Desecration of the blessed sacrament

[jonbhorton]

Oops. You are correct. I misunderstood. I stand by my point, though. Either way, he stole it by way of his mouth, not carrying it away in his hand, or putting it in his pocket. What difference would it have made if the priest was the one who put it in his mouth?

Given the rubrics of kneeling, COTT, it would be all but blatantly obvious, if not patently blatant, that the knowledge was nil, and the intent was possibly malicious. This as opposed to sticking one’s hand out like Oliver Twist in some Depression-era food line.

If this was unnoticed, and the person did receive the Host, I suspect the excitement at almost-success would result in the breaking of other obvious processes in the exiting of the sanctuary- particularly in an immediate fashion.

(note: “you” following " … men." is directed in the general sense and no one reading)
I don’t know about your parish, but the parish I attend in the EF form has some heavy hitters for ushers. Real manly men. The kind who would ask you how you enjoyed the service in a truthful manner while choking you out until you spit Jesus out of your unworthy mouth.

 

[anp1215]

Given the rubrics of kneeling, COTT, it would be all but blatantly obvious, if not patently blatant, that the knowledge was nil, and the intent was possibly malicious. This as opposed to sticking one’s hand out like Oliver Twist in some Depression-era food line.

If this was unnoticed, and the person did receive the Host, I suspect the excitement at almost-success would result in the breaking of other obvious processes in the exiting of the sanctuary- particularly in an immediate fashion.

(note: “you” following " … men." is directed in the general sense and no one reading)
I don’t know about your parish, but the parish I attend in the EF form has some heavy hitters for ushers. Real manly men. The kind who would ask you how you enjoyed the service in a truthful manner while choking you out until you spit Jesus out of your unworthy mouth.

I’ve never seen anyone “sticking [their] hand out like Oliver Twist in some Depression-era food line” to receive the Eucharist. I also don’t see how a non-Catholic kneeling to receive Communion OTT would make it so obvious that they weren’t a Catholic. Kneel, open mouth. Watch others around you to see what they’re doing first.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I don’t know about your parish, but the parish I attend in the EF form has some heavy hitters for ushers. Real manly men. The kind who would ask you how you enjoyed the service in a truthful manner while choking you out until you spit Jesus out of your unworthy mouth.

So your ushers determine the worthiness of individuals for reception of the Eucharist and you promote physical violence to them if the usher deems them as unworthy?

 

[Leon_Bloy]

Jesus asked St. Margaret Mary in the apparitions she received to spread devotion to the Sacred Heart… one thing asked for was communions of reparation for offenses against the Blessed Sacrament.

This also reminds us that we should keep an eye on things if we see something suspicious at mass. I speak up if I see somebody walk away with a host at mass. This has not happened to me yet (it has to priests that I know) but I would have no qualms about physically intervening with a person who tried to walk off with a host.

 

[rhiannonh]

he might even be a good regular catholic who has just fallen out with the church and lashing out in a way guaranteed to hurt. So no one would realise if he had a plan for communion.

Whatever reason I do not see how one can stop another from receiving communion again because we are to receive it in sickness and in health and clearly the guy needs all the love of God he can get to help him through whatever it is he is battling with and anyone who for whatever reason exits church with the consecrated wafer intact. It upto the priest and church goers to welcome them back another time and try to be there for each other. Jesus welcomes the sinner. We are all sinners. We all want our sins to be forgiven.

 

[centurionguard]

In my almost ten years working as a sacristan/custodian of my parish you’d be surprised in the course of a month in different weeks what I’d find on the floor underneath the pews while sweeping and mopping up. Host’s half chewed and spit out on the floor or placed conspicuously out of sight under the pew with gum attached to the wood with the host therein.

Very sad; but these things happen in numerous parishes. News of such is just kept from most of the parish members for good reason. Naturally there’s a respectful protocol to be followed once such is found and the parish priest is notified.

 

[Publisher]

I am not a lawyer, (and hopefully one will be along to correct any of my misconceptions) but possession is 9/10 of the law. The visitor could certainly allege theft, but I don’t think a court would give much credence to such a claim in light of the circumstances. Assuming the host was quickly consumed, what monetary value would be assigned to the loss? I think the case would be quickly thrown out.

