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gmarie21
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This girl wasn’t dismissed mid-year, she was not given an invite back. BIG legal difference.
[Denver] Catholic school boots student with gay parents [AP]
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Bizzalou
Guest
Sounds good, but I have to believe that these lesbians knew already, that the Catholic Church had a distinctly opposing stance to their chosen lifestyle. If they didn’t then they made an uneducated choice for a school for the child, and I would question why they would so vehemently defend their choice, having been made out of ignorance to the church’s teaching. Nope…I don’t think they were unaware at all… I think they knew exactly what they were doing. Perhaps they’re striking out because they are embarassed that they’re forced to find another school.
Yes, it is unfortunate that the children are being drug through all of this. I blame the lesbians for that as well. They assumed the church would overlook their insistance on a sinful lifestyle, and they were wrong.
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JAGCath28
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I didn’t word my post very well. What I was trying to convey was that if the school officials felt uncomfortable having the girl there because of the lesbian relationship of the girl’s parents, then the school officials should sit down with the parents before making the decision to not invite her back (or however that works).
I agree with you that there is practically no way the parents were ignorant of the school/Catholic Church’s stance on homosexuality. Why they would choose to send their daughter there in the first place is beyond me. However, they did choose to do so, and the school did choose to accept her initially even if the school was ignorant to their lifestyle.
I never went to Catholic school because I am a convert so I don’t know how this all works. I guess I should find out since I’m hoping to send my future children to Catholic school one day. I did go to a private Christian school so I have some understanding to the private versus the public sector of education. I just don’t understand how a girl who for all we know was doing well in school and was no trouble to anyone, was not invited back because of her parents lesbian relationship. If my sisters and I were judged based on the sins of our parents, we probably wouldn’t have been allowed to attend our Christian school.
I do applaud the school’s courage for standing up for the beliefs of the Catholic Church. I just don’t know if disenrolling this girl was the right thing to do.
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gmarie21
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How do we know if there was or wasn’t a meeting regarding the upcoming school year? If my child wasn’t invited back (for whatever reason) I wouldn’t run to the media about it. Any good intentions on the women’s parts and their love for their child are undermined by the fact that they went to the media
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Hypatia
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and
I can’t find any public statements by the couple, nor anything about them. Where are you getting your information about the couple? The only statements I have seen have come from the priest, diocese and bishop.
The news reports I have seen have suggested that the story was given to the media by certain members of the school staff, not by the parents. The parents have, as far as I can tell, remained completely silent.
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Bizzalou
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I have to believe that it is not specifically a punitive action taken by the school against the lesbian couple to drive home a point, so much as the very reality of what obvious opposition their family life brings to the school, and the church as a whole. These girls of theirs are young yet, (yes they have two children in that school, not just the one) and not yet active in things like sports, or music, etc. The realistic expectation that a lesbian couple would cause a distracting issue at these school functions exists whether these women want to admit it or not. It is a direct 180 from what the church teaches, and what they look for as examples from the parents of the children they have enrolled. These women don’t realize that there is a responsibility for parents beyond getting them to and from school each day…that they are expected to uphold in a church sponsored school. They simply want to push their agenda and try to bring shame to the Catholic church for standing up for it’s principles, and they’re using their childrens as pawns to do so. Standing by our faith isn’t always easy, and I applaude the church for doing so here. It’s not a personal strike against these women…it is upholding a standard that has too often been sacrificed in the Church in recent years. We can’t go forward by stepping backward.
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Other_Eric
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This permissive guideline does not have the force of law unless the local bishop directs that it does. Further, what sort of well-founded hope can be established when the home environment consists of a relationship that is radically opposed to what the Church teaches regarding the meaning of sexuality and human identity? The Church is charged with safeguarding the Sacraments and making sure that the donation of a baptism to a child comes with the parent’s complete understanding of the responsibilities required of them. Absent this sort of well-founded hope, permitting the child to remain in a state where his or her immortal soul is in jeopardy of eternal damnation is a fitting way to ensure that all involved take the Sacrament seriously and not some mere symbolic custom.
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AnotherVoice
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I did read the previous posts and you should not imply otherwise.
You have affirmed the content of my first paragraph in post #137. Specifically, “the parish is saying – we don’t want any children in our midst who have gay people as guardians. In fact only children from homes that are in compliance with church teachings should be sent here; others may get confused when we discuss moral teachings.”
I don’t want to defend gays and I can’t judge the sincerity of her guardians; if they are merely using this child to further a gay rights agenda, as some have suggested, then there is a place they can go. But what if they just love the child and want the best for her. I assume that if two gay women ended up as guardians that the child’s previous environment was not very promising. I would not grant them guardianship of a child but this was something outside of the child’s control,
The road in front of this child is going to be a tough one because of the sexual orientation of the guardians, there are numerous threads on CAF that point to the problems caused by gay relationships. So I am not trying to defend the guardians, but I am worried about the child. Over this child’s formative years she will face a long list of rejections I feel badly that the catholic school will be among the first on that list.
As much as I would love to see the bishops take a stronger stance in a number of areas including catholic education; my heart still goes out to this five year old. I would love to see this child go on to learn the catechism and make her first communion and perhaps she will at another place.
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Elizabeth502
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Post 168: Wrong.
The child will face many more problems by continuing to stay in an environment which is at its core at odds with the parents’ lifestyle. That is a fact that cannot be reconciled.
The child will be better off in a more liberal environment. Usually that means a public school. But there are some secular private schools in some states that tend to cater to those with alternative lifestyles because these schools are even more liberal in their philosophy & politics than the publics. I know of some in my area, for example.
