- I agree with Akin’s second point; some men are convicted of sin to salvation; some are convicted by the H.S. through their conscience, and are restrained from being completely evil (Jn 16:8; Rom 2:14-16). That is why, empirically, we see people doing “good things.” But, if they are not regenerate, they are always and only sinful (see #1 above).
You said above that unregenerate men are always and only sinful, but you just now said that some are restrained from being “
completely evil” by the conviction of the Holy Spirit acting on their conscience (in Catholic terminology, that’s responding to the Natural Law with God’s grace) - though they are still not as yet regenerate. Hmmmm…I want to look now at the verses you cite:John 16:8 “And when he comes, he will convince the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment”
Romans 2:14-16 “When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.”
The quote from John seems unrelated to your argument, while the verses from Romans seems to contradict your it. It seems the law is written in the hearts of men - good or evil.
This law written into the hearts of men demonstrate than man’s nature is not totally depraved.
That man cannot correctly respond to this law “written in their hearts” in such a way as to please God (i.e. being excused on the day of judgement) apart from the Holy Spirit is totally consistant with Catholic teaching.
Man can, however, respond to and obey that natural law for other reasons
apart from the action of the Holy Spirit however, such as fear of punishment. This is not “pleasing” to God in the same sense as above, as it won’t result in “being excused on the day of judgement”…but here’s the catch…it is not a sin either. Seems another blow to your description of “total depravity”.
- Free will is a misnomer. (Another topic).
Okay, I’ll skip this one for now and leave it for another day. Three words for you to think about though…Adam and Eve.
Akin then says something that I find truly amazing: “What would a Catholic think of this teaching? While he would not use the term “total depravity” to describe the doctrine…he would actually agree with it.” Think, for moment; what is he saying?
I believe he is saying what I just said above
…
Total depravity is total depravity. The term a Catholic would use is “wounded;” as soon as you change it to “wounded,” it is no longer “total depravity.”
With all due respect, the Catechism is reflecting on the effects of Original Sin on human nature,
before and even after baptism (or “bein’ saved” to use your phraseology). It is talking about these other effects on human nature that we all struggle against, saved and unsaved alike. It is definately
not saying that prior to “regeneration” we can somehow get to heaven.
It is saying that the effect of Original Sin on human nature (
besides the fact of cutting off that life of God in us that is necessary for salvation), is wounded “in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence.” I think evidence of this is quite apparent in the human condition we all experience and is testified to in Sacred Scripture.
For even the regenerate struggle with concupisence, as Hebrews 12:1 shows sin can still cling to the renerate, though we are called to turn from it and continue in sanctification to final perseverance:
Hebrews 12:1 “Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us,”
(Continued below…)
, I realize that that’s not much of a surprise…LOL)
so darn smart…)
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