Design with no designer?

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Think_About_It said:
This is an elaborated version of what you’ve already been doing: inferring a designer by inferring design. You’ve now gone in a complete circle. Do you have anything more convincing?
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Yeah - Revelation - read all about it!

Without Revelation man has a difficult time putting this all together. God must have known this and He Revealed Himself into history. Revelation gives us certainty. WHy do you think the pagans couldn’t figure it out?
 
buffalo said:
I believe the age of information will help change this. In the past isolated communities did not allow the free exchange of information. Generations grew up with information that they were “certain” of. Today, anyone who desires can learn the truth. Look at these forums for example. People are learning, learning the truth. It wil take some time, but the mechanism now exists.
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A Hindu could say the same thing…

’ People are learning, learning the truth. It will take some time, but the mechanism now exists…for people to become Hindus.’

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buffalo said:
Yeah - Revelation - read all about it!

Without Revelation man has a difficult time putting this all together. God must have known this and He Revealed Himself into history. Revelation gives us certainty. WHy do you think the pagans couldn’t figure it out?
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Now we’re getting into Catholic terrain (a desert for unwatered, undernourished suppositions ;)). Now tell me why I should believe your revelation in general, then tell me why I should believe it over someone elses.
 
Think_About_It said:
No, DNA was part of the circularity.
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Roughly 63% of the world are theists. 54% believe in the God of Abraham. This is because of Revelation. Add in the Hindus who believe in millions of gods and you get to around 77%.

So am I going to invoke an argument of popularity? Not really. One has to look at the historical basis of knowledge of God.

There is plenty of evidence for God and plenty more experiential evidence.

But moving on - DNA is pointing us to a designer. We can leave it there in the emprirical world. However, I have luxury you do not. I can move to the next step, a step you cannot stomach, and connect the dots.

Yes - I can say it - DNA infers God. But i do not need it to believe. It is ust really cool how it all aligns.
 
Zatzat said:
A Hindu could say the same thing…

’ People are learning, learning the truth. It will take some time, but the mechanism now exists…for people to become Hindus.’

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Yeah they could. But they believe in millions of gods. Who is the top one with the ability to breath the language of DNA? I think they have a tough row to hoe.
 
Think_About_It said:
Now we’re getting into Catholic terrain (a desert for unwatered, undernourished suppositions ;)). Now tell me why I should believe your revelation in general, then tell me why I should believe it over someone elses.
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St Paul tells us to check everything. SO go ahead. Test it all. But you cannot learn by hanging around atheist sites. You have to jump into the Hindu, or Buddhist or Catholic world. Take some test spins. Don’t be afraid. What do you have to lose?

If you were to take this invesitgative leap (separate yourself from the atheist propoganda) you must do this with an open mind and heart. In the end one doesn’t find faith through intellectual pursuit. But it is a start.
 
buffalo said:
Roughly 63% of the world are theists. 54% believe in the God of Abraham. This is because of Revelation. Add in the Hindus who believe in millions of gods and you get to around 77%.

So am I going to invoke an argument of popularity? Not really.
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Looks like you just did :rolleyes:
One has to look at the historical basis of knowledge of God.
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There is plenty of evidence for God and plenty more experiential evidence.
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Wouldn’t mind hearing some of that experimental stuff, just for a laugh.
But moving on - DNA is pointing us to a designer.
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Yes, you keep saying that.
We can leave it there in the emprirical world. However, I have luxury you do not. I can move to the next step, a step you cannot stomach, and connect the dots.
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I can stomach a game of connect the dots when the dots are there. Otherwise, you’re just drawing your own picture.
Yes - I can say it - DNA infers God.
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The more you say it, the truer it becomes!
But i do not need it to believe. It is ust really cool how it all aligns.
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It certainly would be if we could get past the matter of fact and onto the thing with which it allegedly aligns. That’s not something you’re willing to venture into though, I’ve discovered.
 
buffalo said:
If you were to take this invesitgative leap (separate yourself from the atheist propoganda) you must do this with an open mind and heart. In the end one doesn’t find faith through intellectual pursuit. But it is a start.
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I second this. All too often I see atheists ‘trying’ to investigate religion. In reality they go in with an open mind but it does not take long for them to become surly and bitter and give up on religion. If you “fight the good fight” (again, St. Paul though not this context exactly) you will know the truth “and the truth shall make you free” (Jesus; John 8:32).

Have an open mind, please.
 
Think_About_It said:
It certainly would be if we could get past the matter of fact and onto the thing with which it allegedly aligns. That’s not something you’re willing to venture into though, I’ve discovered.
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Experiential not experimental.

Look at the picture you guys draw - deny the dots exist.

We don’t have to start at the beginning do we? Does design exist? Yes or No. Can we detect it?
 
buffalo said:
Yeah they could. But they believe in millions of gods. Who is the top one with the ability to breath the language of DNA? I think they have a tough row to hoe.
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Brahman, the supreme God.

Brahman is just as likely to have breathed the language of DNA, as the Abrahamic God.

Once again, I’m taken aback my your unwillingness or inability to see that a Hindu would say the very same thing about your God, as your saying about Hindu Gods.
 
buffalo said:
Experiential not experimental.
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Haha my mistake. That’s even less convincing.
Look at the picture you guys draw - deny the dots exist.
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No sense in denying dots; not a game I would ever play.
We don’t have to start at the beginning do we? Does design exist? Yes or No. Can we detect it?
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You’re done, son. You had your chance and you squandered it on the most elementary appeals! Good day, sir.
 
Zatzat said:
Brahman, the supreme God.

Brahman is just as likely to have breathed the language of DNA, as the Abrahamic God.

Once again, I’m taken aback my your unwillingness or inability to see that a Hindu would say the very same thing about your God, as your saying about Hindu Gods.
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No - I understand the issue clearly. I have no doubt of the strength of their beliefs as I do of yours.

Actually, except for attributes Brahman is known as the supreme God as you state. Kinda the same idea. The Supreme Being and all.

So many more people acknowledge a Supreme Being.
 
Think_About_It said:
Haha my mistake. That’s even less convincing.

No sense in denying dots; not a game I would ever play.

You’re done, son. You had your chance and you squandered it on the most elementary appeals! Good day, sir.
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Bye Bye…
 
Zatzat said:
Argumentum ad populum = fail.
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Why? Why do they believe. What is their basis? Is science necessary? Even desirable for belief?

The terrain of belief is so much more beautiful and rich.

Can a person desire what they do not know?
 
I just read some of the posts…sigh. There’s no need to posit a designer for how natural things (teleology) came into being. Science is covering our gaps in knowledge regarding to how the universe works.
Give it up, the use of teleology as a means to prove god became a dying art since the days of William of Ockham.
 
The_Scotist said:
I just read some of the posts…sigh. There’s no need to posit a designer for how natural things came into being. Science is covering our gaps in knowledge regarding to how the universe works.
Give it up, the use of teleology as a means to prove god became a dying art since the days of William of Ockham.
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If science could close all the gaps would that be AKA God?

But, really - have you any clue how everyday our knowledge gap is increasing? The more we search the more we find we do not know.
 
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