Desire for Death?

[AlanFromWichita]

So, I tell you, forget your will, think on what Christ wishes from you, which orders He has got to give to you, which missions (like in the police thrillers !!!) does He have for you.
Slowly, you will learn on being happy following Jesus.

emmaberry, our happiness if to follow Jesus not to do our will. Whoever follows Her own wills reaches nowhere. Whoever follows Christ’s orders reaches happiness.

Not to mention that when this happiness starts to kick in, suddenly you won’t even recognize your own will because a) it keeps adjusting itself to become better aligned with God’s, and b) it will no longer feel like a driving force like when we were still searching. Instead, you will learn to allow the Holy Spirit to do the driving, which only happens when the will is gone or disabled at first, before it is renewed. Then you won’t even want to do anything that you’re not compelled to do, because now by your very nature (your true self, not your false/worldly self) you are henceforth compelled to follow the guidance of the Spirit without having to understand it first.

Alan

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Do any of you share this desire? How do you cope in day to day life? How do you deal with people giving you strange looks and such?
Thank you.

In my (very limited and maybe faulty) experience, what you’re describing goes along with being really close to God. Lately I’ve started to re-gain a fear of death and I’m afraid to say that probably means I’ve been backsliding into lukewarmness Be thankful for this grace you have!

 

[Pitcharan]

Thought I would post this excerpt from St. Gemma Galgani on her desire for eternal life:
St Gemma’s desire and longing for heaven

In “The Life of Saint Gemma Galgani” Venerable Father Germanus writes- …”her [Gemma’s] only wish was to love God. ‘I wish to be all for Jesus and only for Jesus.’ she used to say. And again she would say:
‘What is there to love on this earth now that I posses Jesus? Oh world and creatures, all of you are no longer for me…’

“Once, when giving me an account of her progress, she wrote thus:
‘Yesterday morning, in a meeting that I had with my loving God, I asked Him to detach me from everything, to free me from my body, and having thus broken every bond, to let me go straight to Him, to Him only and forever.’
‘But’, Jesus answered me, ‘where would you fly to?’
‘To You my dear and sweet Lord!’
And Jesus replied: ‘Let Me come to you a little longer, and then, when I set you free, you shall come to Me.’

Concerning her last illness, Father Germanus writes "Before losing her eyesight, she used to read occasionally. Once her Aunt, seeing a book in her hand asked her ‘What are you reading Gemma?’
Gemma replied ‘I am reading the preparation for death. Oh Aunt, why don’t you read it also, for you are getting old? As for myself in all things I am preparing for death.’
“But tell me Gemma”, continued her Aunt, “do you not regret to die?”
‘Oh no,’ she answered, ‘I no longer have any attachment to anything in this world.’

Father Germanus continues “Thus, life had become a weight and a pain to this dove. As she kept he heart turned towards heaven, she felt like a stranger who does not know anyone, and takes no interest in earthly things. Lets let her again speak for herself-
‘I live on this earth but I seem to dwell here like a soul who has lost it’s way, because never for a moment do I cease looking towards Jesus, apart from whom I despise all things.’
Thus wearied and unsatisfied, she counted the days like a pilgrim who longing to reach the desired land, from time to time, briefly looks back to see the distance done, and count the way remaining-
‘I greatly rejoice that time flies so quickly, because that means so much less time to spend in this world, where there is nothing to attract me. My heart goes incessantly in search of a treasure, an immense treasure that I do not find in creatures; a treasure that will satisfy me and console me, and give me rest.’

Likewise in ecstasy she was once overheard to say- ‘Oh, who will give me wings that I may fly to Thee, my God? Give them to me…the wings of contemplation. How am I to fly to Thee? Break…break these chains that hinder me from flying to Thee…" and another occasion "I have such a great longing to fly away to my God!’

“Since earthly life was such a small concern to Gemma, it is no wonder that she was always so ready to give it away, as happens with valueless things. If anyone fell dangerously sick, you would see Gemma running to her spiritual director [Fr. Germanus, the author of these lines –editor] requesting to give that person one, two, three or four years of her life, saying to him-
‘You know Jesus will accept the exchange, provided that you Father approve of it.’
And, in order to get my consent, she used to bring forward certain arguments of her own, putting them with such persuasiveness that if I was not on my guard, I was in great danger of giving way”
‘Look Father’, she used to say, ‘it concerns the mother of a family with many children. Oh, what would these little one’s do without their mother?’ Let me tell Jesus about it. What difference can a few years less make to me?’

