[Denver] Catholic school boots student with gay parents [AP]

[Hypatia]

Looking back through this priest’s sermons, one finds his vision of Catholic schools stated earlier this year. It contains some, rather ironic, reflections on the history of anti-Catholic bigotry and prejudice:

Two hundred years ago, as Catholics started arriving on American shores from countries in Europe, there was a great deal of prejudice against Catholics. In the public school system the hostility was especially acrimonious. So, an Episcopalian convert to Catholicism, Elizabeth Ann Seton, decided to do something about the problem. Precisely 200 years ago she started organizing a system of Catholic schools that eventually become standard operating procedure in parishes all over this wonderful country.

and then wraps up with the prophetic role of the modern Catholic school system:

Catholic schools are the locus of prophecy in our day. These are places where the truth is spoken, where God is honored and worshipped, where children learn to go to confession at least twice a year so as to gain some mastery over their baser desires, and where an extraordinary level of general education is going on at a mere fraction of the cost per pupil in public or private schools.

…and where the children of homosexuals are expelled, while others, in open discord with Church teaching, remain as long as they continue to pay the bills.

 

[Charlotte408]

Yes, but we teach the Catholic faith. Hospitals are different. We teach children their faith at catholic school. If you don’t want to be catholic, don’t come. While we can pray for the child and her “caretakers”, we cannot condone a sin brought on by their selfishness by adopting the poor child.

I apologize, but I just cant believe I read this. WHERE is the charity for the child? The kid is not going to a catholic school, and demanding that he be accepted as an active homosexual! Sins are not passed down, or, rubbed off by association…Its not this kids fault that his parents, adopted or whatever are living the lifestyle that they are.

An agenda is an agenda, and they put a kid there to make it harder for us to say they are pushing an agenda or turn them away. That’s the sick part of it. They’re using that little kid for their own disgusting ends.

Maybe they are, but, is that the kids fault??? Poor kid probably just wants to go to school, WHEREEVER that is, and be a normal kid, with friends…etc. Now this poor kid is probably being ridiculed, feels ostracized…That child is feeling firsthand the discrimination, the ‘hate’ that people have towards homosexuals. Afterall, his only crime is that he is the child of homosexuals, why should HE be punished??? This is sad to me.

You wouldn’t want a catholic hospital to be doing sex change operations or abortions would you? If they want that they can go elsewhere. These people that would try to do this at a catholic hospital have an agenda to push. If they don’t like our stance that’s tough.

This is a completely different situation, comparing apples and oranges. A person going into a catholic hospital and demanding an abortion for THEMSELF is one thing. A more similiar situation would be a young girl going into a catholic hospital for a wellness exam, and being denied because at one time her mother had an abortion. That is NOT right.

 

[JW10631]

I would like to see the gay parents of a child try to enroll their child in a madrassa - and then see what our Muslim friend has to say.

The child of an openly gay couple has no place in a Catholic school. They are suing their child as a tool to bash the Catholic Church. it is that simple. Too bad others can’t see that.

It is not the fault of the child the “parents” are open homosexuals. It is the fault of the “parents”.

Regardless of the status of Catholic education - and we all know it has slipped - it is useless to enroll this child, teach that homosexual behavior is wrong and then to go home and see it in action every day - from a Catholic point of view.

 

[Hypatia]

I would like to see the gay parents of a child try to enroll their child in a madrassa - and then see what our Muslim friend has to say.

The child of an openly gay couple has no place in a Catholic school. They are suing their child as a tool to bash the Catholic Church. it is that simple. Too bad others can’t see that.

It is not the fault of the child the “parents” are open homosexuals. It is the fault of the “parents”.

Regardless of the status of Catholic education - and we all know it has slipped - it is useless to enroll this child, teach that homosexual behavior is wrong and then to go home and see it in action every day - from a Catholic point of view.

I would quite happily level the same criticisms at any Muslim organization in America that ran a school in which it regularly allowed parents to enroll children, whether or not they subscribed to Muslim beliefs, and then randomly decided to expel a child because the parents were gay. It would be bizarre.

My real issue here is with the way in which bigotry is hiding behind religious teachings. IF Catholic schools were known for only taking the children of Catholics in good standing, you would not hear a peep from me on this. But this is not the case with Catholic schools, generally. Nor, is there any indication that it is even the case for this particular Catholic school.

I’ve seen no evidence that the parents are using their child to attack the Catholics. This school seems to have brought this situation entirely on itself by deciding not to allow the child to enroll again next year.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

I apologize, but I just cant believe I read this. WHERE is the charity for the child? The kid is not going to a catholic school, and demanding that he be accepted as an active homosexual! Sins are not passed down, or, rubbed off by association…Its not this kids fault that his parents, adopted or whatever are living the lifestyle that they are.

