Denominations which allow Women Pastors.

[PRmerger]

I read your reply with great interest. I don’t agree with everything you espouse. I believe that organized religions serve to primarily perform the same function - maybe just slightly nuanced - but the same function and objectives.

Function–as in what they do…then, yes.

And yes, the objectives are certainly similar: priests and Protestant ministers want to bring Christ to their flock.

However, your understanding of the priesthood is quite impoverished.

In regards to your opinion that priests don’t consider it a job.

I never said they don’t consider it a job.

It’s just way more than that.

By analogy, if I said, “The Bible isn’t just a book–it’s the Word of God”, it would be wrong for you to say, “You are wrong when you say the Bible isn’t a book.”

Incidentally, have you ever read anything about the ontological nature of the priesthood?

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_cclergy_doc_18061996_intr_en.html

Read that and then we can chat!

 

[Telstar]

I read your reply with great interest. I don’t agree with everything you espouse. I believe that organized religions serve to primarily perform the same function - maybe just slightly nuanced - but the same function and objectives. In regards to your opinion that priests don’t consider it a job. That’s a bit naïve and an interesting assertion. I would say it’s a (vocation) and a job. They call it a vocation. They draw a paycheck from the dioceses just like any other important and vital craft (e.g., surgeon, soldier, police officer, firefighter, EMS). A priest and a pastor serve essentially the same mission of serving God and saving soles (whether you are Catholic or Protestant). With that said, in the end, it won’t matter if you were a Catholic or protestant, it’s how you live your life and what’s in your heart. Take care.

If you really are Catholic as your profile says you are, then you might want to do a little reading of the Catechism. (emphasis mine)
"In the person of Christ the Head . . .

1548 In the ecclesial service of the ordained minister, it is Christ himself who is present to his Church as Head of his Body, Shepherd of his flock, high priest of the redemptive sacrifice, Teacher of Truth. ***This is what the Church means by saying that the priest, by virtue of the sacrament of Holy Orders, acts in persona Christi Capitis:***23

• It is the same priest, Christ Jesus, whose sacred person his minister truly represents. Now the minister, by reason of the sacerdotal consecration which he has received, is truly made like to the high priest and possesses the authority to act in the power and place of the person of Christ himself (virtute ac persona ipsius Christi).24

Christ is the source of all priesthood: the priest of the old law was a figure of Christ, and the priest of the new law acts in the person of Christ.25

VI. WHO CAN RECEIVE THIS SACRAMENT?

1577 "Only a baptized man (vir) validly receives sacred ordination."66 The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry.67 The college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ’s return. The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible.68

1578 **No one has a right to receive the sacrament of Holy Orders. Indeed no one claims this office for himself; he is called to it by God.**69 Anyone who thinks he recognizes the signs of God’s call to the ordained ministry must humbly submit his desire to the authority of the Church, who has the responsibility and right to call someone to receive orders. Like every grace this sacrament can be received only as an unmerited gift.

1579 All the ordained ministers of the Latin Church, with the exception of permanent deacons, are normally chosen from among men of faith who live a celibate life and who intend to remain celibate "for the sake of the kingdom of heaven."70 Called to consecrate themselves with undivided heart to the Lord and to "the affairs of the Lord,“71 they give themselves entirely to God and to men. Celibacy is a sign of this new life to the service of which the Church’s minister is consecrated; accepted with a joyous heart celibacy radiantly proclaims the Reign of God.72”
The Priest personifies Jesus to His people, and to His Church. Jesus is the Bridegroom and His Church is His Bride. A woman can never be seen as a personification of Jesus, or as a “Bridegroom”. That’s why a woman can never be a Priest in the Catholic Church.

 

[benjohnson]

I do hope the Catholic Church will begin to study this issue thoroughly and some day allow women to serve as priests. That’s probably the right thing to do.

It really doesn’t matter if it is the right thing to do by our human standards - and by most human standards it probably is the right things to do.

But it’s God who gave us priests and the priesthood - and as His adopted children, we should be thankful for this gift and remain content.

Historically I don’t think I can point to any example of humans making God’s gifts better by changing them.

 

[confusedgirl]

Well I grew up in one of them apostolic churches where you had to wear a hat to church if you are a woman and your skirt had to be covering your ankles (and people say Catholics are strict) I had never met like a female pastor pastor but I know plenty of them who preach sermons or “The Word of God” as they called it which is actually different from a sermon because it actually comes from God (wrap your mind around that one)

Anyways that church I went to sort of had rankings. You know like deacon, brother, sister, monsignor, bishop, ect. It was crazy how many positions they had… missionary, evangelist, elder, prophet, bishop, soooo many and basically if you were a missionary and up you were able to preach. Majority of this church were women the only men who had positions were the deacon, the pastor, and the assistant pastor (who is now the pastor) and all the rest were women and boy were they a dramatic bunch.