If the person retained possession, but was then hauled away by police, it could get more interesting. I think a court would hold that the host was freely given to the visitor, despite the second thoughts of the usher afterward. A judge would probably find the visitor’s actions reprehensible, but I don’t think the visitor would be required to return the host.

If the visitor were injured, I suspect the usher or perhaps even the parish would be civilly responsible for dental work or whatever else, unless the visitor was a co-instigator of the violence, and such injury could reasonably be forseen.

Those who sought to restrain the person with the host COULD be charged with “kidnapping”.

 

[Leon_Bloy]

Those who sought to restrain the person with the host COULD be charged with “kidnapping”.

Then one would have the privilege and grace of sharing in a kind of martyrdom in order to protect the Blessed Sacrament from desecration.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Then one would have the privilege and grace of sharing in a kind of martyrdom in order to protect the Blessed Sacrament from desecration.

How would one know that a desecration was going to occur?

 

[jonbhorton]

So your ushers determine the worthiness of individuals for reception of the Eucharist and you promote physical violence to them if the usher deems them as unworthy?

Wow, what an obfuscation of the obviously stated.

If we’re "what if"ing, I’ll what if right into the possibility that such a thing would be less possible in a parish which practices a much more codified methodology.

If that “what if” includes the ushers ID’ing some miscreant who wishes to defile our Lord in the Host, then, sure, rough him up if he resists giving back Jesus.

To not do so is to allow grave judgement on that person, is it not?

We aren’t to do this in other sin, why the sin of defiling the Eucharist in a blasphemous act?

I’m not saying pull a muzzie move and kill the guy, just get Jesus back.

In “what if” land, Jesus is still King and I still serve my King. If I see my King being taken hostage, or any other does, I expect them to act.

Anything less is cowardly.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Wow, what an obfuscation of the obviously stated.

If we’re "what if"ing, I’ll what if right into the possibility that such a thing would be less possible in a parish which practices a much more codified methodology.

If that “what if” includes the ushers ID’ing some miscreant who wishes to defile our Lord in the Host, then, sure, rough him up if he resists giving back Jesus.

To not do so is to allow grave judgement on that person, is it not?

We aren’t to do this in other sin, why the sin of defiling the Eucharist in a blasphemous act?

I’m not saying pull a muzzie move and kill the guy, just get Jesus back.

In “what if” land, Jesus is still King and I still serve my King. If I see my King being taken hostage, or any other does, I expect them to act.

Anything less is cowardly.

Violence is not the answer.

An usher would never be able (even with “what if’ing” unless you “what if” actually reading minds and souls) to know such a thing.

It is a very stupid statement that I realize might have been an attempt at humor but violence is not funny in any context.

 

[angierabbit2012]

UPDATE

I don’t know if this will work.
I am NOT very computer savvy, but here is the web address that shows up on youtube if any of you want to have a look.
This is NOT the guy desecrating the Eucharist, this is the guy enticing others to do so!
He calls it the Eucharistic Challenge.

As for the very disturbed young man that burned the Host with a blowtorch, all we can do is pray for this poor man.
The web address is listed below.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

I heartily agree let us pray for that young man and those who desecrate the Eucharist.

 

[jonbhorton]

Violence is not the answer.

An usher would never be able (even with “what if’ing” unless you “what if” actually reading minds and souls) to know such a thing.

It is a very stupid statement that I realize might have been an attempt at humor but violence is not funny in any context.

I am not , nor was I, trying to “be funny”. If I ever sees anything like someone making an attempt to steal a consecrated Host, I’ll approach them. If they insist on compounding the issue, I have no problem taking them down in the context. I would not, however, pull a muslim move and seek them after the fact, nor would I utilize any violence above what the person themselves escalated the issue towards. A simple, “please give that back to the priest if you were planning to steal it for another purpose” turning into “@#&$#&@@& punch * #&@@@@#$^!*(#” would be on the person, not me.

The entire goal is to keep them from bringing further judgement on themselves. Only a person with an immature understanding of the Faith, or outright malice in their heart, would steal a Host.

I’d also body check an old dude to keep him from getting hit by a car, same concept.

Either way, I’m not going to get into a long debate on a “what if”.

Good day to you, Sir.

 

[Leon_Bloy]

How would one know that a desecration was going to occur?

The very act of a lay person not consuming the host, but taking it away, is in itself a grave offense.