The child will face many more problems by continuing to stay in an environment which is at its core at odds with the parents’ lifestyle. That is a fact that cannot be reconciled.
The child will be better off in a more liberal environment. Usually that means a public school. But there are some secular private schools in some states that tend to cater to those with alternative lifestyles because these schools are even more liberal in their philosophy & politics than the publics. I know of some in my area, for example.
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AnotherVoice
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You can try to be dismissive all you want and pontificate about what is best for others but I still wish there was a way not to have a five year old rejected. Have a great night,
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Elizabeth502
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“Dismissive?” “Pontificating?” I think the shoe is on the other foot. (Yours.) And these comments were from a poster with a supposed concern for kindness. It is not I who has established the institution of Catholic schools, although I have much experience with them. I am the messenger, but as usual, I get vilified for that.
“The five year old,” having much less social awareness than an 11-year-old, will be far better off and far more clueless about what went on (unless the “parents” are stupid & irresponsible enough to describe it as rejection), than waiting until frank in-school sex ed takes place (which it will, because it does in Catholic schools), and until sexual awareness and talk becomes prominent among classmates. The “parents” have already lost a great deal of credibility in their lack of common sense in the first place, by placing that child in harm’s way. (I’m hardly the first person to notice this on this thread; I’m just one of the more recent posters, so I’m your convenient scapegoat.)
You not only have a lot to learn about the practical realities of Catholic schools, apparently you also have quite a bit to learn about childhood psychosocial development.
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Hypatia
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Prior to this incident, I would NEVER have thought of putting my child into a Catholic school as placing them “in harm’s way”! Unless the local school system in Boulder has a widely known history of this kind of behavior (which seems unlikely since the news has not mentioned it), I doubt the parents thought of it that way either. I also find it hard to believe that that is how Catholic schools want to be considered.
But, from this point forward, you can bet these parents, and a whole lot of others, are going to think of Catholic schools in precisely that way.
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elgar
Guest
Very well put. I only hope this sets a precident–perhaps a reminder–to Catholics the importance of words we speak during the Baptismal Rite. In the Book of Common Prayer,“We renounce Satan and his evil works”. I don’t know if it is standard procedure in most Catholic schools to read over a document of what is expected of parents of children to be enrolled, but if this was the case here, it really is an open and shut case. Carry this out to other situations involving divorce/re-marriage, parents contracepting, public sexual scandals, etc., now you’re looking at a huge meltdown of some of these institutions. My prediction is most dioceses and bishops will not enforce a similar stand since most bishops avoid controversy at all costs.
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Stylites
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Assuming that she is already baptised, there’s nothing stopping her from going forward to receive all the Sacraments of membership in the Church in due time; she doesn’t require a formal Catholic education for that.
If she is not already baptised, the Church would probably rightly refuse her the Sacrament unless it can be shown that she will be raised in a Christian home with Christian values.
Even so, the Body of Christ is much wider and bigger than Church membership. There are many non-Christians who will be in heaven while many church-going Catholics sadly will not.
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Elizabeth502
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Do you have a gay lover, and are you both posing as “parents” to a child? Because otherwise your comment is irrelevant.
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rlg94086
Guest
Fine. If that’s what you think, then don’t put your kids into a Catholic school system.
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Elizabeth502
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Correct. Catholic schools are not public schools with the addition of religion class. Catholic schools ***and the dynamics with the families who sign the enrollment contracts ***are fundamentally different from secular schools of any sort.
People who don’t like their premises, their assumptions, and the intimate family-to-school relationships there, should not be considering them as options for their children. The parents will end up uneasy, and most likely their children as well.
We didn’t like the premises and assumptions of the public schools, so our children were not enrolled there. No need for me to get on a High Horse about public schools, as a parent, and how I should be allowed to walk in there and “change” them or shame them or apply the Catholic view of education to them, or whatever my agenda would be in that case.
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redrosetea
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People always get umpty when the Church dares to act like what Christ intended it to be…Christ certainly didn’t put up with anything He felt was sinful
He not only drove the money changers from the temple…he whipped them, and overturned their tables…He withered a fig tree for not baring fruit out of season…He called the rich young man a fool and said tonight his life might be required
He gave us the sermon on the mount and said no man can serve 2 masters…to enter by the narrow path for the road to destruction is wide and to keep his commandments
I don’t care if people are bent out of shape…they can send their kids elsewhere
Christ made it clear we are to love God and keep His commands…you don’t love your neighbor by allowing them to spit in God’s face and telling them it doesn’t even matter please themsleves
He not only drove the money changers from the temple…he whipped them, and overturned their tables…He withered a fig tree for not baring fruit out of season…He called the rich young man a fool and said tonight his life might be required
He gave us the sermon on the mount and said no man can serve 2 masters…to enter by the narrow path for the road to destruction is wide and to keep his commandments
I don’t care if people are bent out of shape…they can send their kids elsewhere
Christ made it clear we are to love God and keep His commands…you don’t love your neighbor by allowing them to spit in God’s face and telling them it doesn’t even matter please themsleves
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rlg94086
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I know this will sound crazy, but I have never considered putting my kids into a Muslim school.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
One of the beauties of this country is that there are so many options in education. It may be compulsory, but you can choose any variety of educational solutions, including homeschooling.
I have not chosen a lesbian lifestyle, nor can I even imagine the cruelty of depriving a child of a father, but if I were a member of the “couple,” I would choose a private “progressive” secular school such as described earlier (because gay “couples” sometimes enroll in those), or I would choose a public school, or I would homeschool. The most inappropriate environment for the child would be a private Catholic or Christian school.
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