DESPERATE HELP - holy days of obligation

[slanzill]

1ke Are you saying that if one goes to mass regularly, goes to confession regularly, has a deep prayer life, reads scripture daily, is involved in many church ministries, is very charitable to the church, watches a lot of Catholic television, reads a lot of Catholic books, etc…but they do not embrace ONE thing…going to church on January 1st that they are not devout?

 

[1ke]

1ke Are you saying that if one goes to mass regularly, goes to confession regularly, has a deep prayer life, reads scripture daily, is involved in many church ministries, is very charitable to the church, watches a lot of Catholic television, reads a lot of Catholic books, etc…but they do not embrace ONE thing…going to church on January 1st that they are not devout?

I’m saying that your scenario is nonsense.

People who do what you described have no reason to “just not go” to mass on holy days of obligation. Even if they don’t “embrace” it, they will “do it” because the Church asks it.

Devout people don’t usually say, “I will not serve”.

I will also add that “doing” a lot of things does not equal devout. It’s what is in the heart. And if running around doing a bunch of stuff but rejecting Church authority— that person needs to examine their heart.

 

[TheresaFinigan]

@slanzill The Feast Days of Mary are also the feast days of Her Divine Son! So when we honor the Blessed Mother of God, we honor Our Lord Jesus Christ. Mary’s feast day is Jesus’ feast day!

“Let us not imagine that we obscure the glory of the Son by the great praise we lavish on the Mother; for the more she is honored, the greater is the glory of her Son. There can be no doubt that whatever we say in praise of the Mother gives equal praise to the Son.” (Saint Bernard of Clairvaux, Father and Doctor of the Church).

“Mary having co-operated in our redemption with so much glory to God and so much love for us, Our Lord ordained that no one shall obtain salvation except through her intercession.” (St. Alphonse Liguori).

”Let not that man presumed to look for mercy from God who offends His Holy Mother!" (St. Louis de Montfort).

 

[Tis_Bearself]

A “good Catholic” does not willfully disobey the precepts of the Church (and in so doing, commit sin).

A “good Catholic” will follow the precepts of the Church - the absolute bare minimum requirements set forth by the Church for its members - and go to Mass on the day the Church says to go, unless there is some good reason like illness or severe weather or complete lack of transport etc preventing it.

A “good Catholic” who is troubled about the Church making some day a holy day of obligation will seek counsel from his spiritual advisor or priest, make an honest effort to understand the teaching and the requirement, and either end up understanding (which ends the problem ) or just accept that he doesn’t quite “get it” and be obedient to the Church precept anyway, perhaps praying to the Holy Spirit for greater understanding.

A “good Catholic” doesn’t rebel by skipping the Mass and then refusing to confess it and being angry at the Church about it. It’s like 1ke said, your scenario makes no sense.

It seems like you want a free pass for not accepting an obligation you personally don’t understand or like. The Church does not give such “free passes”. Or else you want us to agree with you that Marian feast days being obligatory Mass days is somehow improper. A “good Catholic” is not going to agree with that either, sorry again.

 

[Mi_Rose]

You accept things the Church says you have to do whether you like them or not. You pray and study until your beliefs are iin line with those of the Church. That is what the Church calls every one to do.

 

[Gorgias]

Here’s my issue…this means that the church is telling me that if I do not feel like going to mass for no good reason on “Mary’s Feast Day” Jan. 1st. that I am going to hell. How on earth can they say “Mary’s Feast Day” or any other “Mary day” of holy obligation is an obligation.

Don’t get me wrong…I have absolutely no problems with the Blessed Mother.

Actually, it’s the feast of Mary as Mother of God. We’re celebrating Jesus through Mary. You don’t have a problem going to Mass to celebrate Jesus through Mary, do you?

Same goes for All Saints Day. I love the Saints and I pray to them all the time, however to tell me that I am obligated to go to mass on those days or else I am in the state of Mortal Sin just makes me crazy.