Every time something went on between one lady and another you will definitely be hearing it on Sunday. It gets so tiring too. My mom often got called out because she is one of those “troublemakers” with their own beliefs and opinions. I find more people actually left because of what these women were doing in the church. This is why I don’t think priests should marry either because wives play such a strong role in a husbands life and that can really negatively impact the church.

 

[4Squarebaby]

Well I grew up in one of them apostolic churches where you had to wear a hat to church if you are a woman and your skirt had to be covering your ankles (and people say Catholics are strict) I had never met like a female pastor pastor but I know plenty of them who preach sermons or **“The Word of God” **as they called it which is actually different from a sermon because it actually comes from God (wrap your mind around that one)

snip…
.

It is a claim by the speaker that she had the gift of prophecy and the speaker is giving the prophetic word.

 

[confusedgirl]

It is a claim by the speaker that she had the gift of prophecy and the speaker is giving the prophetic word.

Hmm they must be doing it wrong then because only the prophet claimed to have the prophetic word and his prophesies were much too generic to have me convinced. They said that Word of God was something that God told them to say in church… I am really not 100% on that (to be bluntly honest I wasn’t a very good member) but I do know that there are a great deal of false prophets out there

 

[adrift]

I
I do hope the Catholic Church will begin to study this issue thoroughly and some day allow women to serve as priests. That’s probably the right thing to do.

I was astounded by this statement. Do you really believe that the Church has not studied this issue? Do you really believe that when St. John Paul II issued ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS He did so without studying the issue? :nope:

The right thing to do? According to who? God instituted the priesthood. He made Aaron a priest and not his sister. You believe God didn’t do the right thing? Jesus did not choose a woman as an Apostle and you judge that not to be the right thing:shrug:

WOW!

 

[ethereality]

The phrase is “female pastors”. “Women” is a noun and cannot function as an adjective. There already is an adjective to describe the feminine gender of nouns – it is “female”. They are “female pastors”, not “women pastors”. This applies to “women x” in general. Please stop degrading the English language.

 

[Telstar]

The phrase is “female pastors”. “Women” is a noun and cannot function as an adjective. There already is an adjective to describe the feminine gender of nouns – it is “female”. They are “female pastors”, not “women pastors”. This applies to “women x” in general. Please stop degrading the English language.

The English language is slaughtered every day on this forum, just like sacrificial animals were in the Old Testament.

i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Telstars/Smilies/english-smiley.gif

 

[Irishgal49]

Irishgal, do you see the irony here? This is exactly what those have done in departing from the apostolic faith.

PnP

Well I would think that would make people happy. They say you can’t argue, it’s wrong to not agree, so you leave, right? That’s what I did, although not over this issue.

 

[Irishgal49]

2 thoughts:

Yes, you can’t make people believe something. But if that’s what Jesus says, one ought not say to Him, “I just don’t believe what you’re saying is true, Jesus.” What one ought to do is conform one’s views to Christ’s.

And if one shops around for a church that conforms to all of one’s beliefs, one is essentially joining the church of the Almighty Self rather than the Church of the Almighty.

Like my signature says: If your god never disagrees with you, you might just be worshiping an idealized version of yourself.

The problem would come in if you don’t believe that the Catholic Church is THE church established by Jesus but, rather A church. I don’t agree/believe that so I left. I don’t get whining and arguing about it. I’m always interested to read when people post these, figuring some may be struggling and that’s understandable that they would ask for help and even argue to some extent. Once you made a choice, seems like the rest is easy.

 

[PRmerger]

The problem would come in if you don’t believe that the Catholic Church is THE church established by Jesus but, rather A church. I don’t agree/believe that so I left. I don’t get whining and arguing about it. I’m always interested to read when people post these, figuring some may be struggling and that’s understandable that they would ask for help and even argue to some extent. Once you made a choice, seems like the rest is easy.

So which church is the church that Jesus established?

And what happened to it?

What church did the 1-5th century believers join and what did they profess? Did they have priests? Did they have the Eucharist? Did they have the Mass?

If not, when did priests and the Eucharist and the Mass come?

 

[PRmerger]

Well I would think that would make people happy. They say you can’t argue, it’s wrong to not agree, so you leave, right? That’s what I did, although not over this issue.

I don’t think it’s right to leave.

That’s what the disciples did in John 6 when Jesus said some things they couldn’t believe.

But that was a big mistake, no?

 

[Irishgal49]

I don’t think it’s right to leave.

That’s what the disciples did in John 6 when Jesus said some things they couldn’t believe.

But that was a big mistake, no?

Did Jesus chase after them? It was there choice then and is there choice now. He told the disciples to leave the people who were casting out demons in his name alone when the disciples wanted to go and launch into them. If people don’t believe your faith then they should leave. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t have people who genuinely disagree with unalterable beliefs, who refuse to agree to them, argue with them and tell them they have to stay. Are they Catholics or are they not? I have been told, on this forum, that if you disagree with those things you are not Catholic. So if they are not Catholic, they should leave. Very simple, effective, solves the problem.