You can believe it and I stand quite firm.
The charity is not allowing her parents to use her as a political ploy for evil. Let her go to public school. Public school was good for me, and I think I would have more readily lost my faith after attending catholic school anyway. It’s better not to scandalize the rest of the impressionable kids in the school. It’s not her fault, but her parents want us to feel bad about it just so they can push buttons. They knew our stance before they wanted to sign her up. They must have flaunted their homosexuality, or we would probably not have known.

Maybe they are, but, is that the kids fault??? Poor kid probably just wants to go to school, WHEREEVER that is, and be a normal kid, with friends…etc. Now this poor kid is probably being ridiculed, feels ostracized…That child is feeling firsthand the discrimination, the ‘hate’ that people have towards homosexuals. Afterall, his only crime is that he is the child of homosexuals, why should HE be punished??? This is sad to me.

Poor kid, yes, but the child doesn’t have to go to private school. Have the child go to another private school. The kid’s not being ridiculed, her “caretakers” are. Pray for her.

Your sentiments are just those of the women who care for the child. Make the catholics feel remorse and sympathize with kids who have homosexuals care for them. That’s their evil ploy. They have people who support them even more than we have people who don’t. I don’t support homosexual adoption or homosexual lifestyles. That’s the Church’s stand and I stand with Her.

This is a completely different situation, comparing apples and oranges. A person going into a catholic hospital and demanding an abortion for THEMSELF is one thing. A more similiar situation would be a young girl going into a catholic hospital for a wellness exam, and being denied because at one time her mother had an abortion. That is NOT right.

Yes, ask Beau why that was brought up. They don’t make sense together to me, either. Notice how I said that.

Your second situation would never happen, because that happens all the time at catholic hospitals. Homosexual adoption is a newer fad and acceptance of homosexual relations in families is never okay. That child should never been put in that situation. It’s scandal and an abomination.

 

[Stylites]

That is NOT right.

The good archbishop has written his response to his secular and uninformed critics.

.

 

[Hypatia]

The Archbishop’s full column can be found here.

He doesn’t actually seem to add much to what had come before or actually provide any background that makes the decision understandable.

Many of our schools also accept students of other faiths and no faith, and from single parent and divorced parent families. These students are always welcome so long as their parents support the Catholic mission of the school and do not offer a serious counter-witness to that mission in their actions.

This seems similar to the “open discord” with Catholic teaching claim that was made earlier in the Archdiocese’s statement to the media. Unless they have a policy of only admitting children from Catholics in good standing, it hard to know how this type of policy, if applied consistently, wouldn’t eliminate a large number of their students (practically any non-Catholic).

 

[rlg94086]

I would quite happily level the same criticisms at any Muslim organization in America that ran a school in which it regularly allowed parents to enroll children, whether or not they subscribed to Muslim beliefs, and then randomly decided to expel a child because the parents were gay. It would be bizarre.

My real issue here is with the way in which bigotry is hiding behind religious teachings. ** IF Catholic schools were known for only taking the children of Catholics in good standing, you would not hear a peep from me on this.** But this is not the case with Catholic schools, generally. Nor, is there any indication that it is even the case for this particular Catholic school.

I’ve seen no evidence that the parents are using their child to attack the Catholics. This school seems to have brought this situation entirely on itself by deciding not to allow the child to enroll again next year.

Why are we hearing a peep from you at all? Catholic private schools are none of any non-Catholic’s business.

 

[Other_Eric]

The Archbishop’s full column can be found here.

He doesn’t actually seem to add much to what had come before or actually provide any background that makes the decision understandable.

This seems similar to the “open discord” with Catholic teaching claim that was made earlier in the Archdiocese’s statement to the media. Unless they have a policy of only admitting children from Catholics in good standing, it hard to know how this type of policy, if applied consistently, wouldn’t eliminate a large number of their students (practically any non-Catholic).

Neither single parenthood nor even divorce necessarily constitute evidence ongoing sin and defiance of Church Teaching in the way that a same-sex couple does. Even a a mother in the midst of a pregnancy that resulted from an out-of-wedlock sexual tryst can become reconciled with the Church through confession. Such a mother’s child would then be eligible for a Catholic education.

The case of a same-sex couple is different. It is a relationship that is, in all of its elements, utterly depraved and irreconcilable with Church Teaching. By its nature, it can produce nothing genuinely good. Even if we left aside the calculated malice that must have constituted the decision of this particular couple to send the preschooler to a Catholic school, we would still have to contend with the bare fact of the same-sex relationship itself, the incarnate evil it represents and the lack of even the possibility that this arrangement could in any way be compatible with what the Church teaches regarding human sexuality.

