Denominations which allow Women Pastors.

[JonNC]

yay at least the fact the Virgin Mary was around was finally caught.

:tiphat:

True, though she did not teach publicly that I am aware of. The Blessed Virgin seems to epitomize the proper and wonderful role of women in the Church.

Jon

 

[TheSeeker2014]

That is *your *belief that all things we believe about God must be found in the Bible, not ours.

It would seem, then, that women ought to be ordained in your church–for that is what you are presenting with these Scriptures.

first sentence above… I understand that stance… but the assumption–correction-- is often referred to the last book.

Sure a woman could be ordained… but! they need a male ordained too.
they need to be in agreement.

Since not everything that is believed about God does not come have to be found in the Bible, then there shouldn’t be an issue connecting the dots. Unless I am just not explaining myself and views well enough. either case… i wrote.

 

[TheSeeker2014]

:tiphat:

True, though she did not teach publicly that I am aware of. The Blessed Virgin seems to epitomize the proper and wonderful role of women in the Church.

Jon

Yes and neither did the other women… but surely they had ministered to the 12 and vis versa … even if that ministering was just encouragement.

EDIT: especially how much they were in communion and followed each other around. The males needed support… the females and males were in agreement with what they had done. Maybe not the same plan as many people would take today… such as having a women speak such and such to the congregation… but! the point is there!

 

[PRmerger]

Some of the “back and forth” reminds me of when the Apostles complained to Jesus about some that were speaking in His Name but weren’t in “lock-step” with the Apostles and what did Jesus say concerning this?

Who knows, maybe God knows exactly what He is doing whether we agree with Him or not on the details.

Some that are “following” Jesus “differently” may just be following Jesus better.

Uniformity does not necessarily equate with unity, if God had wanted us to be “clones”, God could have easily made us "clones’, but God did not do this.

Could be that God sees all of the diversity as unity whereas we, at least some of us, don’t see it that way at all.

It is written, “My Ways are not your ways and My Thoughts are not your thoughts”.

God made us ALL and ALL of us are individually different, who knows, maybe God did it that way on purpose.

This would seem to be a apologia for this guy to be able to profess his beliefs, which are clearly not in “lock step” with the Apostles:

lasttrumpet.org/paul_false_apostle.htm

He believes that the writings of St. Paul are satanic.

And these folks were taught that eating grass would bring them closer to God. That’s clearly not in “lock-step” with the Apostles.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...3lEfjOC_hM-jBH-T-2RrQIHsM1rUrukgVyDD3MdfkSZcH

Would you feel comfortable worshipping with either of these denominations?

 

[PRmerger]

first sentence above… I understand that stance… but the assumption–correction-- is often referred to the last book.

We do not get our dogma on the Assumption from the last book

Rather, the last book reflects our dogma.

Sure a woman could be ordained… but! they need a male ordained too.
they need to be in agreement.

Fair enough.

Since not everything that is believed about God does not come have to be found in the Bible, then there shouldn’t be an issue connecting the dots. Unless I am just not explaining myself and views well enough. either case… i wrote.

I am simply applying your paradigm…asking that you remain consistent.

If you are going to profess a doctrine such as “males cannot preach the word without females” then it ought to be stated in the Bible.

I haven’t seen that doctrine taught in a single page of the Bible.

 

[SteveVH]

As far as “God is not a God of confusion and contradiction”, doesn’t it say something, somewhere about the “tower of babel”?

Are you trying to make the case that God is, indeed, a God of contradiction and confusion because he thwarted the plans of those people who, out of pride, believed they could build a tower that would reach heaven? Really?

By the way, what about, “Some of the “back and forth” reminds me of when the Apostles complained to Jesus about some that were speaking in His Name but weren’t in “lock-step” with the Apostles and what did Jesus say concerning this?”?

*38“Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

39“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40for whoever is not against us is for us. 41Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward."* (Mark 9:38-41)

Those of whom Jesus spoke were doing the will of God. Jesus was making the point that the kingdom of God was not limited to the Apostles but open to anyone “who gives you a cup of water in my name”.

Do you believe the Westboro Baptist Church or Jehovah’s Witnesses are doing the will of God? How about the very interesting “church” that PRmerger brought to light that includes eating grass as one of its rituals?

The point is that Christ revealed himself and founded a Church. He gave this Church unprecedented power and authority and sent it with the command to teach all nations. He even sent the Holy Spirit to lead it into all truth. If one, then, varies from this truth, once delivered to the Church, do you believe it is insignificant and just part of God’s plan?

