Describe mortal vs venial sin

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teachccd said:
Yes, murder is always grave matter. However on a battle field one kills in self defense. Soldiers protect and defend our country. An example might be if someone broke into your home and threatened your family. If the person was armed and the only way that you could prevent the destruction of your or your family’s life is to take the intruder’s life then your full consent was altered by the duress that you were under.The act of killing is grave matter but the situation rendered full consent unattainable…
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The above quote contains serious doctrinal errors. Also, the above-stated claim is false and absurd that duress alters consent, allowing you to kill even though the act is supposedly gravely immoral.

Murder is the direct and voluntary killing of an innocent human being; murder is intrinsically evil and always gravely immoral. Murder is an objective mortal sin. When murder is committed with full knowledge and full consent, then the act is an actual mortal sin.

Killing is not grave matter. If it were, then killing in self-defense, the use of the death penalty, killing in defense of the community (for law enforcement officers), and in defense of the nation, would be an objective mortal sin and always immoral. The Church teaches that certain types of killing are not objectively immoral.

If the person who is killed is not innocent, because they were attacking you, or your family, or your country, with deadly force, then killing the attacker is not murder. Not all killing is murder.

Indirect killing is not murder. For example, when an attack on an enemy military target during a just war indirectly and unintentionally kills some innocent civilians, then these deaths are not murder. The deaths are an unintended consequence in the third font.
 
teachccd said:
Yes, murder is always grave matter. However on a battle field one kills in self defense. Soldiers protect and defend our country. An example might be if someone broke into your home and threatened your family. If the person was armed and the only way that you could prevent the destruction of your or your family’s life is to take the intruder’s life then your full consent was altered by the duress that you were under.The act of killing is grave matter but the situation rendered full consent unattainable…
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Murder and necessary self defense are different moral objects.

it is NOT the circumstance or the situation that changes things…

the object one is talking about is DIFFERENT.

as the Church teaches…a circumstance or intention can not make an intrinsically evil object into a good…

but this is not what is happening here.

it is simply “not murder”
 
There’ve been some fantastic posts so far! This is slightly off topic: I get the difference between mortal and venial sins, but what exactly constitutes a cardinal sin?

Thanks!
  • TS17
 
Truth_Seeker17 said:
There’ve been some fantastic posts so far! This is slightly off topic: I get the difference between mortal and venial sins, but what exactly constitutes a cardinal sin?

Thanks!
  • TS17
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There are no ‘cardinal sins’…(except the ones the cardinals confess…)

There are only Cardinal Virtues…

from the Catechism;

The cardinal virtues

1805 Four virtues play a pivotal role and accordingly are called “cardinal”; all the others are grouped around them. They are: prudence, justice, fortitude, and temperance. "If anyone loves righteousness, [Wisdom’s] labors are virtues; for she teaches temperance and prudence, justice, and courage."64 These virtues are praised under other names in many passages of Scripture.

1806 Prudence is the virtue that disposes practical reason to discern our true good in every circumstance and to choose the right means of achieving it; "the prudent man looks where he is going."65 "Keep sane and sober for your prayers."66 Prudence is “right reason in action,” writes St. Thomas Aquinas, following Aristotle.67 It is not to be confused with timidity or fear, nor with duplicity or dissimulation. It is called auriga virtutum (the charioteer of the virtues); it guides the other virtues by setting rule and measure. It is prudence that immediately guides the judgment of conscience. The prudent man determines and directs his conduct in accordance with this judgment. With the help of this virtue we apply moral principles to particular cases without error and overcome doubts about the good to achieve and the evil to avoid.

1807 Justice is the moral virtue that consists in the constant and firm will to give their due to God and neighbor. Justice toward God is called the “virtue of religion.” Justice toward men disposes one to respect the rights of each and to establish in human relationships the harmony that promotes equity with regard to persons and to the common good. The just man, often mentioned in the Sacred Scriptures, is distinguished by habitual right thinking and the uprightness of his conduct toward his neighbor. "You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor."68 "Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven."69

1808 Fortitude is the moral virtue that ensures firmness in difficulties and constancy in the pursuit of the good. It strengthens the resolve to resist temptations and to overcome obstacles in the moral life. The virtue of fortitude enables one to conquer fear, even fear of death, and to face trials and persecutions. It disposes one even to renounce and sacrifice his life in defense of a just cause. "The Lord is my strength and my song."70 "In the world you have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."71

1809 Temperance is the moral virtue that moderates the attraction of pleasures and provides balance in the use of created goods. It ensures the will’s mastery over instincts and keeps desires within the limits of what is honorable. The temperate person directs the sensitive appetites toward what is good and maintains a healthy discretion: "Do not follow your inclination and strength, walking according to the desires of your heart."72 Temperance is often praised in the Old Testament: "Do not follow your base desires, but restrain your appetites."73 In the New Testament it is called “moderation” or “sobriety.” We ought "to live sober, upright, and godly lives in this world."74
Code: 
To live well is nothing other than to love God with all one's heart, with all one's soul and with all one's efforts; from this it comes about that love is kept whole and uncorrupted (through temperance). No misfortune can disturb it (and this is fortitude). It obeys only [God] (and this is justice), and is careful in discerning things, so as not to be surprised by deceit or trickery (and this is prudence).75
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a7.htm#I
 