The same thing used to happen when she had the conversion of any sinner at heart, and she was always sure to have some in hand. She would say-
‘Jesus, I give you three years of my life. Convert him for me.’
That was the way she had of putting it. At last I allowed myself to be persuaded by her charitable and forceful eloquence. I gave the permission, and God accepted the exchange, and Gemma died exactly at the time agreed upon, in the richest bloom of her youth, and contrary to all human expectations."

From THE IMITATION OF CHRIST by Thomas Kempis, Book III chapter 20

Alas! What sort of life is this, from which troubles and miseries are never absent, where all things are full of snares and enemies? For when one trouble or temptation leaves, another comes. Indeed, even while the first conflict is still raging, many others begin unexpectedly. How is it possible to love a life that has such great bitterness, that is subject to so many calamities and miseries? Indeed, how can it even be called life when it begets so many deaths and plagues? And yet, it is loved, and many seek their delight in it.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

From THE IMITATION OF CHRIST by Thomas Kempis, Book III chapter 20

Alas! What sort of life is this, from which troubles and miseries are never absent, where all things are full of snares and enemies? For when one trouble or temptation leaves, another comes. Indeed, even while the first conflict is still raging, many others begin unexpectedly. How is it possible to love a life that has such great bitterness, that is subject to so many calamities and miseries? Indeed, how can it even be called life when it begets so many deaths and plagues? And yet, it is loved, and many seek their delight in it.

I don’t think our lives would really have much meaning if they were all about being safely comfortable and entertained, and about accomplishing worldly goals.

Alan

 

[Pitcharan]

I don’t think our lives would really have much meaning if they were all about being safely comfortable and entertained, and about accomplishing worldly goals.

Alan

From THE IMITATION OF CHRIST by Thomas Kempis, Book II chapter 3

*It is no great thing to associate with the good and gentle, for such association is naturally pleasing. Everyone enjoys a peaceful life and prefers persons of congenial habits. But to be able to live at peace with harsh and perverse men, or with the undisciplined and those who irritate us, is a great grace, a praiseworthy and manly thing.

Now, all our peace in this miserable life is found in humbly enduring suffering rather than in being free from it. He who knows best how to suffer will enjoy the greater peace, because he is the conqueror of himself, the master of the world, a friend of Christ, and an heir of heaven.*

 

[emmaberry]

From THE IMITATION OF CHRIST by Thomas Kempis, Book II chapter 3

*It is no great thing to associate with the good and gentle, for such association is naturally pleasing. Everyone enjoys a peaceful life and prefers persons of congenial habits. But to be able to live at peace with harsh and perverse men, or with the undisciplined and those who irritate us, is a great grace, a praiseworthy and manly thing.

Now, all our peace in this miserable life is found in humbly enduring suffering rather than in being free from it. He who knows best how to suffer will enjoy the greater peace, because he is the conqueror of himself, the master of the world, a friend of Christ, and an heir of heaven.*

From THE IMITATION OF CHRIST by Thomas Kempis, Book III chapter 20

Alas! What sort of life is this, from which troubles and miseries are never absent, where all things are full of snares and enemies? For when one trouble or temptation leaves, another comes. Indeed, even while the first conflict is still raging, many others begin unexpectedly. How is it possible to love a life that has such great bitterness, that is subject to so many calamities and miseries? Indeed, how can it even be called life when it begets so many deaths and plagues? And yet, it is loved, and many seek their delight in it.

I cannot even explain how much I love you for quoting from The Imitation of Christ…this thread actually arose from me diving into The Imitation headfirst and coming out with Christ colored goggles on.

 

[emmaberry]

I’m with you. And when I say “see” I mean in any sense “see” can mean literally or figuratively.

Have you ever heard of the Dark Night of the Soul, by St. John of the Cross?

It explains the Stanzas of the Soul which depict the journey of a soul which dares to travel to find its lover, the soul preferring to travel under cover of darkness because when it leaves its house it knows everything there is safe and secure, and thereby is able to free itself of its worldly concerns and let itself be drawn by the call of the lover. I’m highly paraphrasing this, btw, so if it isn’t what others see in it I’d like to hear other takes on it.

Eventually the soul finds its lover, and relaxes truly and profoundly.