The Church is obliged to stand firm in her custodial role defending the Tradition and Teaching handed down to her. Often this will mean ejecting the willfully obstinate, their representatives, subordinates and sympathizers from the reception of such goods as the Sacraments, Corporal Works of Mercy and other privileges reserved to those who love Christ enough to modify their behavior and order their appetites accordingly.

 

[Hypatia]

Neither single parenthood nor even divorce necessarily constitute evidence ongoing sin and defiance of Church Teaching in the way that a same-sex couple does. Even a a mother in the midst of a pregnancy that resulted from an out-of-wedlock sexual tryst can become reconciled with the Church through confession. Such a mother’s child would then be eligible for a Catholic education.

This is why I’ve consistently used the example of divorced-and-remarried couples. One could extend all the same presumptions to them that one could to a same-sex couple. And I would still presume that a Muslim or Jewish or Baptist family would also be in open discord with Catholic teaching.

 

[Hypatia]

Why are we hearing a peep from you at all? Catholic private schools are none of any non-Catholic’s business.

They are free to run themselves as they see fit, of course. And the school can turn away whomever they please.

But Catholic schools have long been open to people from a wide variety of backgrounds and have been good places to receive quality education for one’s children, or to provide pre-school care and development, regardless of religious affiliation. I think this decision and what it signals about Catholic schools is going to be very interesting to people well beyond the bounds of Catholicism. Non-Catholics have been patronizing and supporting these institutions for at least a couple decades in America. Expect reaction.

Is a shoe about to drop? Are Catholic schools about to become places we don’t want to send our children? Even more than that, are they about to become places where we aren’t welcome?

 

[Elizabeth502]

Post 91:

You demonstrate repeatedly in your replies, that you do not understand the primary purpose of Catholic education, which is not to provide additional options for non-believers. It is to provide a refuge for Catholic values within an academic setting. As any Catholic school has room for those who are not Catholic but have agreed in writing to abide by, and uphold the teaching of, what is taught in those classrooms, that school will welcome the family – and again I stress, family [see my earlier reply for an explanation] – that accepts Catholic schooling on those terms.

It’s not for you or for any other non-Catholic to decide that you or they are on an equal footing with Catholics who seek a traditional Catholic environment. There are Catholic schools in some cities where the student body is 65+% non-Catholic, but it doesn’t change the religious or the values curriculum one iota.

You should also read the clergy’s further response on the incident, which was posted by another poster who used an excerpt from that publication as the thread opener. That clerical response specfically refutes the points you made in Post 91.

 

[markomalley]

1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and of a kind that is not found even among pagans; for a man is living with his father’s wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. 3 For though absent in body I am present in spirit, and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment 4 in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done such a thing. When you are assembled, and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
7 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 Let us, therefore, celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (1Corinthians (RSV) 5)
​

Sexual sin is sort of a strange thing after a while, as demonstrated by the example of the Corinthian Church. (Yes, I recognize that the specifics of the situation in Denver is not the same as the one described in Corinth above).

It demands that it be declared the norm. And then it pushes to the next level of perversity.

I’m sorry for the kid. But I’d hate to be the teacher who was confronted with the situation of saying, “I’m sorry, but your parents are living in a lifestyle that is condemned by God.” And I’d hate to be the parents of the other kids in the school who would have to explain, “No, your friend does NOT have two mommies.”

What SHOULD happen is that the kid should not be condemned to live with those two perverts. But since that isn’t going to happen in this DSM-IVTR world, the Archdiocese has done the right thing in deciding that “a little leaven leavens the whole lump” and purging that leaven out.

 

[kelvinf]

I have read most of the justifications presented so far but I still disagree with the decision not to re-enroll that kid.

I went to a catholic school (in another part of the world) for 8 years and from my experience, priests (or religious in general) are not the best of administrators. It seems to be the case with catholic schools world wide.
It’s my dream to see the administration of catholic schools transferred to the laity.
I believe the laity is better placed to take such controversial decisions.

Between last week and today, we (the laity) have been trying to defend the catholic church on mistakes or scandals (the one at the Odenwald Catholic school in Germany, the one at the Vatican and now this controversial decision).

We, the laity, have more contact with the secular world than the religious and I believe we are better placed to make such decisions.

 

[eichenb2]

That seems an uncharitable read of the situation, to say the least, in the absence of other information.

My first guess would be that the family simply wanted a quality pre-K. I know several Muslim families, for instance, that send their kids to Christian day cares, pre-schools and schools, and it certainly isn’t because they agree with Christians, but neither is it because they want to pick a fight, cause a scandal or otherwise attack Christianity. They simply want an educational setting that is good for their children.

Thank you. You are, indeed, approaching this with charity. That is very noble and I applaud you for it. I, however, having seen how the “gay rights” movement works. Given this experience, I tend to think that the move was calculated provocation, because people in that movement are actively seeking to undermine the Catholic Church and any instition that does not see it their way. If you are in doubt, see the book, “After the Ball”.