Please keep in mind that this is not an indictment of the sincerity or degree of faith of the non-Catholic. It is an indictment of the error that creeps in when people ignore or reject the teachings of the Church which Christ founded and an indictment of moral and theological relativism.

Also, concerning, “Some follow Jesus “differently” by appearing at funerals of our fallen soldiers and telling the families that God hates their son or daughter (Westboro Baptist Church). Some follow Jesus “differently” by denying his divinity (JW’s). Some, if not many, follow Jesus “differently” by denying his true presence in the Eucharist (Take your pick).”, do you think that there might be some others on the planet that follow Jesus differently than what you approve of, other than these?

Could be a “truth” that we all have “individual differences” and these “individual differences” were and are a very integral part of the PLAN OF GOD.

In other words, it doesn’t really matter what one believes. It’s all a part of God’s plan. Is that your position?

 

[PRmerger]

As far as “God is not a God of confusion and contradiction”, doesn’t it say something, somewhere about the “tower of babel”?

Not sure what you are saying here, Tom.

Are you saying that the Tower of Babel was done at the command of God, in order to create chaos and confusion?

 

[TheSeeker2014]

We do not get our dogma on the Assumption from the last book

Rather, the last book reflects our dogma.

Fair enough.

I am simply applying your paradigm…asking that you remain consistent.

If you are going to profess a doctrine such as “males cannot preach the word without females” then it ought to be stated in the Bible.

I haven’t seen that doctrine taught in a single page of the Bible.

yeah it should… but alot of conclusions made are not stated clearly… it was a conclusion from fact in the bible about the role of women and the mentioning of women in significant events plus the fact of genesis.
Dogma The term derives from Greek δόγμα “that which seems to one, opinion or belief”[3] and that from δοκέω (dokeo), “to think, to suppose, to imagine”.[4]

you could say the scripts I wrote was a reflection of the conclusion made from them.

 

[PRmerger]

yeah it should… but alot of conclusions made are not stated clearly…

Indeed.

And I would hope that you offer Catholics the same ability to proclaim certain doctrines (such as purgatory) which are not stated clearly, but are definitely supported by Scriptures.

IOW: have you ever asked a Catholic, “Why do you Catholics believe in [fill in the blank] because it’s not found in the Bible?”

We would answer: it’s there–it’s just "not stated clearly.’

 

[Tom_Baum]

Not sure what you are saying here, Tom.

Are you saying that the Tower of Babel was done at the command of God, in order to create chaos and confusion?

I do not know if the story of the tower of babel is literal or not but according to the story, God did this to create “chaos and confusion” among those in Babel, isn’t that what the story of the tower of Babel is all about?

It is a pretty simple story and God creating confusion among the people building the tower is the whole point of the story, isn’t it?

From dictionary.com, “Ba·bel·ize verb (used with object), Ba·bel·ized, Ba·bel·iz·ing. ( sometimes lowercase )
to make a confusion of (customs, languages, usages, etc.); cause to be mixed or unintelligible; confound.”, words in the english language came about from the “confusion” generated in the story about the tower of Babel.

Seems to me that God has done and continues to do things that we say He can not or should not do.

As I have said many times, we attempt to put God in a “box” and believe it or not but God does not fit into any “box” that we make for God, no matter how “nice” we may think it to be.

 

[TheSeeker2014]

Indeed.

And I would hope that you offer Catholics the same ability to proclaim certain doctrines (such as purgatory) which are not stated clearly, but are definitely supported by Scriptures.

IOW: have you ever asked a Catholic, “Why do you Catholics believe in [fill in the blank] because it’s not found in the Bible?”

We would answer: it’s there–it’s just "not stated clearly.’

well yeah… it is how people learn.

 

[PRmerger]

well yeah… it is how people learn.

Excellent.

So we are both agreed that doctrines need not be explicitly stated in the Bible for us to believe them.

 

[TheSeeker2014]

Excellent.

So we are both agreed that doctrines need not be explicitly stated in the Bible for us to believe them.

of course. perhaps I was just not explaining myself very well
I just brought up script to support my conclusion. I believe the bible says it but not directly. Why else would the women be mention if they did not do anything-- for this example. There are direct messages… and in between the lines connecting the dots messages. That is why we “study” and not just casually read or memorize.

 

[PRmerger]

I do not know if the story of the tower of babel is literal or not but according to the story, God did this to create “chaos and confusion” among those in Babel, isn’t that what the story of the tower of Babel is all about?

It is a pretty simple story and God creating confusion among the people building the tower is the whole point of the story, isn’t it?

