all for your replies. I suppose the sedevacantists are actually just another form of protestant. And yes, it does make sense that there would be differences of opinion among brethren. I shall have to get a copy of the catechism.
I think you are on the right path here.

Regardless of our personal opinions and preferences, if we are faithful Catholics then we accept the Catechism without qualification.
 
Much is made of the many factions within protestantism, and rightly so. But aren’t there lots of different factions within Catholicism too? I am drawn to Catholicism for lots of reasons, but this is one thing that puts me off. Any ideas?
I once read from somebody who called himself conservative catholic he said all priest who ever had anything immoral should be dismissed from the priesthood personally i think repentant ones should be forgiven, is this the ‘fraction’ you’re talking about? I see it as different opinion in displine. Before we talk about denominations there has to be an established difference in doctrines as we see in protestant churches(communities) but no one who disagree COMPLETE-LY with infalliable catholic teaching can fully and truly call himself catholic. Such doctrines are morally binding on each believer. There certainly are ‘difficulty’ in accepting some doctrine but as it is said ‘1000 difficulty does not make a doubt’. So any body who contradict the church in one doctrine has rejected others as well. Anyone with an OBSTINATE denial or doubt about such doctrine is by definition an heretic and does not enjoy full communion. Continue in your journey, looking up to Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith.
Pax
 
Hi,

There are exceptions of course: some people who call themselves traditional Catholics believe that every single person who is not a formal member of the Catholic Church must necessarily go to Hell for that reason alone, and this is wrong; whereas some self identified liberal Catholics who believe that Hell doesn’t really exist or that it is impossible for people to go there (as distinct from hoping that no one will, which is permitted), or disagree with the Church on moral issues such as abortion and the like.

.
Good advise but i don’t think it is a permitted to believe there is no hell or to disagree in matters like abortion
or to say all non -catholic are going to hell. For example the existence of hell (de fide) is morally binding on all catholic one who obstinatly doubt such truth may incur automatic excommunication.
Pls correct me if I misinterpreted your post.
Peace
 
Much is made of the many factions within protestantism, and rightly so. But aren’t there lots of different factions within Catholicism too? I am drawn to Catholicism for lots of reasons, but this is one thing that puts me off. Any ideas?
Your speaking of controversies-and there will always be controversies within the Church. Look to the Catechism chiefly to know what the Catholic Church teaches. Her teachings present a unified whole and to the degree we are aligned/in agreement with them, we are Catholic. It’s something known as the “sensus fidelium”.
 
Good advise but i don’t think it is a permitted to believe there is no hell or to disagree in matters like abortion
or to say all non -catholic are going to hell. For example the existence of hell (de fide) is morally binding on all catholic one who obstinatly doubt such truth may incur automatic excommunication.
Pls correct me if I misinterpreted your post.
Peace
Hey, that is actually nearly exactly what I was trying to say. There are permissible views, but there are also boundaries. You can hope and pray and think it likely that there are very few people in Hell, but you cannot say that Hell does not exist or that no one has the ability to go there (an idea held by some Christians on the liberal side of things). Likewise, you can think that it is likely that lots of people are damned, but cannot say that being outside formal visible unity with the Catholic Church is enough to guarantee damnation.

Just trying to indicate that there is a broad range of permissible views on some subjects, and, since people of like minds tend to group up, you will find groups on all over the place and that there is nothing wrong with that (so long as they behave and don’t pick on each other too much). But there are also boundaries and black and white issues, and groups or individuals outside of those boundaries or wrong on the black and white are just… wrong.

Example: Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter: awesome.
Catholics for Choice: not so much.
 
Eruvande, Indeed, the Reformation was motivated not by a desire for greater diversity but by a desire for greater uniformity. The division was a highly undesirable byproduct, although many modern Protestants have made a virtue of it.

Protestants tend to think of unity as doctrinal agreement. And of course that’s true in Catholicism up to a point: people are supposed to accept all the teachings proposed for belief by the Church. There are disagreements as to just what these teachings are, and how to apply them, and there are some Catholics who would openly dissent from what they themselves acknowledge to be teachings of the Church.
However, I think it’s a mistake to see Catholic unity primarily in these terms. Catholics are united because they are in communion with each other, even when they disagree.
If you assume that the main purpose of papal authority is to preserve doctrinal purity and uniformity, I think you’ll be very confused by what actually goes on in the Catholic Church. Certainly, as I said, that’s a legitimate function, but much of the time the papacy functions to preserve diversity and mutual tolerance.
Edwin
there much truth here but I don’t agree about the reformation, when one read Luthers’ writing one may come across words like donkey and antichrist as his words discribing the CC this is not a reqest for unity. As for catholics the right interpretation of doctrines is found in the CCC, one who openly dissent cc teaching are just catholic by name 'cos doctrine are morally binding. There is preservation of the different rite e.t.c but there is nothing like preservation of different doctrine, the papal authority ensure purity and uniformity of defined doctrine and ensure tolerance in different rites and un-defined doctrines.
CC unity is also a profession of one faith CCC 815
benedicimus
 