All Saints day celebrates the fact that Jesus’ promise of eternal life in heaven is not only true, but in effect. You don’t have a problem celebrating that Jesus keeps His word, do you?

Can someone shed some light on this for me and help me to understand how this makes sense…OR can someone give me their views on this situation? Any help would be appreciated.

I’m wondering why being instructed by the Church – who has authority given them by Jesus Himself – to attend a couple extra Masses is “driving you crazy”?

I don’t believe the church should be obligating people to go on those days. It would be nice if people DID go, but it should not be an obligation to get to heaven. I don’t understand this at all.

Does the Church have the right to place an obligation to attend Mass on Sunday? If so, then why not on other days?

According to this “rule” about attending mass on Mary’s feast day it is saying a person can be very devout, attend mass every Sunday, have a deep prayer life, pray the rosary regularly, be very involved in church ministries, goes to confession regularly, is very charitable, etc…but if they don’t feel like going to mass on January 1st they will go to hell??? That’s outrageous to me. How can the church teach that???

It’s kinda outrageous to think that such a person wouldn’t want to attend Mass on a holy day of obligation!

 

[TheLittleLady]

Imagine your father is a wealthy man, the wealthiest man in the world.

You are his child, you are an adult and you are going off to University. Your father dies and in the will, he leaves you the bulk of his vast wealth, more money than you could ever even spend in a lifetime.

In that will, he leaves conditions. You must visit your mother on her birthday and on Mother’s day each year, unless you are sick or have to work or the weather/distance makes such a visit impossible. You must attend the Family Reunion every year, again, unless there are reasons of illness, weather, etc. You have to attend a certain foundation board meeting each week, same stipulations.

Should you decide to miss your mom’s birthday, the family reunion, a board meeting, just because you did not feel like it, your father’s will provides that you simply to go the board and express your sorrow.

Should you refuse to attend the days of obligation and refuse to express your sorrow in person to the board, you will forfeit all of the estate and be left penniless, destitute.

Your father left these conditions because He knows how important family and participation in the foundation is, that it is vital to keep those connections and given to your own devices you’d let these relationships simply wither.

Eternal life in Heaven is far more than any earthly estate. Jesus said “my yoke is easy, my burden is light”, this means that there are some things that are burdensome like getting up for Mass on Jan 1 when you have partied the evening before or going to Mass on Sunday when you’d rather watch the game.

With great reward does come some obligation on our part.

 

[slanzill]

As outrageous as it may sound to be a devout Catholic and not feel one should be obligated to attend mass on January 1st…it does happen. A person can be very devout in their heart and follow every rule that the church places before them, but heaven forbid they question something that they do not understand and ask for clarity and all of a sudden they are no longer a “good catholic”? Really? I am not looking for a “free pass” as one stated. I am questioning something that doesn’t make sense to me and asking for clarity. I will tell you know, I am VERY DEVOUT. I am catholic through and through. I participate in all the sacraments, I pray the rosary, and novenas, and chaplets, I read my bible, and I study study study the teaching of the Catholic Church. For anyone to tell me that it’s “nonsense” that I would question as to why January 1st should be an “obligation” is absurd. It’s a totally legitimate question.
To just believe something just because some tells you to do it is a very slippery slope. Don’t be deceived. That’s what protestants do…they believe everything they are told in the walls of their churches and don’t ask any questions. If they all did their homework and actually took the time to search for the truth, then most of them would probably become Catholic, because that is the true church created by Jesus himself. But no…they don’t search the truth, they don’t ask questions and they live their lives separate from the holy Eucharist and His church.

Too many wander around like robots just believe what they are told to believe and not asking any questions. This is why the church is in the mess that it is today and are losing members in droves. They come to our church…they don’t understand things…they don’t ask questions…and they leave. If we cannot get answers to why do the things we do and why we believe the things we do, then unfortunately the numbers will continue to decline.

I will NEVER turn my back on His church. Catholic through and through.

