Desperately need financial guidance/wisdom

[zippyvontrapp]

I just want to add that it is so important that my oldest son gets what he needs to develop life skills, because I know I am not going to be on this earth forever. I want his siblings, especially my second son who is closest in age, to be friends. I dont want the others to feel burdened to take care of him instead of starting their own families eventually. I would rather they take care of each other bc of love instead of resentment. The more my oldest can do for himself, the better it is for him and his siblings, too.

 

[Xantippe]

I just want to add that it is so important that my oldest son gets what he needs to develop life skills, because I know I am not going to be on this earth forever. I want his siblings, especially my second son who is closest in age, to be friends. I dont want the others to feel burdened to take care of him instead of starting their own families eventually. I would rather they take care of each other bc of love instead of resentment. The more my oldest can do for himself, the better it is for him and his siblings, too.

Of course.

You’re quite right to be concerned about this.

 

[nodito]

Zippy,

I am a huge proponet of shared bank accounts in marriage. And also in spouses taking each other’s requests and desires seriously. I have a hard time fathoming a loving husband who says to his wife, “deal with it” when she expresses worry about paying “her” bills. There should be no his and her bills. I really believe it should be family money in and family money out. I’m not saying this to criticize you or your handling of the situation; I only mention it so you realize from an outside perspective, the arrangement seems intolerable. So the biggest issue I see here is that you need a marriage counselor to help navigate the bank account arrangement issues.

It would seem bad to tell these charities that you personally are destitute when your household earns above a certain limit but that’s because it’s bad that your husband has put you in this situation, not that you’re in it. It’s a weird, skewed, unfortunate way to go through marriage feeling like you’re not in it together. I’d say most people view marriage as a partnership in that respects and that’s why charities and government ask about household income instead of what each individual household member makes when determining benefits. If my husband makes 70k and I’m a stay-at-home mom, I can’t claim that I’m jobless and poor because the assumption is that my husband’s income is also my income. That’s the way it should be.

Where does the money go now? Do you have separate bank accounts? Do you have access to “his” bank account? What would happen if you were to spend the money on tuition? What if you were to suggest joint bank accounts and no one makes a purchase over a certain limit without discussing it with the other first?

I might also ask him for his honest assessment of the situation, “Sweetie, which does our family need more: food or cable? Cable or tuition? We can’t afford both right now.”

How much are the cars worth and how much do you owe? Dave Ramsey would suggest selling one or both of them and buying a much cheaper car if you can. Is there any way you could carpool or take public transportation and would that save money? What would it cost to move closer to dad’s work or the CP school?

I’ll pray for you, Zippy. I’m sorry that you’re going through this. God bless.

 

[Caroline723]

It is too bad that, at 20 years, this is a deeply-rooted relational issue and not one that will be quickly or easily fixed.

It is appalling and disgusting that a man will not give his wife money to feed his family. Seriously, it is abuse, both spousal and child abuse. Do you see how very very wrong his actions are?

Cable and two car payments are not part of the picture of destitution your first email portrayed. I am not at all saying that you misled us in your first email; I am saying that your family unit should have the money to support a basic and equal lifestyle for all its members. I understand when one spouse feels entitled to a certain lifestyle, at the cost of suffering of his family; my parents had a very similar relationship over money; the difference was that both their names were on their checking account and my mother spent money as she needed to, regardless of what my father told her to do, while he had his cable television, lunches out, and magazine subscriptions while claiming we were poor. Do you two have separate bank accounts? You do not have access to his earnings at all?

At this point I have two pieces of advice for you:

1. if you currently have access to his accounts, go withdraw the money you need to meet basic expenses. if you don’t, you need to go to a family lawyer to see what your options are. I believe there are free legal aid services pretty much everywhere, or a womens center or domestic abuse center could help you find resources.
2. you are right that money is a bad reason to divorce. How about emotional abuse of one’s spouse and children? I didn’t starve growing up, but I had a father always telling me that he was going to throw my mother and us out on the street because we cost too much. Do you know what impact that had on me? I honestly don’t see a difference between what my father did to his family, and what your husband is doing. I am telling you this, because sometimes it is easier to see the abuse of another person, vs when we ourselves are being abused. Your husband is controlling you through money. Perhaps there is hope for your marriage, but not without you asserting yourself through the use of an intermediary. Perhaps the threat of a legal separation will be a wake up call to him to work this out with you.