No doubt - factions is probably the better term. Apologies, I’m floundering about trying to make sense of something I’ve only known through the lens of protestant apologists, so I’m aware that my perspective is coloured by that.
No problem! It was a valid question that we are all happy to discuss. 🙂
Thank you all for your replies. I suppose the sedevacantists are actually just another form of protestant.
I agree. They simply have a bigger “Bible” - Protestants claim to have the right to interpret Scripture even if their interpretation contradicts the Catholic Magisterium; sedevacantists claim to have the right to interpret Scripture and Tradition - even if their interpretation contradicts the Catholic Magisterium.
The reporting that showed 33,000 total Christian denominations includes 242 Catholic denominations in it’s breakdown.

Independents (about 22000)
Protestants (about 9000)
"Marginals" (about 1600)
Orthodox (781)
Roman Catholics (242)
Anglicans (168)
These statistics don’t use the word “denomination” in a univocal sense, so applying them as if they do is highly misleading.

Those 9000 or so “Protestant” denominations are organizationally distinct - offshoots of various umbrella denominations like Anabaptist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, Methodist, Pentecostal, Mennonite, etc.

When it speaks of Orthodox or Catholic “denominations” it’s most likely calculating based on factors like numbers of bishops’ conferences, dioceses, etc.

While Catholic ecclesiology speaks of each diocese as a particular church of its own, a Catholic diocese - or set of dioceses united under a country’s conference of bishops - is simply not comparable in matters of unity/disunity to a Protestant denomination.
 
Yeah you have the Episcopal church and Anglican both are the same. The Old Catholic church, The National Catholic Church of America, Lutherans.
All profess the same creed. but Lutherans do not believe in the blessed sacrament and some forms of the Anglican church as well.
 
The reporting that showed 33,000 total Christian denominations includes 242 Catholic denominations in it’s breakdown.

Independents (about 22000)
Protestants (about 9000)
"Marginals" (about 1600)
Orthodox (781)
Roman Catholics (242)
Anglicans (168)
And if you read the site linked you will find this:
However, since virtually all of these western and smaller eastern rites are in union with the Pope (I am not sure of some of them), there is actually one Catholic Church, not 242 churches or denominations. Based on the encyclopedia’s own definition of “denomination”** the editors appear to be separating and counting by country which is how you get to 242** (or 238 countries plus 4) “denominations” of Roman Catholics. The Catholic Church in Canada is not a different “denomination” from the Catholic Church in the U.S., which is not a different Catholic Church from the one in England, etc
 
Much is made of the many factions within protestantism, and rightly so. But aren’t there lots of different factions within Catholicism too? I am drawn to Catholicism for lots of reasons, but this is one thing that puts me off. Any ideas?
Unfortunately many Protestants recognize such a fact and conclude: See the CC has denominations.

Sadly nothing can be further from the truth. Either they are in communion with Rome or they are not. There are NO Catholic “denominations” in communion with Rome,but there are Eastern Rites in communion with Rome,big difference.
 
Much is made of the many factions within protestantism, and rightly so. But aren’t there lots of different factions within Catholicism too? I am drawn to Catholicism for lots of reasons, but this is one thing that puts me off. Any ideas?
The topic title mentions “Denominations” but the opening thread only mentions “factions.” The factions in the Catholic Church are not so apparent. If there is a division within Catholicism it isn’t that there are different churches with different theological doctrines (denomination), it is the members of the Catholic Church even though have the opportunity to learn and come to accept the teachings of the CC they necessarily don’t. What ever the division or factions are, don’t let those things put you off, it’s not a Catholic problem it’s a human problem, whether you are talking about religion, politics etc there will always people divided about something.
 
What always gets me when we are talking Protestants and reformation ect ect is that you have a group that call themselves Non Denominational, one of which I came from recently. When did that group that cant figure out what they believe come up? My Non Denom was a mixture of Pentecostal and Baptist and most were anti Catholic,but there were non denom. What got me was when the pastor a few months ago said he was going to Ordain a couple of Pastors from the Congregation…:eek: hmm well, thats in the past now and I am now Coming into the CC, so all is well now.
 
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