Bookcat,

Your list of mortal sins is 100% accurate, but I only know this from watching a lot of EWTN. I am writing a research paper of sorts, and would like include an examination of conscience that differentiates between venial and mortal. Can you recommend one that I can be sure is not just someone’s opinion?
 
beckymozart said:
Bookcat,

Your list of mortal sins is 100% accurate, but I only know this from watching a lot of EWTN. I am writing a research paper of sorts, and would like include an examination of conscience that differentiates between venial and mortal. Can you recommend one that I can be sure is not just someone’s opinion?
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Hummm…not off the top of my head. But use the CCC …as it says

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 …

So there is something under each of them 🙂

put the words ‘grave sin’ and later do "grave’-- in this search engine…scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

a number of things in the ccc are actually noted as grave …or when they become grave…

can do the same with the compendium but use the find option on your computer …

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

also there is an index in the back of the CCC that refers you to individual grave sins…but be careful…for it is not necessarily part of the ccc…(not sure who put it together) and can refer you to general catagories…where not everything is grave that is there…
 
OnceLostSoul said:
The pastor’s reply was that
a) one cannot build a theology based on a single verse.
b) any teaching that white lies are not sins that condemns one to Hell if one dies unrepentant would contradicts scripture verse Rev 21:8.

Sounds like that pastor is contradicting himself & is basing his theology on one …verse (Rev 21:8) :eek:
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Bookcat,

A teenager and I were talking recently about sexual sins and I told him he should not watch movies and television shows that are vulgar or sexually explicit. You could tell he very much wanted to do the right thing, and he said to me, “By that standard I shouldn’t even watch “Friends”.” Where does the Church draw the line for it to be a mortal sin to watch a television show? If one suggestive joke condemns us to hell, it seems that the Church would want to make this clear.
 
Regardless of dogma, it seems clear that the deeper I swim into Catholic faith the clearer it becomes that *every * aspect of my society is disordered and ill. My challenge is to remember that I am part of that society, and therefore just as guilty of such sin, and that society is crying out for healing.

Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. (Romans 2:1).
 
beckymozart said:
Bookcat,

A teenager and I were talking recently about sexual sins and I told him he should not watch movies and television shows that are vulgar or sexually explicit. You could tell he very much wanted to do the right thing, and he said to me, “By that standard I shouldn’t even watch “Friends”.” Where does the Church draw the line for it to be a mortal sin to watch a television show? If one suggestive joke condemns us to hell, it seems that the Church would want to make this clear.
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It would be moral sin when there is a grave matter, full knowledge and complete consent.

Regarding the matter:

Pornography is of course grave matter.

Of course we must not watch pornography (including so called soft core)

…and one would want to avoid anything like that…explicit scenes…

Does this mean we can not watch a movie that has some sexual scene or nudity in it?
If the person is mature enough (and it is not a near occasion of sin) they can fast forward while looking away…or if it is on cable…handle it some other way such as turning it off …etc. A teenager…may not be ready for that. prob. not…but perhaps in things that are only suggestive…

(of course one needs to avoid the near occasion of mortal sin…)

What about jokes? Well Christians of course should avoid such…

but if they are present in the show or movie…it can still be possible to watch the show…for such things are everywhere… for the good of the show…(so long as it is not a near occasion of mortal sin for example)… now it is possible for such humor to lead a person into a venial or even mortal sin…each person is different.

and we need avoid scandal…leading others to sin…what one person ‘can handle’ another cannot…

but it is not that “one suggestive joke condemns us to hell”… or to mortal sin… normally! (but it depends on the joke and the person…and teenagers well are full of lots of hormones…)

So basically…yes it is possible for a Christian to watch ‘mixed’ shows…for most are mixed! depending on the content…

But they need to prudently judge which ones to watch…or not watch…

using Christian judgment. (and there is a lot of stuff out there not worth watching)

and a teenager of course needs help with this…(and the parents in particular should set limits) for they can easily be influenced and it can become a temptation or even a near occasion for them…depending…

and I will add …the stuff they make for teens…even PG rating or pg-13 is well geared to stir up lust etc…or is full of jokes contrary to our dignity…mostly of a sexual nature…so this too is important to realize… the a Christian teen needs to stand firm against the current 'teen culture" and follow Christ (get him the talks from Pope Benedict from the World youth days…)

and honestly …i could not recommend Friends from what I have seen of it …which is not much I should add (though a friend when I was at Steubenville…actually had a friend who was part of the cast…but that cast person was not at the university with us)

In all these things…it is about following Christ…

It is important to Remember that as Christians we are of the light …not the darkness…and we need to walk in the light and be a light for others…

and that we are not to “conform ourselves to the world” …but rather “renew our minds”

Please print this from Pope Benedict XVI and read it…perhaps pass it on to the teenager…(and find his talks form world youth day…)

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html

another source to go to regarding movies etc is decentfilms.com there are articles there too…

hope this helps!
 
There are a series of monthly examinations of conscience here provided by an F.S.S.P. priest.