I feel very very sorry for you, and hope you contemplate on the truth that God never wants us to remain in an abusive marital relationship. And it is not doing your husband any good to allow him to continue behavior that is contrary to what God is asking of him as a husband and father.

 

[Xantippe]

We dont qualify for food stamps. Our income is low for our family size but not that low. Tge problem is that I do not get the $ needed to do my jobs, transportation and running the house. My husband is not on drugs, i dont think anything sinister is happening, other than that he feels he works hard and wants lunch out, purchases here or there, and he is terrible eith money so will buy something while our electricity is about to be cut off. He is not open to cancelling cable, which would probably pay for our food. For 20 years I have been asking to budget, offering help to make a budget…but no.

**Tonight’s a good night. Oh, and pack a lunch for your husband and send it with him tomorrow…and the next day…and the day after that. And then ask him to make a lunch. When you do a budget together, each of you get some “blow money.” If he wants, he can spend his on lunches out. But, budget exactly as much for both of you.

Explain the money situation and that if you don’t get enough to cover your disabled child’s tuition, you are going to cut the cable. And then do it as many times as it takes until he either starts contributing adequately to the family or leaves the cable cut. I would suggest doing an envelope system for your husband, because he seems like the kind of guy who needs the visual reminder of, “Oops! My blow money is all gone!”

You guys can make it if you work together, but if you don’t work together, you won’t.
**

If I go to an organization asking for help, if they see we are not destitute, they will not want to give assistance, and rightfully so. I am destitute but there is household income. Then i would have to explain how I am required to pay some expenses but have no job. I think that would seem bad.

I**n that case, organizations that give financial counseling (like St. Vincent de Paul) would be your next stop. See if you can get your husband to go. If there’s nothing close to you that’s free, you might ask your parents to scholarship you to Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University or something similar–and then drag your husband there. It doesn’t matter how you do it–get him there! After all that your parents have been through with keeping you guys afloat, I think it would be a very good investment for them. **

Our housing costs are very low due to us having a small house, big down payment (wedding money) way before the housing bubble. Our biggest expenses are transportation bc we have two high car payments and probably a combined 500-600/month in gasoline. Is there a way to refinance cars or is this a bad idea?

**That’s very good news. Have a look at Dave Ramsey’s site for advice on how to deal with the car situation. You do have a number of options, but they will probably require cooperation from your husband. **

I dont want to get divorced over money, neither of us is perfect but we have 20 years and have been through alot in that time. I have worked for about 15 of those years, but now with the two little ones, it is really difficult. He himself says me home is easier for him, as he has no responsibility other than going to work. I just wish he would work with me to budget instead of leaving me to fend for myself .

Tell him all of that.

Also, I think Cat’s suggestion of a second job or overtime for him is a really good idea. He may be the kind of guy who would really suffer from cutting expenses (cable and lunches). That’s OK–the other way to deal with that is to increase income.

Talk to him seriously about what it means to have four kids including a disabled child. Fathers of four (even without a disabled kid) do not get to do whatever the flip they want–they have to be prudent, conscientious, and self-sacrificing. And no, just working does not cover “self-sacrificing” if the money is not coming home but is staying at the sandwich shop or going straight to the cable company. As Dave Ramsey would say, “You work too hard and make too much money to be this broke.”

Also talk to him about what it means to have a disabled child who could (with appropriate education and therapy) perhaps become self-sufficient. If you make the appropriate investment in your child now, the child might not need you in 15 years. If you don’t make the right investment and sacrifices now, you may be paying for it for the rest of your lives–your child may never become self-sufficient. I would paint that picture very vividly and make it clear to him that his cable and his lunches out may cost you and your child your future. Of course, there are no guarantees either way, but those are the probabilities.

Best wishes!

 

[Xantippe]

Also, make sure he understands that it’s normal for mothers of four to be home.

It’s even more normal for mothers of four with a seriously disabled child to be home. It’s very difficult to impossible for families to do an adequate job of dealing with a disabled child and also have two full-time earners.

On reflection, is it possible that he doesn’t appreciate what you’re doing because he doesn’t understand what you’re doing? Can you make time to explain to him in detail what you are doing for the family?

 

[Xantippe]

Zippy,

I am a huge proponet of shared bank accounts in marriage. And also in spouses taking each other’s requests and desires seriously. I have a hard time fathoming a loving husband who says to his wife, “deal with it” when she expresses worry about paying “her” bills. There should be no his and her bills. I really believe it should be family money in and family money out. I’m not saying this to criticize you or your handling of the situation; I only mention it so you realize from an outside perspective, the arrangement seems intolerable. So the biggest issue I see here is that you need a marriage counselor to help navigate the bank account arrangement issues.

