Depression or Mystical Union?

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I have often wondered if what is often diagnosed as “depression” is actually a calling to intercessory prayer. Has it ever occurred to you that depressed Catholics may actually be having a mystical experience of the greater ‘body of Christ.’? What I mean is, like Mother Teresa, who became one with her people INTERIORLY, experiencing the interior woundedness of the people she was serving, therefore praying and interceding for their interior needs.

Maybe some Catholics who are depressed are depressed for the sake of the Body, the Church? Maybe those who struggle with depression only need to intercede for the downtrodden members of the Church?

What do you think?
 
I am convinced that if Mother Teresa had sought the council of a modern psychologist rather than experienced priests they would have diagnosed her with clinical depression and tried to drug her.
 
Fr. Dubay has a wonderful section in “Fire Within” that treats of the differences between depression and passively given spiritual trials … how they appear similar (on the surface) and how much mis-diagnosis happens in spiritual direction with regard to both.

Dave 🙂
 
I have discussed with others that many of those we see as great Saints or mystics from periods past would have been medicated out of the spiritual greatness had they lived today. Paul and St Francis pop up immediately.
 
Working with the poorest of the poor and seeing the tremendous human sufferings day in and day out is definitely a torment, especially on an extra loving heart as Mother Teresa’s. Yet Mother Teresa has never given up her service and always carries a deep smile on her face. It is probably safe to say that Mother Teresa, though went through a redemptive dark night, has kept the joy of the Lord in her long suffering.

Like Father Dubay mentioned in his book Fire Within, people in the dark nights have no depression at all. At work, play, meals, the person is as cheerful as possible. Their love, humility, patience are all greatly increased.

Dark night is a calling from God for deeper prayer. Clinical depression is an attack, a disease, a hormone imbalance, it is not a calling from God. They are different.

Psychiatrists who have no idea of the spiritual matters will easily mistake dark night for depression. Mother Teresa did not seek help from any psychiatrist for she knew she did not have a clinical depression.
 
I read a commentary book on St. John’s writing “Dark Night of the Soul,” (I can’t remember the name of the book) but in this book they would disagree that depression does NOT happen with the Dark Night. In this book it was suggested that depression very commonly accompanies the Dark Night. Mother Teresa smiled for the sake of others not necessarily for herself or her own interior condition. She smiled to help others to be less burdened.

Mother Teresa mentions, more than once,in her writings to her spiritual directors that she was concerned that she was being disingenuous because although she was smiling on the outside, she was in agony on the inside. See the book “Come be My Light”
 
I read a commentary book on St. John’s writing “Dark Night of the Soul,” (I can’t remember the name of the book) but in this book they would disagree that depression does NOT happen with the Dark Night. In this book it was suggested that depression very commonly accompanies the Dark Night. Mother Teresa smiled for the sake of others not necessarily for herself or her own interior condition. She smiled to help others to be less burdened.

Mother Teresa mentions, more than once,in her writings to her spiritual directors that she was concerned that she was being disingenuous because although she was smiling on the outside, she was in agony on the inside. See the book “Come be My Light”
Depression can occur simultaneously with passive trials … but as Inlight showed the two are in no way the same. St. John of the Cross took great pains to differentiate between the passive nights and “melancholia.”

St. John also shows that God, the devil and our natural selves can each have co-mingling effects in our soul. Just as scruples are sometimes called the devil’s Dark Night so too depression is a natural phenomena that can mimic the spiritual. But neither is what St. John of the Cross writes about.

Again, I highly recommend Fr. Dubay’s “Fire Within” as I think this work would answer any question you might have on the difference between depression and the passive nights.

Briefly, I’ll mention two.

First is the issue of debilitation. The soul going through the Dark Night is in no way hindered from their ability to fulfill the duties of their state of life. Rather they excel … heroically.