They are from Rev. Donald F. Miller, C.SS.R., have an Imprimatur from Joseph E. Ritter, St. Louis, April 7, 1959.

I recommend it for a thorough scrubbing and polishing of the soul.

It might be a little too thorough for the scrupulous however, who should remember to treat themselves gently and one step at a time.

Quoting:
**
The Seven Deadly Sins**

We should not be satisfied merely to keep the commandments of God, but should always be ready to do good deeds, even when they are not commanded. The commandments of God state the minimum requirements for salvation. They should be kept not merely according to the letter, but also according to the spirit, which obliges us to strive for greater perfection.

Actual sin is any willful thought, desire, word, action or ommission forbidden by the law of God.
  1. PRIDE: Unrestrained appreciation of our own worth.
  2. GREED: Immoderate desire for earthly goods.
  3. LUST: Hankering for impure pleasures.
  4. ANGER: Inordinate desire for revenge.
  5. GLUTTONY: Unrestrained use of food and drink.
  6. ENVY: Sorrow over another’s good fortune.
  7. SLOTH: Laxity in keeping the Faith and the practice of virtue, due to the effort involved.
THE FOUR SINS CRYING TO HEAVEN FOR VENGEANCE
  1. Willful murder (including abortion)
  2. The sin of Sodom.
  3. Oppression of the poor.
  4. Defrauding laborers of their wages.
THE SIX SINS AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT
  1. Presumption of God’s mercy.
  2. Despair.
  3. Impugning the known truth.
  4. Envy at another’s spiritual good.
  5. Obstinacy in sin.
  6. Final impenitence.
NINE WAYS OF BEING ACCESSORY TO ANOTHER’S SIN
  1. By counsel.
  2. By command.
  3. By consent.
  4. By provocation.
  5. By praise or flattery.
  6. By concealment.
  7. By partaking.
  8. By silence.
  9. By defense of the ill done
 
donanobis said:
Mortal sin is a pretty serious offense against God. Could someone give a little refresher as to what constitutes a mortal sin? what constitutes a venial sin?
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Consider, if you will what the word “mortal” means as opposed to “immortal”. A mortal sin is a sin that denies God’s offer of salvation.
Such a sin requires that one knowingly goes against the Will of God, that is, the sin is committed through a obstinate and willful disobedience.
So- the root of a mortal sin is a rejection of God, of His kingship over you and a rejection of His saving grace within you.
If our belief system changes, does what is mortal sin change? or is a sin mortal depending on whether we believe it or not?
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This would depend a lot on what you mean by a change in “our belief system”.
If that change is from belief to disbelief for example, rejecting ones baptism in favor of atheism, then this by itself is a mortal sin for it rejects God. Any sin committed after that is of little matter on it’s own since one is already “dead” (not in a state of grace) due to the rejection of God.

Peace
James
 
crenfro said:
I prefer this examination of conscience too. It has the imprimatur and nihil obstat. Life-changing, I think. Just got it today in the mail in pamphlet form.
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Can not say that I recommend this one…too much opinion there. Some of which I disagree with…
 
Which do you disagree with? The only one I found weird was the Dungeons and Dragons one. I suppose the fact that it has occult themes and some kids murdered their parents over it.
 
i would have to go thru bit by bit…but here is an example:

“failure to examine one’s conscience daily” is listed as a venial sin…

since when has this been the case?

It is good to do…of course…

other things can are worded in a way that can be misunderstood …open the doors to scruples etc…

or even be mortal sins …

or like i said are just the author’s opinion…
 
beckymozart said:
Which do you disagree with? The only one I found weird was the Dungeons and Dragons one. I suppose the fact that it has occult themes and some kids murdered their parents over it.
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i would have to go thru bit by bit…but here is an example:

“failure to examine one’s conscience daily” is listed as a venial sin…

since when has this been the case?

It is good to do…of course…

other things can are worded in a way that can be misunderstood …open the doors to scruples etc…

or even be mortal sins …

or like i said some are just the author’s opinion…
 
I would agree with you on that one, but he does preface that list by saying he doesn’t differentiate between venial sins and imperfections, which are not sins. Don’t interpret me as necessarily defending this particular examination…I just like the (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
beckymozart said:
I would agree with you on that one, but he does preface that list by saying he doesn’t differentiate between venial sins and imperfections, which are not sins. Don’t interpret me as necessarily defending this particular examination…I just like the (name removed by moderator)ut.
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must admit i did not read that line…i scanned the thing quickly…

but still it would not be one i would be recommending.
 
In addition to what already wrote…

it opens the door to scruples and is not clear …

for example under mortal sin it includes…

“denying help to the poor, needy or destitute when able to help them easily”

He says this is serious matter…without further detail…

so a poor person asks for money on the street…and you easily could give them a couple dollars…but do not…that is mortal sin???

of course there are ways to commit a mortal sin in this area…

or “knowingly voting for someone who is pro-abortion” is also grave…

well it can be…

but what about when both canidates are pro abortion??

this just is too fuzzy…and like i said bound to cause people problems…especially those with scruples! in fact a mine-field for them…
 
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