DESPERATE HELP - holy days of obligation

[TheLittleLady]

If it is, can you direct me to how the assumption is made the God has instructed us that we must visit His mother in order to have salvation?

Working in a parish, do you know how many people have Mass said for their own earthly mother on her birthday or the anniversary of her death? On Mother’s Day we simply have Mass said for all mothers living and deceased because everyone wants that Mass said for their own mom.

Today my best friend is coming from out of town to visit me. What makes this visit even more special, she is bringing her mom! I love my friend, so, her mom is very important in my life. I honor her. If my friend’s mom were to receive an award, I would travel to attend because I love my friend and that would make my friend so happy.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If you like going, can’t you ignore the “have to”?

Example: The police say I “Have To” put my litter in the bin, or I get a fine. I like to put my litter in the bin, because I like to keep the streets and parks looking neat and don’t want to make an eyesore. So the fact that the police said I “Have To” doesn’t matter to me as I’d do it anyway.

 

[slanzill]

The Little Lady The Little Lady… it’s all over the media about how the Catholic church numbers are declining in the U.S. as a whole. Unless the stories are false. I’m in Florida and I know I can speak for the parishes in my area and they have all declined. My own parish 15 years ago was filled to capacity in the main church and the spill over chapel room. Now the main church is only half full. Even on Christmas…the spill over room doesn’t even get opened. This goes for other parishes in my area as well. It’s very sad.

 

[1ke]

1ke I’m not changing my argument at all.

You are actually.

Your original question was about why not attending HDOs is grave matter and how the Church can require it of us. When given answers, you then made up a scenario about a “devout” person who rejects holy days. When responded to, you then changed your argument attempting to say that those answering you are accusing “people who question” of not being “good Catholics”. Which NO ONE did.

And why are you “assuming” that I do not go to mass on all holy days of obligation.

I didn’t assume anything nor did I ever state that you don’t go to HDOs, since obviously I don’t know you and have no idea what you do or don’t do.

In fact I DO go…but I must admit I go out to fear of going to hell. And I have to say I’m uncomfortable with attending mass out of fear. That’s the wrong reason to go to mass. It’s something I’ve prayed about.

Keep praying for understanding. Hopefully in the future you’ll be able to attend out of love, not fear.

 

[CelticWarlord]

to tell a person that they are OBLIGATED to go to church on her feast day or they will be in the state of mortal sin which in turn sends you to hell if not confessed seems outrageous to me

This is one of the reasons I cannot become Catholic, much as I am drawn to it by many other things. If this is what the church is teaching, then I believe the church is simply wrong, imo.

 

[slanzill]

I do believe the church is wrong in this one instance, however I go anyway just in case they are right. I don’t like to play russian roulette with my salvation. But I really think they are way off base with this one. I should go because I genuinely want to go, not because I’m being told I Have to or else I’m committing mortal sin.

 

[humbleseeker]

Maybe this will help you understand the Church’s reasoning:

http://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-v...nts/hf_p-vi_exh_19740202_marialis-cultus.html

 

[Gingersnaps4]

The southern baptist mega church in my area is still like this. You will be ostracized as a sinner if word got out that you drink. Our neighbors are VERY involved in that church and they actually stopped talking to us for a long time…or even waving when we drove past each other…after they saw my husband drinking a beer on our deck while grilling. To them, the issue of alcohol is absolutely tied up in their salvation.

 

[Francis]

I do believe the church is wrong in this one instance,

missing one will also mean you break the other’s also st James says,

I go anyway just in case they are right. I don’t like to play russian roulette with my salvation. But I really think they are way off base with this one. I should go because I genuinely want to go, not because I’m being told I Have to or else I’m committing mortal sin.

Romans 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you wish to have no fear of the authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive its approval; 4 for it is God’s servant for your good. But if you do what is wrong, you should be afraid, for the authority does not bear the sword in vain! It is the servant of God to execute wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be subject, not only because of wrath but also because of conscience. 6 For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, busy with this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is due them—taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.

 

[Gingersnaps4]

I think the BVM HDO’s are important lessons in our salvation history, and a reminder that she is OUR family, too! All Saints Day is a great reminder of our cloud of witnesses that we have, cheering us on, not to mention how all of the people He has saved gives glory to God. I love HDO’s and wish there were more. Yes it’s a difference compared to most of Protestantism, in a wonderful way! We shouldn’t have to apologize or not celebrate the fact that the living are also a part of the ONE body of Christ, we are one family, and we are not cut off from it, like they believe.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

You could also follow the Tridentine calendar and consider Jan 1 as the Circumcision of Our Lord/ Octave of Nativity, but that doesn’t help with the other Marian HDO’s during the year, nor with All Saints.
Since All Saints includes any soul in Heaven, couldn’t you think of loved ones you think/ hope are in Heaven when you go to Mass?

 

[1ke]

I do believe the church is wrong in this one instance,

You believe the Church shouldn’t establish HDOs or you believe the Church has no authority to establish HDOs?