It would seem bad to tell these charities that you personally are destitute when your household earns above a certain limit but that’s because it’s bad that your husband has put you in this situation, not that you’re in it. It’s a weird, skewed, unfortunate way to go through marriage feeling like you’re not in it together. I’d say most people view marriage as a partnership in that respects and that’s why charities and government ask about household income instead of what each individual household member makes when determining benefits. If my husband makes 70k and I’m a stay-at-home mom, I can’t claim that I’m jobless and poor because the assumption is that my husband’s income is also my income. That’s the way it should be.

Where does the money go now? Do you have separate bank accounts? Do you have access to “his” bank account? What would happen if you were to spend the money on tuition? What if you were to suggest joint bank accounts and no one makes a purchase over a certain limit without discussing it with the other first?

I might also ask him for his honest assessment of the situation, “Sweetie, which does our family need more: food or cable? Cable or tuition? We can’t afford both right now.”

How much are the cars worth and how much do you owe? Dave Ramsey would suggest selling one or both of them and buying a much cheaper car if you can. Is there any way you could carpool or take public transportation and would that save money? What would it cost to move closer to dad’s work or the CP school?

I’ll pray for you, Zippy. I’m sorry that you’re going through this. God bless.

Yes! to nearly all of that.

I’m a little dubious of the second to last paragraph, because I suspect that the OP’s home is so cheap that it might not make sense and I suspect that the OP does not have convenient public transportation, but if it’s a possibility, sure, why not?

In this situation, everything needs to be on the table. The whole point of budgeting is that we have to prioritize and choose between different good things. Is having two cars with large payments more important than having a disabled child in a good school? Is cable more important than electricity to run the TV?

I think I’d also point out to the husband that his income makes you ineligible for many forms of income-based help. If his income is held against you, but you aren’t benefiting from that income, well, what’s the point of it?

Best wishes!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Also, make sure he understands that it’s normal for mothers of four to be home.

It’s even more normal for mothers of four with a seriously disabled child to be home. It’s very difficult to impossible for families to do an adequate job of dealing with a disabled child and also have two full-time earners.

On reflection, is it possible that he doesn’t appreciate what you’re doing because he doesn’t understand what you’re doing? Can you make time to explain to him in detail what you are doing for the family?

Xantippe has been doling out financial advice as wise as Solomon or David on several threads! I will just say that you have been given good advice on this thread. And I cannot imagine a person who needs Dave Ramseys programs as much as you do. Look into it ASAP. Not only will it help but he takes the psychological worry out of it early in the “baby steps”

I don’t know exactly how bad it could be but it may be bad enough that moving back into a parents house is the best option.

 

[Sunbreak]

The problem I’m having in reading all of this is that in most cases, earned income during a marriage is considered the property of both spouses, no matter who earns it. So, you are entitled to your husband’s income and to use it for household expenses. You shouldn’t have to be begging around for other ways to get funds that are already there but your husband won’t give you. Now, maybe you had a different arrangement when you were working too, but since you aren’t working things need to change. Maybe he resents you not working for income but does he have any better suggestions since your children have needs to be met? There is something here that is more problematic than just the money and using Dave Ramsey program or anything else isn’t going to make a fig of difference if he isn’t on board too. I think some kind of couples counseling is required here.

 

[Xantippe]

Xantippe has been doling out financial advice as wise as Solomon or David on several threads!

Awww!

I will just say that you have been given good advice on this thread. And I cannot imagine a person who needs Dave Ramseys programs as much as you do. Look into it ASAP. Not only will it help but he takes the psychological worry out of it early in the “baby steps”

**Yes, yes, yes!

DR is very good at de-shaming people on his program and giving people confidence. Here’s a starter:

daveramsey.com/index.cfm?event=askdave/&intContentItemId=123011**

“Here’s your order of events. You need to take care of what we call the four walls. The four walls of your home have to be protected first. This comes from, “Take care of your own household first.” What do we do? Food—buy your family food. That’s the very first thing you do. The next thing you do is keep the lights and water on—utilities. The next thing you do is take care of shelter. Then you take care of transportation, and then you take care of basic needs clothing. We pay the house payment and the car payment, we eat, and we keep the lights on before we do anything else.”

I would suggest showing that to your husband. First we pay for necessities (food, utilities, mortgage, gas. Then and only then do we pay for other stuff.