Second is the matter of introspection. The depressed individual is often greatly absorbed and wrapped up in their miseries. They are self-focused. The individual in the Dark Night does not dwell to nearly the same degree … and their focus is God-oriented.

And the fact that Mother Teresa had doubts about what she was going through in no way denies the spiritual aspect of what she was going through. In fact it points to confirmation. 🙂 Uncertainty is one of the meanings of St. John’s use of the word Dark Night.

All of this is very difficult to put down into words but trust me as someone with experience with depressed individuals as well as those going through passive trials … there’s a world of difference between the two.

Dave 🙂
 
One other thought …

Look to St. Teresa’s depiction of the passive night of spirit in mansion 6 of Interior Castle. This, perhaps, is a more “human” presentation than what we see from St. John (or at least easier to grasp with our minds).

Here she describes how her physical illnesses and ailments (a rough parallel to depression as the topic of this thread) contributed to her interior trials. A perfect illustration of the natural and supernatural having co-mingling effects.

The key was how she “experienced” all this and chose to respond. For her the supernatural aspects greatly trumped the natural.

Dave 🙂
 
As someone who has suffered from intense clinical depression, mystical union with God seemed like a joke at the time. I can say that what I experience has never seemed like anything but an un-mystical division from Him. It is more like: God is dead, I am dead, and everything is dead, bleak, and empty.

When the darkness is really intense, it is godless and sorrowing. That is nothing like the heavy shadow that our Lord took on Himself at the Cross out of love. Even if the depression did come close to imitating the Passion, nothing can ever equal the horrors experienced by the blessed Christ in our stead.

I see no union of any kind with anyone, in the bottom of the pit of despair. Read Psalm 87/88 (“O Lord God of my salvation”, “Domine Deus salutis meae”), and you will begin to understand it.
 
The depressed individual is often greatly absorbed and wrapped up in their miseries. They are self-focused. The individual in the Dark Night does not dwell to nearly the same degree … and their focus is God-oriented.
The above is what I wanted to say but did not know how to put into words. “Focus” is one of the main difference between depression and Dark Night. Like Dave mentioned, a depressed person is wrapped in his own pain, misfortunes, lament, and miseries. A person in Dark Night is focusing on his relationship with God.
Originally by Lady Love
Mother Teresa mentions, more than once,in her writings to her spiritual directors that she was concerned that she was being disingenuous because although she was smiling on the outside, she was in agony on the inside.
I can understand Mother Teresa’s concern. As a genuine person, it is natural to want consistency between inside and outside. Her outside smile is her natural charity toward people along with the inner flow of the peace from the Lord. Her smile is genuine, it is not fake. Her inside agony is due to her trial of the Dark Night. There is actually no conflict at all. But a saint cares about any tiniest possibility of displeasing God. Therefore, it’s natural for Mother Teresa, or anyone who is conscientious about holiness, to bring this up to the spiritual director. This by all means has no hint that she was suspicious about depression.
Originally by DBT
And the fact that Mother Teresa had doubts about what she was going through in no way denies the spiritual aspect of what she was going through. In fact it points to confirmation. Uncertainty is one of the meanings of St. John’s use of the word Dark Night.
 
What do you think?
If you are in someway reffering to yourself, I ask this question: Do you have a spiritual director and a regular confessor? If not, obtain one. Your spiritual director would be of more help than these forums in such a serious matter.
 
In the sacrament of Reconciliation on numerous occasions it was suggested to me that I was suffering the Dark Night of the Soul (although not currently). I do read the writing of St. John and St. Teresa and can relate and understand their writings, not through knowledge but through experience. Based on my experience I would say that I do not yet understand the full implications of the Dark Night. It’s mystery and purpose are still unraveling for me and I’m sure that much of it will be met with greater understanding in the future. There was so much going on in such a short 3 year period that I don’t even have the brain capacity to process all it’s meaning or it’s effects.