There is a big difference. One is a discipline you disagree with, but follow out of obedience. The other is a doctrinal matter.

You understand the sin is disobedience to the legitimate authority placed over us by Christ, right?

 

[1ke]

This is one of the reasons I cannot become Catholic, much as I am drawn to it by many other things. If this is what the church is teaching, then I believe the church is simply wrong, imo.

What specifically do you think is wrong?

 

[buc_fan33]

I’m not going to pretend to have read this entire thread, it I’ve skimmed enough to have gotten the gist of things. To the OP, as others have said, it’s a precept of the Church. Period. I don’t know where you are, but in most dioceses of the United States, there are only five of these during the course of the year. Of those five, one is Christmas, when everyone goes to Mass anyway. In most years, some will fall on a Sunday place the regular Sunday liturgy for that week, or fall on a Saturday or Monday and be abrogated (excepting the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception). Even if it happens that someone HAS to go to Mass five times over the course of the year in addition to Sunday, we’re talking 57 hours out of 8,760 hours in a year. That seems relatively minor.

If someone were to, sadly, choose to forfeit his or her salvation over “only” blowing off Mass on the Solemnity of Mary, the Mother of God, such a person would be choosing eternal separation from God because he or she has essentially the same attitude as the fallen angels, “My will be done.” The bigger issue here isn’t missing Mass, per se, it’s the underlying attitude of such a person. “I don’t feel like going, so I’m not going.” In a word, tough. Be an adult! There are plenty of things we all have to do everyday that we don’t like. That’s life. I don’t like going to the dentist. Still need to do it. I don’t like paying taxes. Try that excuse with the IRS on April 15, “I just didn’t feel like submitting a return this year. Sorry.”

But let’s talk about the fallen angels for a moment. You know who are the most legalistic beings in God’s creation? Demons. Yup. Demons. They know the rules of the Church far better than any cannonist in his wildest dreams. It drives me nuts when Catholics just say, “These are the rules. Follow em.” We don’t go to heaven because we followed rules. We go to heaven because we follow a Person, who desires to begin heaven in us here on earth, every time we go to Mass. Frankly, if we have the opportunity, there’s no reason every Catholic shouldn’t be at Mass daily, let alone five extra times over the course of a year. It’s not about the rules…it’s about the relationship with the Person of Jesus Christ. That relationship is mediated in and through the Church which He established.

 

[buc_fan33]

Wow. That’s too bad. I was hoping to see Jesus in heaven, but since he drank wine at the Last Supper and turned water into wine, which people (including Him) presumably drank at the wedding in Cana, I guess He won’t be there. Bummer.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Note the chart on pg 11 of this CARA study. Florida is opening new parishes, they are on the increase side:

https://cara.georgetown.edu/caraservices/parishes%20phase%20one.pdf

 

[tafan2]

Part of the Catholic faith is honoring Mary and the saints. These Holy Days of obligation represent the bare minimum we can do to honor them. Like all precepts of the Church, eg mass on Sundays, communion once a year, they are obligations because they are the bare minimum we need to grow in live and faith.

 

[tafan2]

Interesting report. Looking through the excecutive summary and the sections on the sacraments I find it quite sad that the authors seem completely silent on the sacrament of confession. All kinds of statistics for masses, communion services, baptisms, confirmations, etc. The word confession does not seem to appear once.

 

[Peeps]

I’ve seen Protestant “studies” proving (!) that the “wine” Jesus and His disciples drank was non-alcoholic.



Be a little forbearing, though–the “temperance movement” in the U.S. developed because men who drank were dying or being killed and leaving their wives and children absolutely destitute (if they didn’t co-own the property or farm, they were evicted–women had no rights!) and sometimes forced into prostitution. Wealthy women were not immune from this happening to them–forced out of a fine home and setting when their husband succumbed to alcohol-related deaths.

Women around the U.S. banded together to put a stop to drinking alcohol. Generally speaking women didn’t drink much (in bars anyway) because they were home taking care of the home and children while the men were in town, or it simply wasn’t considered “lady-like” for women to go to bars and drink with their husbands. (Plus there were those children at home.)

So that’s where a lot of the intolerance for drinking alcohol got started, and the churches supported this, since they really didn’t support women going into prostitution or other types of servitude.

Obviously prohibition of alcohol was not the answer, since people love drinking alcohol so much that even decent church-going people were willing to break the law to drink, and so criminals had a field day. The bad effects of prohibition are still evident in cities like Chicago and St. Louis.

Also keep in mind that there’s nothing wrong with abstinence. For people like me with an addictive personality (I drink at least 6 20 oz sodas a day, and can’t imagine giving it up), abstinence from substances like alcohol is a necessity for life. For several generations my family has abstained–except for 2 people who died young of alcoholism-related conditions.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There was also a healthy dose of anti-immigrant sentiment in the temperance movement, given that drinking was culturally associated with the Irish, the Italians, and the Germans.