Have you ever heard of contemplative prayer? If not you’re in for a huge treat, as the Catechism tells us that this type of prayer, being the most deep and profound among the three forms vocal, meditative, and contemplative, achieves true union with Christ and allows us to share in His mystery. (see CCC 2700-2724) Another term for Contemplative Prayer is “resting in God.” If I hadn’t found out about contemplative prayer, I would still be psychotic.

Anyway, here are the Stanzas of the Soul, from the Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross:

One dark night,
fired with love’s urgent longings
—ah, the sheer grace!—
I went out unseen,
my house being now all stilled.

In darkness, and secure,
by the secret ladder, disguised,
—ah, the sheer grace!—
in darkness and concealment,
my house being now all stilled.

On that glad night,
in secret, for no one saw me,
nor did I look at anything,
with no other light or guide
than the one that burned in my heart.

This guided me
more surely than the light of noon
to where he was awaiting me
—him I knew so well—
there in a place where no one appeared.

O guiding night!
O night more lovely than the dawn!
O night that has united
the Lover with his beloved,
transforming the beloved in her Lover.

Upon my flowering breast
which I kept wholly for him alone,
there he lay sleeping,
and I caressing him
there in a breeze from the fanning cedars.

When the breeze blew from the turret,
as I parted his hair,
it wounded my neck
with its gentle hand,
suspending all my senses.

I abandoned and forgot myself,
laying my face on my Beloved;
all things ceased; I went out from myself,
leaving my cares
forgotten among the lilies.

Peace and joy,
Alan

I have found contemplative prayer in adoration and thank goodness! Too many thoughts n this head! I have Dark Night on my READ NOW list. Thanks for the stanza-beautiful.

So, a good male company and a cup of red wine (A CUP, I did not say drinking which is another thing!).

You want to be in Heaven with Jesus but it is not you who give orders !
You do not say: “I want the airplane to take off at 13:13, or that the train arrives at 18:18 or that the sun sets at 20:20”. You do not give orders to airplanes, trains or the sun.
You do not give orders to Jesus.
He is your Boss not the inverse.
Jesus said: “My happiness is to do the will of the Father”.
So, I tell you, forget your will, think on what Christ wishes from you, which orders He has got to give to you, which missions (like in the police thrillers !!!) does He have for you.
Slowly, you will learn on being happy following Jesus.

emmaberry, our happiness if to follow Jesus not to do our will. Whoever follows Her own wills reaches nowhere. Whoever follows Christ’s orders reaches happiness.

You seem to be a smart girl, you will learn fast…

^hahahaha aaand hopefully I will be a nun.
Thanks for the advice! I am trying to echo St. Therese when she says that her only fear is to NOT do God’s will.

In my (very limited and maybe faulty) experience, what you’re describing goes along with being really close to God. Lately I’ve started to re-gain a fear of death and I’m afraid to say that probably means I’ve been backsliding into lukewarmness Be thankful for this grace you have!

Stay strong! I’d love to tell you that the lessening desire does not equal lukewarmness…but I know for me when I forget Jesus I start to worry and fear death and dying again…or at least dread it and hope it is far off.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

*It is no great thing to associate with the good and gentle, for such association is naturally pleasing. Everyone enjoys a peaceful life and prefers persons of congenial habits. But to be able to live at peace with harsh and perverse men, or with the undisciplined and those who irritate us, is a great grace, a praiseworthy and manly thing. *

This is actually one of the reasons I started posting on this forum again this spring or whenever it was. I came here with a concerted effort to learn to post among others whom I may find unreasonable, while not letting it get to me, and as a stretch goal to learn to actually make my point among such.

I find it interesting that some of us want to talk about how we can be better Catholics, but when presented with a perfect opportunities – annoying posters – they would rather either fight them, get them banned, or ignore them. I’d rather shower them with love, gain their trust and respect by hearing their case, find commonality, and maybe even wash each other’s feet. Annoying posters are like quizzes to see if we pass or fail our lessons. I guess we just like to have lecture and debate, and then just say we’re holy, rather than actually testing ourselves and becoming so. These posters are our greatest potential asset, unless we just want to preach to the choir. They help us, we help them. They are far from parasites; they give our religion meaning. This is so painfully obvious it hurts to say it, but apparently there are many who just don’t see it yet.

Alan

 

[emmaberry]

This is actually one of the reasons I started posting on this forum again this spring or whenever it was. I came here with a concerted effort to learn to post among others whom I may find unreasonable, while not letting it get to me, and as a stretch goal to learn to actually make my point among such.