I don’t know exactly how bad it could be but it may be bad enough that moving back into a parents house is the best option.

That is definitely an option to be considered.

Good luck to the OP!

 

[ClearWater]

If budgeting is an issue, I know some banks will work with a couple on a budget, often for free. I know mine was willing to do that.

Also, some places give budgeting classes. I know the Salvation Army once offered one in one place. There may be others.

Maybe a marital counselor could also help a couple draw up a sensible budget.

If you got money coming your way, might be good to have a separate bank account to make sure it gets to its required places.

If he is not interested in working on the financial issue, why not go to one of these, alone, and work on this, yourself. Money has done in many a marriage. It’d be a shame if it did yours in…hope it won’t.

We have to know what our money is, live within our means. . . that means HIM, too.

 

[TxGodfollower]

Thank you all for your responses, i feel calmer just reading them. I think i have been hoping and praying that God will miraculously intervene, I know He CAN. But now things are closing in a bit on me and I’m panicking.

I am thankful for the positive thoughts and prayers sent my way.

Thanks to the genius suggestion here, I will be calling my son’s school to see if i can work off his tuition. I am happy to clean toilets, file, mow lawns, whatever they need. Now here’s hoping they are open to this idea!

My parents have helped alot. Car repairs, new air conditioner, appliance repairs, etc,…they have been there. It is bad enough asking for emergencies, but i am mortified to need to ask for daily expenses. I am going to definitely confess and place back the $20 i took. I am so disgusted with myself.

We dont qualify for food stamps. Our income is low for our family size but not that low. Tge problem is that I do not get the $ needed to do my jobs, transportation and running the house. My husband is not on drugs, i dont think anything sinister is happening, other than that he feels he works hard and wants lunch out, purchases here or there, and he is terrible eith money so will buy something while our electricity is about to be cut off. He is not open to cancelling cable, which would probably pay for our food. For 20 years I have been asking to budget, offering help to make a budget…but no.

If I go to an organization asking for help, if they see we are not destitute, they will not want to give assistance, and rightfully so. I am destitute but there is household income. Then i would have to explain how I am required to pay some expenses but have no job. I think that would seem bad.

Our housing costs are very low due to us having a small house, big down payment (wedding money) way before the housing bubble. Our biggest expenses are transportation bc we have two high car payments and probably a combined 500-600/month in gasoline. Is there a way to refinance cars or is this a bad idea?

I dont want to get divorced over money, neither of us is perfect but we have 20 years and have been through alot in that time. I have worked for about 15 of those years, but now with the two little ones, it is really difficult. He himself says me home is easier for him, as he has no responsibility other than going to work. I just wish he would work with me to budget instead of leaving me to fend for myself .

Zippy,
You can refinance car loans. Like I said with the mortgage, you might have to agree to pay more in total (due to longer term) in exchange for a smaller monthly payment. You might also want to see about trading in a car for a more fuel efficient one (if possible). You might have to roll the loan over to the new car, but could help with monthly cash flow.

 

[DarkLight]

Definitely talk to an attorney, and do it sooner rather than later. Even if you don’t divorce there may be other options. I hope and pray that the marriage can be fixed, but you need to protect yourself and your children. If he’s so cavalier with money he’s at a pretty high risk of getting into debt, I would think. Learn how to protect yourself and your children in case he starts racking up debts he can’t pay.

Also make sure you have documentation of his financial irresponsibility. If it does end up in court it will be a good argument for custody. Again none of us want it to end there…but it’s best that you can make sure all the children’s expenses are paid for.

 

[Kal2012]

Everyone has given great advice.

As for the cable bill, we don’t pay for cable, but for the internet connection.

We pay for a business connection (because it’s worth it to us to have consistent pricing, not an initial rate that inflates over time.)

Netflix is $8.99/month (compared to $80-100/regular cable)

Hulu Plus is about the same.

We have a digital antenna hooked up to the back of the TV. I think we spent $20 on that.

Husband can get nearly all of his shows and you can spend a lot less for them.

 

[Xantippe]

Everyone has given great advice.

As for the cable bill, we don’t pay for cable, but for the internet connection.

We pay for a business connection (because it’s worth it to us to have consistent pricing, not an initial rate that inflates over time.)

Netflix is $8.99/month (compared to $80-100/regular cable)

Hulu Plus is about the same.

We have a digital antenna hooked up to the back of the TV. I think we spent $20 on that.

Husband can get nearly all of his shows and you can spend a lot less for them.

Yep.

He probably wants his sports, though, right?