But beyond that, for a person to physically struggle to hold onto a host when asked to return it - what good could that person intend?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

The very act of a lay person not consuming the host, but taking it away, is in itself a grave offense.

Not true. Due to bad catechisis some may not think that they should consume the Eucharist immediately. Also the fact that some non-Catholic may come up and not know what they should do.

You would need to be a mind reader to know that they were going to desecrate the Eucharist just because they took a few steps without consuming it.

But beyond that, for a person to physically struggle to hold onto a host when asked to return it - what good could that person intend?

No one has any right to get physical with someone in the first place.

But in the example given the person either received on the tongue or received in the hand and put it in his mouth right away. He then walked away and spit it out into his hand and put it in a plastic baggy. How do you suggest policing this? Must everyone swallow and then open up there mouths to show the usher that it is empty?

 

[Hmgbrd]

Not true. Due to bad catechisis some may not think that they should consume the Eucharist immediately. Also the fact that some non-Catholic may come up and not know what they should do.

You would need to be a mind reader to know that they were going to desecrate the Eucharist just because they took a few steps without consuming it.

No one has any right to get physical with someone in the first place.

But in the example given the person either received on the tongue or received in the hand and put it in his mouth right away. He then walked away and spit it out into his hand and put it in a plastic baggy. How do you suggest policing this? Must everyone swallow and then open up there mouths to show the usher that it is empty?

ByzCath: You have a point that I can understand. This is an older post, but I witnessed something yesterday afternoon at Divine Mercy + Mass that left me very disturbed. This is why I searched for the topic here at CAF today and this thread came up.

I was kneeling in the 3rd row about 4th into the pew. Since I received the Eucharist towards the beginning, I had returned to the pew to pray. As the communion hymn finished I opened my eyes. Because the service was full, there were still people coming forward up the center aisle to receive who had been sitting towards the back of the Church. Father and an EMHC were distributing the Eucharist. I noticed a man who had “received on the tongue” from the EMHC but hadn’t completely closed his lips come round the corner near me. He then quickly removed the Eucharist and concealed it with his hands in his shirt near his waist moving back up the aisle towards the back. I think that I was the only one to see this. I didn’t know what to do. I was not sitting directly on the aisle and am not the type to jump up. There was no ushur in sight. I cannot forget this. I don’t want to think the worst. Maybe there was someone sick that he wanted to give it to later. The thought of someone stealing the Eucharist for whatever reason makes me sick. I have just entered into full communion with the Church this Easter Vigil and am so grateful for the gift of the Eucharist. I felt the temptation to be angry but resisted against it. I just felt really protective.

My question is what can we do to try to prevent this? I am going to keep my eyes open in the future, but what then? This evening is one of the two final RCIA meetings covering our future lives as catholics. I want to mention it to Father, but don’t know how to approach the topic. I don’t want to burden him. This guy got away with what he did. After the fact, it is impossible to change what happened now. But… I believe that I could identify him in the future for sure. Should I tell Father what I saw?

 

[Oneofthewomen]

snipped for space
My question is what can we do to try to prevent this? I am going to keep my eyes open in the future, but what then? This evening is one of the two final RCIA meetings covering our future lives as catholics. I want to mention it to Father, but don’t know how to approach the topic. I don’t want to burden him. This guy got away with what he did. After the fact, it is impossible to change what happened now. But… I believe that I could identify him in the future for sure. Should I tell Father what I saw?

I think that talking to Father, in private, will be your best bet. Explain to him what you saw, ask him for his advice, then forget this. You will have done all you can do, it is now up to the priest how he wants to handle it.
And finally, pray for this man.

 

[Darran]

snipped for space
My question is what can we do to try to prevent this? I am going to keep my eyes open in the future, but what then? This evening is one of the two final RCIA meetings covering our future lives as catholics. I want to mention it to Father, but don’t know how to approach the topic. I don’t want to burden him. This guy got away with what he did. After the fact, it is impossible to change what happened now. But… I believe that I could identify him in the future for sure. Should I tell Father what I saw?

Indeed, tell the priest. Don’t be afraid in future. Anger against sacrilege is far from sinful.

 

[Hmgbrd]

Thank you. I will take him aside in private if he has time tonight or at a time convenient for him. I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut. I will pray for the conversion of this man’s heart.