I find it interesting that some of us want to talk about how we can be better Catholics, but when presented with a perfect opportunities – annoying posters – they would rather either fight them, get them banned, or ignore them. I’d rather shower them with love, gain their trust and respect by hearing their case, find commonality, and maybe even wash each other’s feet. Annoying posters are like quizzes to see if we pass or fail our lessons. I guess we just like to have lecture and debate, and then just say we’re holy, rather than actually testing ourselves and becoming so. These posters are our greatest potential asset, unless we just want to preach to the choir. They help us, we help them. They are far from parasites; they give our religion meaning. This is so painfully obvious it hurts to say it, but apparently there are many who just don’t see it yet.

Alan

What a great post! I know I will be going back to college in a few days and there is this one girl who really annoys me…it is so hard to be kind to those people, but that’s the Gospel. St. Therese took it a step further when she was especially kind to the nun who annoyed her…not only did she tolerate it without snapping, but she showered that nun with more love than the ones she was naturally disposed to like. It is such a hard thing to do, and I admire you for coming back to the forum in order to live that out even more. The annoying posters are such a good place to start living out the Gospel, since the internet is filled with so many vicious people…If all of us Christians loved each other as Christ loves us, the world would be so much of a better place! That is one thing I learned from reading The Imitation…too many of us are so content with ourselves because we say the rosary, go to Mass, read Christian books, etc. We don’t want to be humble and realize that Christianity, and especially Catholicism, is not a compartment of our life that we can check off our to-do list. Jesus calls us to transform our lives into the Gospel completely and totally-that includes loving our neighbor AKA the annoying people who gives us no reason to be kind to them except the fact that Christ told us to!

Sorry, I know that you probably know all this already…it just astounds me that so many of us don’t see this or attempt to live it out, including me. Just trying to work my way through it.

 

[hazcompat]

Matthew 6:21 For wherever your treasure is, there will your heart be too.

catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=47

peace

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Sorry, I know that you probably know all this already…it just astounds me that so many of us don’t see this or attempt to live it out, including me. Just trying to work my way through it.

http://bestsmileys.com/party/5.gif

I seldom hear so much truth in such a short post. I’m honored to have read it.

:tiphat:

Peace, joy, etc.
Alan

 

[emmaberry]

Matthew 6:21 For wherever your treasure is, there will your heart be too.

catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=47

peace

Are you saying if God is the center of your life then the desire for eternal life is natural? If your treasure lies with Jesus and not material/earthly things, then your heart will be set on eternal life?

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Are you saying if God is the center of your life then the desire for eternal life is natural? If your treasure lies with Jesus and not material/earthly things, then your heart will be set on eternal life?

Yes, the desire is natural because God is the center (and everything else too for that matter) of our lives so wherever we envision encountering God is going to be a draw for us – and most of us are taught that after we die we will become more intimate with God. Actually, it is our ego that has to die, but unfortunately most of us go to our graves with some ego left, so if there are any pins standing, they will be collected and brought with us into purgatory.

Personally I am not that patient to wait until after I die to meet God, so I went ahead and got my purgatory pretty much out of the way. Father Carr triggered the collapse 10 years ago which turned my life and that of my family upside down, and now I’m through with the scary phase of purgatory and experiencing untold peace.

What the enemy wants us to believe, though, is that our time here on earth is not actually part of the eternity itself. Satan wants us to keep trying to become like God, because he knows we never will succeed as long as we’re trying. That’s why Adam and the rest of us have to die. Because inevitably once Adam ate from the tree, we all were born with a propensity toward intelligence. When we learn the dualistic thinking (thoughts of separation) we are taught as children, we enable that intelligence to take over where the spirit had been guiding us (before age 7) and once that happens it is permanent as long as the actual body lives. So the flesh has to die so that the soul can be cleansed of our sins that we cannot commit, by definition, without intelligence. That’s why it’s so exciting to know that we can get rid of our egos for all intents and purposes by allowing God to do it, and He will be pleased to do it under the right conditions.

Personally I’m pretty sure I’d have agreed with Adam. My flesh isn’t interested in bumming around all day playing harps and skipping past bushes and bunnies, through the clouds. It craves human drama. Adam, as our terminal point in our connection to non-existence, made the decision we were going for the drama. I’m glad he did, because I wouldn’t change a thing God has done, to get me to this point here and now. Plus, if Adam hadn’t made a mess, I couldn’t have used my life to help God clean it up. He like parties and drama, but they do get messy.