I’m not talking about those who question, wrestle, are non-Catholics who are unsure, or those who are having a hard time. I’m talking about those people spend endless hours arguing with on here. I have seen no example where Jesus chased anyone down. So if you truly believe that the Catholic Church was the only church founded by Jesus, then if they don’t like it, tough luck, right? You see, some people don’t believe that stuff. They sincerely don’t. And you can write all day what they should do but at the end of the day they don’t buy it. That’s what I did, I took everyone’s advice. I left. I’m not being sarcastic. I’m not saying if someone’s struggling or genuinely having problems with one or two issues, I’m talking about people who totally do not believe something the Catholic Church teaches.

I don’t get it. I don’t get beating the same dead horses over and over and over. If they are struggling that’s one thing or they ask a question, but to tell people they have to do something doesn’t help them say yes to it. I totally get you are telling them what the Catholic Church says but at the end of all of this either they believe in the Catholic Church or they don’t. And if they don’t then they should leave.

Jesus let them leave and in instances where the Disciples argued about others Jesus pretty much said to leave them be, it’s God’s job to do the sorting.

 

[Irishgal49]

So which church is the church that Jesus established?

And what happened to it?

What church did the 1-5th century believers join and what did they profess? Did they have priests? Did they have the Eucharist? Did they have the Mass?

If not, when did priests and the Eucharist and the Mass come?

You are truly a sweet and caring person but this has been done before and I’m mentally not going there. My point was merely that I think that people have to believe they have no choice in order to make those assertions. If they are struggling and believe in the Church, they will just be told they have to ignore their feelings and believe it. No matter what. If they see this is the only place that can stamp their ticket they will have no choice but to agree with something even if they don’t --they will MAKE themselves believe it. I’m just saying if they don’t believe in the Church they should just leave. That would make all of this arguing unnecessary.

I have learned long ago on here that expressing what I believe will get my stuffed deleted. This is, after all, a Catholic forum. I like hearing from people and I read things because the forum is gracious enough to allow non-Catholics on here and there is a huge variety of comments and ideas. Don’t cast your pearls before swine. I hate pearls.

 

[JonNC]

Sometimes I wonder why all the negative attention to the expansion of Christianity. Women ministering to God’s people. We welcome all into the Church.
.

Lutherans are very welcoming, and pray for the expansion of the Christian faith.
My daughter is considered a minister to God’s people, as a teacher in a Lutheran parochial school. She is a member of the ministry team at her parish and school.

Jon

 

[Porknpie]

You are truly a sweet and caring person but this has been done before and I’m mentally not going there. My point was merely that I think that people have to believe they have no choice in order to make those assertions. If they are struggling and believe in the Church, they will just be told they have to ignore their feelings and believe it. No matter what.

Irishgirl,

You hit a key point above. Many rely on their “feelings” rather than reason. In doing so, they as everyone of us, can be deceived and lack the truth. In reading the Early Church Fathers, one finds a Catholic Church, complete with all seven sacraments instituted by Christ. In every case, the sacraments are administered by Catholic priests, all male. One reads of an One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. What’s amazing here is the consistency of faith. Whether it be North Africa, Spain, Syria or Turkey etc, no matter where on reads about this Catholic Church, one reads of all the sacraments, of the Priests and of the one faith, undivided. As St. Cyprian says

”Whence you ought to know that the bishop is in the Church, and the Church in the bishop; and if any one be not with the bishop, that he is not in the Church, and that those flatter themselves in vain who creep in, not having peace with God’s priests, and think that they communicate secretly with some; while the Church, which is Catholic and one, is not cut nor divided, but is indeed connected and bound together by the cement of priests who cohere with one another.” Cyprian, To Florentius, Epistle 66/67 (A.D. 254).

But it is true, if one relies on feelings (and does not inform the intellect properly), one can redefine terms and fit the Church to one’s own image.

PnP

 

[PRmerger]

Did Jesus chase after them? It was there choice then and is there choice now.

Of course.

But you can imagine the folly at…

walking away…

from JESUS!

All because He said something they didn’t like.
They thought they were right and Jesus was wrong! Imagine!

And that’s exactly what people are doing when they leave today.

 

[TheSeeker2014]

Personally,

I believe that women’s place when it comes to teaching the word of God is at the man’s side as an encourager, supporter and under his instruction if she takes the pulpit or spotlight for a moment to teach.
This is not to say women are not good enough to be a teacher of the word of God…
But man and woman each have their own duties that are just important as the other and they should stay to their assigned positions.
Women are best at what they do, likewise men.
It is also a good example of family positions. Because of leadership of those who need teaching of the basics or encouraging.

 

[PRmerger]

Personally,

I believe that women’s place when it comes to teaching the word of God is at the man’s side as an encourager, supporter and** under his instruction **if she takes the pulpit or spotlight for a moment to teach.

Under his instruction?

Why? Is he an infallible interpreter of the Word of God?