 

[Peeps]

We are “obligated” to do many things as Christians/Catholics–help the poor, clothe the naked, feed the starving, visit the sick and prisoners, take care of the dead…

“Obligation Masses” are SIMPLE works compared to these difficult tasks. I believe that an “obligation Mass” is a way of “training” us to at least make a start to fulfill the tasks I listed above (and many others, e.g., going into all the world and preaching the Gospel to all peoples, suffering persecution, taking on the evils of our society, etc.).

When we have a child, we do not start the child out with washing dishes or mowing the lawn when they are 2 years old to train them about the value and satisfaction (and necessity!) of work.

We start them out with simple tasks–putting their toys in their toy basket, or perhaps putting their own sippy cup into their own cupboard, or picking up a small stick that fell out of a tree.

As the child masters these childish tasks, we entrust them with more difficult tasks, and eventually, they are able to take responsibility for adult tasks and adult life. They are “mature.”

I realize that I am describing a scenario of child-rearing that seems to be going the way of flip phones and VCRs! Nowadays, we are seeing an epidemic of adults who are still essentially children because their parents have never allowed them to experience disappointment, failure, hard work, unpleasantness, etc. It’s not good for society!

And in the same way, when Christians do not take up Christ’s “gentle burden and light yolk;” e.g. attending an “obligation Mass” when they can, they will be unable to take up the weightier work of the Kingdom of God.

Yes, they will be in heaven, but as the old hymn says, “Will there be any stars in my crown?”–the answer will be no, you didn’t do the work and therefore you have nothing to give back to the Master except yourself.

 

[1ke]

but heaven forbid they question something that they do not understand and ask for clarity and all of a sudden they are no longer a “good catholic”?

No one said that.

Certainly we may question or not understand something. We still assent to it. These are different things.

You are now trying to change your argument. That won’t work here.

 

[1ke]

For anyone to tell me that it’s “nonsense” that I would question as to why January 1st should be an “obligation” is absurd. It’s a totally legitimate question.

And again, no one stated you were wrong for questioning.

The scenario is nonsense— a devout Catholic who refuses to assent to the teachings of the Church.

And we gave you the reason the Church establishes holy days. That you dislike our answer or don’t agree with it doesn’t change it.

 

[slanzill]

TheLittleLady I appreciate your response and I have to say that is the BEST answer/analogy I’ve heard in the years that I’ve been struggling this this issue. Your response brings me comfort.

I do want to ask…when you refer to My father giving stipulations for the inheritance…is “My Father” supposed to be the inference of God in your story? If it is, can you direct me to how the assumption is made the God has instructed us that we must visit His mother in order to have salvation?

I would greatly appreciate your response. Your story seems to be shedding some light on my questions.

 

[1ke]

If it is, can you direct me to how the assumption is made the God has instructed us that we must visit His mother in order to have salvation?

You seem to not understand the authority of the Church in binding and loosing. Start there. Christ gave the keys to Peter and gave binding and loosing to all the Bishops.

 

[Peeps]

BTW, I am a convert to Catholicism after almost 50 years of Evangelical Protestantism, including the first 21 years of my life in a Baptist church. I testify that Evangelical Protestants DO have “obligations!” There is a “unwritten list” of “Things that Real Christians DO and DON’T DO,”, and if someone does not accomplish the “Things” on that list, or violates one of the “Things” on that list–the conclusions is that “They were never a Christian to begin with” because if if they WERE a “real Christian,” they would automatically "DO (or not do) the “Things that Real Christians DO and DON’T DO.”

I’ve sen articles about this in Evangelical Protestant magazines and websites. It is shameful to them, but it’s still happening!

The list varies from Evangelical Protestant denomination to denomination, and it has lightened a little (actually a lot!) in recent years. E.g., my church had a WRITTEN POLICY in the Church Statement of Faith of “NO ALCOHOL or involvement with ANY alcoholic establishment, wearing of any apparel that featured a promotion for alcohol, no entering a restaurant that served alcohol or shopping at a store that sold alcohol, no CANDLES that stood in wine bottles, no alcoholic paraphernalia. e.g., wine glasses or other glassware meant for alcohol, etc.”