We are living out our eternity right now, right where we are. Now is forever, as far as we can ever sense. How do I know? Because “now” is all we can directly sense with our flesh – the past is captured by memory and the state of the universe, and the future is all in our imaginations. So no matter what time it is, over all eternity, every time is represented by “now.”

So all you have to do is live in the here and now, and you are automatically connected to the rest of your eternal life … no need to spend this whole lifetime trying to seek it out. You are already there; in the past and future, that is. God knows, and God is within us; therefore we are connected now, period.

Now, the flesh is more fickle than the spirit. The spirit is life, while the flesh will suffer and die. So if you can convince your flesh to trust in your spirit sufficiently, then your flesh can drop its shields, and let the spirit navigate.

Alan

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

I have found contemplative prayer in adoration and thank goodness! Too many thoughts n this head! I have Dark Night on my READ NOW list. Thanks for the stanza-beautiful.

^hahahaha aaand hopefully I will be a nun.
Thanks for the advice! I am trying to echo St. Therese when she says that her only fear is to NOT do God’s will.

Stay strong! I’d love to tell you that the lessening desire does not equal lukewarmness…but I know for me when I forget Jesus I start to worry and fear death and dying again…or at least dread it and hope it is far off.

Did you know that either St. Theresa of Jesus’ mother or father ( I do not know) wanted to go into a religious order but God did not want to so he or she married and had St. Theresa…and others…

 

[hazcompat]

Are you saying if God is the center of your life then the desire for eternal life is natural? If your treasure lies with Jesus and not material/earthly things, then your heart will be set on eternal life?

yes

“Our Hearts are Restless Until They Rest in You”
From the Confessions
Saint Augustine of Hippo

Great are you, O Lord, and exceedingly worthy of praise; your power is immense, and your wisdom beyond reckoning. And so we men, who are a due part of your creation, long to praise you – we also carry our mortality about with us, carry the evidence of our sin and with it the proof that you thwart the proud. You arouse us so that praising you may bring us joy, because you have made us and drawn us to yourself, and our heart is unquiet until it rests in you.

piercedhearts.org/theology_heart/teaching_saints/hearts_restless_st_augustine.htm

peace

 

[emmaberry]

Did you know that either St. Theresa of Jesus’ mother or father ( I do not know) wanted to go into a religious order but God did not want to so he or she married and had St. Theresa…and others…

Yes! The Martins-haha I laughed in Story of A Soul when they wanted to have a Josephite marriage and the priest was like, “Have kids.”

I actually did not want to be a nun, but God told me to. Currently discerning between the Carthusians (specifically Monastic Sisters of Bethlehem under St. Bruno) and the Carmelites.

EDIT: The Martins are something-an idea-I struggle with often. Zelie and Louis must have wanted SO bad to be religious-but God said no. I am sure they would have done so much good as religious, but look at the fruit of their openness to God! 5 nuns from their marriage! It makes me ask God, “I know I would make you happy as a religious…but if I was married would have a LOT of children!” (good ole big Catholic family…) “I would offer up all my kids to you as religious if you wanted…They could all do so much more good for You than just little me!!!”

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Yes! The Martins-haha I laughed in Story of A Soul when they wanted to have a Josephite marriage and the priest was like, “Have kids.”

I actually did not want to be a nun, but God told me to. Currently discerning between the Carthusians (specifically Monastic Sisters of Bethlehem under St. Bruno) and the Carmelites.

EDIT: The Martins are something-an idea-I struggle with often. Zelie and Louis must have wanted SO bad to be religious-but God said no. I am sure they would have done so much good as religious, but look at the fruit of their openness to God! 5 nuns from their marriage! It makes me ask God, “I know I would make you happy as a religious…but if I was married would have a LOT of children!” (good ole big Catholic family…) “I would offer up all my kids to you as religious if you wanted…They could all do so much more good for You than just little me!!!”

I did not want to be your child !!!
And if I did not throw myself into the prison of convent life ???

 

[emmaberry]

I did not want to be your child !!!
And if I did not throw myself into the prison of convent life ???

I never said I would force them! Just offer them up for whatever God has planned for them. Too many Catholics go on and on about the vocations crisis it they would discourage their children from becoming religious-that’s a problem. I hardly think convent life is a prison but then again that is my vocation so it would naturally appeal more to me I guess.

I am sure if I had 13 children and raised them to be open to God’s call that a couple wold be religious. But God works in mysterious ways…(anybody feeling some U2??) lol!