The story is an example of God punishing people with chaos and confusion.

Chaos and confusion is not an example of the will of God.

Thus, for you to claim that the Tower of Babel is an example of God willing us to be of different doctrines and teachings is untenable.

Unless you believe that God is okay with someone professing this:

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=20227&d=1403928673

Are you of the opinion that this is something good?

 

[Porknpie]

I just brought up script to support my conclusion. I believe …the bible says it but not directly.

TheSeeker, when “I believe” strays from the teaching of The Church, then we become the pillar and bulwark of truth.

But we know that The Church is the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth (1 Timothy 3:15) and not any one of us. And we know that The Church is Christ’s bride and that he promised to lead it to all Truth.

By the way Seeker, I take it that you believe that the bible is both inspired and inerrant. I believe that we both believe that.

My question is: how do you know that it is?

PnP

 

[Porknpie]

The apostles were not into recording their own lives… the closest thing would be:

Genesis 2:18
18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

This has nothing to do with preaching.

Genesis 2:21-24
21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh

Again, nothing to do with preaching.

1 Timothy 2:12-15
12*** I don’t allow a woman to teach a man or tell him what to do***. She must listen quietly, 13 because Adam was made first. Eve was made later. 14 Also, Adam was not the one who was tricked.[a] It was the woman who was tricked and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved in their work of having children. They will be saved if they continue to live in faith, love, and holiness with sensible behavior.

This seems if anything, to be arguing against your point. Men should not be listening to woman.

1Cor 11:9
8For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; 9for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake. 10Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.…

Nothing about preaching. But maybe in the day, a woman’s work was in the field and cooked while the man hunted.

Titus 2:3-5 The older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things— that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed.

This is a long list of what woman should do but nothing in the list says “help men preach.”

Acts 18:25-26 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord, though he knew only the baptism of John. So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.

So how do you reconcile Priscilla’s words to the man with 1 Timothy 2 above?

and of course some of these are from Paul the apostle.

TheSeeker, I don’t believe any of the verses support your point.

I do think that you are adding to scripture based on what “I believe” or “I want to believe”.

PnP

 

[TheSeeker2014]

This has nothing to do with preaching.

Again, nothing to do with preaching.

This seems if anything, to be arguing against your point. Men should not be listening to woman.

Nothing about preaching. But maybe in the day, a woman’s work was in the field and cooked while the man hunted.

This is a long list of what woman should do but nothing in the list says “help men preach.”

So how do you reconcile Priscilla’s words to the man with 1 Timothy 2 above?

TheSeeker, I don’t believe any of the verses support your point.

I do think that you are adding to scripture based on what “I believe” or “I want to believe”.

PnP

I was speaking on the rolls of women and men… I explained everything from my first post until my last… Sure a woman could in theory preach, but a male needs to be in agreement or in other words
female under male instruction
in union on topic
or
in communion.
I was showing scripture on how I drew my conclusion.
Maybe for Paul himself, would not have a woman preach that was in agreement with him or in a spiritual partnership for leading a congregation.
I believe this is what the bible communicates between the lines on various scripts… and I did not even post most of them either.
Preaching requires more than just standing in front of a crowd talking… there is a lot more to it behind the scenes. Any Christian should know that. The largest part is prayer and being in agreement with other people.

 

[TheSeeker2014]

TheSeeker, when “I believe” strays from the teaching of The Church, then we become the pillar and bulwark of truth.

But we know that The Church is the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth (1 Timothy 3:15) and not any one of us. And we know that The Church is Christ’s bride and that he promised to lead it to all Truth.

By the way Seeker, I take it that you believe that the bible is both inspired and inerrant. I believe that we both believe that.

My question is: how do you know that it is?

PnP

Prayer. Always. Always be led by the Spirit. Errors can occur in man’s hands… even the bible, sure.
Why prayer is so vital.

 

[Porknpie]

Prayer. Always. Always be led by the Spirit. Errors can occur in man’s hands… even the bible, sure.
Why prayer is so vital.

TheSeeker,

Do I understand the you know that the bible is inspired and inerrant because you prayed?

What errors can be in the bible? I don’t understand your point there…

Curious too, how many books are in your bible?

PnP

 

[PRmerger]

I don’t allow a woman to teach a man or tell him what to do. She must listen quietly–1 Timothy 2:12

This seems if anything, to be arguing against your point. Men should not be listening to woman.

Ah. Very good point.

It would seem that what TheSeeker is professing is actually CONTRARY to Scripture.

That is, if one goes by Scripture alone.