My point is more that in Mystical Union with the Body of Christ (the Church) an individual can enter into the sufferings of others by interior experience. My question is: Are some people being misdiagnosed with depression when in actuality they are being called to a vocation of intercessory prayer for members of the Body of Christ who are in darkness?
 
Oh, and by the way, for someone who has enjoyed the awareness of God (I’m not speaking of the sweetness of God, although any awareness is sweeter than no awareness) to be suddenly deprived of this awareness and even victim to what seems like His spurning, is enough to make a person depressed, seriously depressed.

Here is an excerpt from the Divine Mercy Library:

The ‘Dark Night’ — That “dark night” remained almost to the end of Faustina’s Novitiate. What is the “dark night of the soul?” The phrase, today almost a spiritual cliche, was coined in the 16th century by Spanish poet and Catholic mystic, St. John of the Cross. The phrase is both a title to a poem he wrote and a book that contains his commentary on the poem. The Carmelite priest’s work examines the stages of development he underwent on his journey to holiness.

Most of us have heard the term “dark night” in reference to spirituality. We associate it with spiritual progress and may idly (and always when we are not in one) wish for our own “dark night” experience. If, however, one truly knew what the dark night is like, he or she wouldn’t wish for it. To sum up in a few words what properly takes a book: the dark night of the soul is the feeling of utter abandonment, an interior suffering that seems as if it will never end.

One writer described it as a “lengthy and profound absence of light and hope.” When you’re in this interminable state, there’s nothing you can do with the mind or body — no thought or action, no idea or motion — that can “get you out of it.” You feel trapped and can’t find the exit. No one can help you. You want nothing more than to escape and get out of the “night.” You’d even give your own soul, and so you do.

You’re stuck.

No One, No Where, with No Thing — It comes as no slice of relief to realize that this “dark night” is actually a literal form of contact with a field of higher consciousness. It is matter meeting antimatter, the relative making contact with the Absolute, the tenuous brushing up against Omniscience and Omnipresence.

The seeker in the midst of the dark night is not in a relationship with God any longer but experiencing an immersion in Him. One’s ego begins to dissolve, willingly or not. All previous ways of defining the self vanish, leaving you feeling like no one, nowhere, with nothing. The phenomenon then takes on urgency. You are No One, No Where, with No Thing. **You question your sanity and may think you are losing your mind.
**
The loving and merciful God has you just where He wants you.

Traditional prayer is useless. Ritualistic worship becomes agony. All the “safe” ways you knew of praying disappear, giving way to a transitional phase of contemplation before morphing into an utter inability to pray. Spiritually, God is making room for Himself in you, but “knowing” this provides no comfort. You believe the opposite is true. You believe God has abandoned you. All you can do is wait, feeling alone. That is one frightening space to be in.

For all you know, your prayer life has collapsed and God has left you. You are, in poet Andre Gide’s striking image, like a moth inside a cocoon trying to know itself. The moth that tries this will never become a butterfly. All it can do is let the transformational process happen. So is the soul caught in the midst of the dark night, in the Experience of No Self. God begins to take over. You begin to change and the old “you” is no more. You dread every minute of it.
 
My question is: Are some people being misdiagnosed with depression when in actuality they are being called to a vocation of intercessory prayer for members of the Body of Christ who are in darkness?
There is much misdiagnosis as Fr. Dubay shows … but it typically goes the other way.

Dave 🙂
 
…to be suddenly deprived of this awareness and even victim to what seems like His spurning, is enough to make a person depressed, seriously depressed.
Maybe you should seek medical counsel along with the spiritual direction you’re receiving?

I don’t know anyone undergoing passive, interior trials who would speak of their experience in such a way. Your extend comments (which you must have been adding when I originally posted) describe many aspects of the passive night. But “depression” just doesn’t fit the experience.

There is likely something else going on.

Blessings and peace,
Dave 🙂
 
Maybe you should seek medical counsel along with the spiritual direction you’re receiving?