We felt guilty laughing at the Budweiser frogs!

And we were definitely NOT a “snake-handling” Baptist church! The people in our Conference Baptist Church were (and still are) leaders in local government, law enforcement, medicine and “society”. They weren’t “ignorant” or uneducated or poor (definitely not poor!).

I remember when a German family wanted to join our church, they were grilled about their custom of serving beer with dinner, even to young people. There was a lot of debate about whether they should be allowed to join the church. I believe the decision was “No,” but they were allowed to attend, which they did. (Talk about humility in the face of injustice!).

And I remember when my friend and I saw a man from our church drinking a beer at the bowling alley, we “informed” our church Board, and I believe they called him in for questioning!

But now–all that’s gone. No more prohibition, only cautions about addiction to any substance–it’s still considered “bad” to be addicted to ANYTHING, including coffee, sweets, television, fitness, antiques, shopping, etc.–ANYTHING! (People are addicted anyway, especially to coffee–they’ll drink coffee while sitting in church!)

But there’s still that “List”, and if you don’t fulfil the “obligations”, your Christianity is questionable. “Obligation” is not just a “Catholic Thing.”

Some Protestant churches have attempted to eliminate all “lists” of “obligations,” but then people who do practice some kind of discipline" e.g., praying every day" are looked upon with suspicion because they aren’t “eliminating obligations.” So now it is an “obligation” to “eliminate obligations!”

Ah, the fun, fun world of Protestantism! You gotta love 'em!

 

[slanzill]

1ke I’m not changing my argument at all. And why are you “assuming” that I do not go to mass on all holy days of obligation. In fact I DO go…but I must admit I go out to fear of going to hell. And I have to say I’m uncomfortable with attending mass out of fear. That’s the wrong reason to go to mass. It’s something I’ve prayed about.

 

[Fauken]

The intent of the Holy Days of Obligation is no more forceful than having your children vaccinated. You can choose not to, and there’s a price. Having people go to Mass on days other than Sunday are little booster shots of the grace we all desperately need.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

OP, as a devout Catholic, don’t you like going to Mass, even on a non- Sunday, and spending time with Jesus in person?

If it wasn’t a Marian feast and wasn’t All Saints but instead was the Ascension, are you happy to attend Mass?

How about on an ordinary boring day when you have time and pass by a convenient Mass - do you not like to go?

Devotion generally implies that one is happy to honor God at a Mass and that it’s not something one just does because it’s required. If you’re devout and presumably happy to go to Mass, then why would it ever be a fear-inducing event?

 

[slanzill]

Fauken…thank you for your response. I like that analogy.

 

[TheLittleLady]

That’s what protestants do…they believe everything they are told in the walls of their churches and don’t ask any questions

Rather broad brush. I can introduce you to many well educated Protestants, people who know Scripture and Theology better than I do!

This is why the church is in the mess that it is today and are losing members in droves.

Do you have a study or research to back up these claims? What country are you referencing? Which Diocese?

They come to our church…they don’t understand things…they don’t ask questions…and they leave.

Never before in the history of the world has so much information, knowledge, teaching been available to people of any walk of life, in every nation (except North Korea). You and I can read every Vatican document at the click of a button, we can access every Bible translation, every Catechism, moral theology books, lectures, sermons, classes all from our phone!

Catholics are encouraged to dive deep, to ask questions, Faith seeking understanding. We are founded on Faith and Reason.

In my small, rural Diocese, every parish gives their parishioners access to Formed.org

I work for a parish, people call, message, email me every single day asking questions and I am thrilled to help them find an answer. All of the staff and volunteers are excited to answer questions.

 

[slanzill]

Tis_Bearself Again, I do not have a problem going to mass on those days. That’s not the problem. The issue is being told on certain particular holy days that honor Mary or the Saints that I HAVE TO OR ELSE… That’s what strikes a cord with me. I understand why we HAVE TO on Sundays, Christmas, and Easter. I understand the dire importance on those days.