Regardless of intentions, though, (since God alone truly know) the Catholic Church is clear about their stance on homosexual activity and the Bishop (who is the representative of Christ) determined that this would cause scandal. Also, I am quite sure, that a priest discussed this issue with the woman and would have allowed the child to attend, if they would assent to the Church’s teaching in this matter.

Denver, Colo., Mar 8, 2010 / 09:34 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- Archbishop Charles Chaput of Denver weighed-in today on the recent decision to not re-enroll the child of a lesbian couple in a local Catholic school. The archbishop explained, “If parents don’t respect the beliefs of the Church, or live in a manner that openly rejects those beliefs, then partnering with those parents becomes very difficult, if not impossible.”

 

[eichenb2]

I have read most of the justifications presented so far but I still disagree with the decision not to re-enroll that kid.

I went to a catholic school (in another part of the world) for 8 years and from my experience, priests (or religious in general) are not the best of administrators. It seems to be the case with catholic schools world wide.
It’s my dream to see the administration of catholic schools transferred to the laity.
I believe the laity is better placed to take such controversial decisions.

Between last week and today, we (the laity) have been trying to defend the catholic church on mistakes or scandals (the one at the Odenwald Catholic school in Germany, the one at the Vatican and now this controversial decision).

We, the laity, have more contact with the secular world than the religious and I believe we are better placed to make such decisions.

This has nothing to do with the Proficiency of the school staff. All Catholic institutions are intending to being conducive to one end…Salvation of the World. Specifically, Catholic education is aimed to holiness; and this cannot be achieved by mocking Christ’s teaching on sodomy. WAKE UP, CATHOLICS!

 

[eichenb2]

1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and of a kind that is not found even among pagans; for a man is living with his father’s wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. 3 For though absent in body I am present in spirit, and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment 4 in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done such a thing. When you are assembled, and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
7 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 Let us, therefore, celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. (1Corinthians (RSV) 5)
​

Sexual sin is sort of a strange thing after a while, as demonstrated by the example of the Corinthian Church. (Yes, I recognize that the specifics of the situation in Denver is not the same as the one described in Corinth above).

It demands that it be declared the norm. And then it pushes to the next level of perversity.

I’m sorry for the kid. But I’d hate to be the teacher who was confronted with the situation of saying, “I’m sorry, but your parents are living in a lifestyle that is condemned by God.” And I’d hate to be the parents of the other kids in the school who would have to explain, “No, your friend does NOT have two mommies.”

What SHOULD happen is that the kid should not be condemned to live with those two perverts. But since that isn’t going to happen in this DSM-IVTR world, the Archdiocese has done the right thing in deciding that “a little leaven leavens the whole lump” and purging that leaven out.

Well stated!

 

[eichenb2]

Post 91:

You demonstrate repeatedly in your replies, that you do not understand the primary purpose of Catholic education, which is not to provide additional options for non-believers. It is to provide a refuge for Catholic values within an academic setting. As any Catholic school has room for those who are not Catholic but have agreed in writing to abide by, and uphold the teaching of, what is taught in those classrooms, that school will welcome the family – and again I stress, family [see my earlier reply for an explanation] – that accepts Catholic schooling on those terms.

It’s not for you or for any other non-Catholic to decide that you or they are on an equal footing with Catholics who seek a traditional Catholic environment. There are Catholic schools in some cities where the student body is 65+% non-Catholic, but it doesn’t change the religious or the values curriculum one iota.

You should also read the clergy’s further response on the incident, which was posted by another poster who used an excerpt from that publication as the thread opener. That clerical response specfically refutes the points you made in Post 91.

Also, well stated!

 

[kelvinf]

This has nothing to do with the Proficiency of the school staff. All Catholic institutions are intending to being conducive to one end…Salvation of the World. Specifically, Catholic education is aimed to holiness; and this cannot be achieved by mocking Christ’s teaching on sodomy. WAKE UP, CATHOLICS!

Let alone mocking Christ’s teaching on divorce (as some have said). Sin is Sin. Sodomy is not a bigger sin than divorce and vice versa.

We shouldn’t deprive a child from catholic education because of what his/her parents are. The benefits of this child partaking in catholic education shouldn’t be undermined.

This is an unfortunate decision.
Anyway, history will tell.

 

[eichenb2]

Let alone mocking Christ’s teaching on divorce (as some have said). Sin is Sin. Sodomy is not a bigger sin than divorce and vice versa.

We shouldn’t deprive a child from catholic education because of what his/her parents are. The benefits of this child partaking in catholic education shouldn’t be undermined.

This is an unfortunate decision.
Anyway, history will tell.

The benefits of the education (morally & spiritually) WILL BE UNDERMINED by turning a blind eye to the scandal of mortal sin.