I don’t know anyone undergoing passive, interior trials who would speak of their experience in such a way. Your extend comments (which you must have been adding when I originally posted) describe many aspects of the passive night. But “depression” just doesn’t fit the experience.

There is likely something else going on.

Blessings and peace,
Dave 🙂
When I speak of the “Dark Night,” I am speaking in past tense because at this junction in my life I am happier than a pig in … I am not depressed at all, nor am I prone to depression. I am thinking about those who supposedly suffer depression. When I was going through my Dark Night you wouldn’t believe what people would try to say was wrong with me. Well, intentioned people who only wanted to fix my problem. I was not aware that what I was experiencing was the Dark Night. I sought psychological help which was absolutely useless and nothing they suggested worked. I thought all the positive thoughts, punched my pillows, cried, etc.etc.(although, I refused any and all medications) but in the end, the Dark Night left me almost as suddenly as it came upon me. Strange experience all in all.
 
Originally by Lady Love
Mabe some Catholics who are depressed are depressed for the sake of the Body, the Church? Maybe those who struggle with depression only need to intercede for the downtrodden members of the Church?
Your original question focused on depression, and you link depression with God’s calling. That is very far fetched to me. Like I mentioned in my first post, depression is a sickness. A sickness is never a God’s calling. Those who struggle with depression have to seek medical treatment. Interceding for the downtrodden members of the Church will not cure their depression and adjust the imbalance of their body chemicals.

By the way, interceding for others is our natural duty of charity.
 
I don’t know. I just reviewed a site, “What is depression?,” and it is very fuzzy. It seems to be the label given to all negative emotions and feelings and the cause of depression is “unknown.” There are so many things factoring into the causes of depression which makes it very vague and treatment often ineffectual.

Statistics say that women are more depressed then men and it is attributed to menstrual cycles and hormonal changes. So are women really depressed or just cycling? I read a book once which explains that all women should expect “cycles” of emotion every month (meaning that it is not an illness but normal) and to make allowances for these “cycles.” The first part of the cycle being the creative and outgoing phase otherwise known as the “Light Phase” and the second half of the cycle, “Dark/Moon Phase,” is the reflective and resting phase of the menstrual cycle, a time to slow down and nurture yourself. The negative feelings are associated with the bodies “let down” that life did not come into being. So maybe it’s possible that all these women are not depressed but actually normal?

This has nothing to do with Mystical Union, it is just a tangent. But I guess the connection I am trying to make here is that maybe most forms of depression are just a “cycle” in the human experience and everyone’s cycles are different. Everything in nature has a “cycle” and maybe the spirit has cycle’s too and maybe some people don’t cycle out of it until the soul has completed it’s course?
 
But I guess the connection I am trying to make here is that maybe most forms of depression are just a “cycle” in the human experience and everyone’s cycles are different. Everything in nature has a “cycle” and maybe the spirit has cycle’s too and maybe some people don’t cycle out of it until the soul has completed it’s course?
As a man I can’t (won’t) comment on most of your last post:) But I have a fair amount of experience with those suffering clinical depression. I don’t think any of them would see it as a cycle.🙂

And I also have an elective responsibility to a large group of Carmelites to help them with the type of spiritual issues you mention throughout this thread. I only speak as I do as matter of caution. I see much confusion as to the natural and supernatural and many things that would be a red flag if brought to my attention in community. I’ve been down this path more than once.

I pray that you have good spiritual direction … for it is exceedingly difficult to find competent guidance even when matters are clear cut. And there’s much here that is muddled … which only makes it all the more difficult to sort out what is what.

What I know for sure: you won’t find your answer here on these forums. 🙂

Blessings and Peace,
Dave 🙂
 
Speaking from a female’s point of view and experiences, a woman may get slightly moody for only “couple days” in her menstrual cycle, but that is totally different from depression.

Mixing female cycle with depression, or mixing natural with supernatural simply brings unnecessary confusions.

I agree with what others said that spiritual direction is your best choice. God bless!
 
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