Despite Catholic teachings, women religiously take the pill

[rlg94086]

They may well believe that they’re doing the right thing, that practicing birth control even with the Pill is doing right by the family they have. Numerous Protestants believe exactly that. There are Catholic and Protestant couples with 3, 4, or 5 children who used ABC, then stopped in order to have the next child. Are they going to believe whomever might dare to tell them that the way they had their children was wrong?

Indeed. I agree with you that many Catholics are no different than Protestants. Good point.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Indeed. I agree with you that many Catholics are no different than Protestants. Good point.

And, some leave the Church to become affiliated with a church that doesn’t condemn ABC, so that they can use it with a “clear conscience.”

 

[rlg94086]

And, some leave the Church to become affiliated with a church that doesn’t condemn ABC, so that they can use it with a “clear conscience.”

Indeed. That is what Protestantism is all about…finding a church that agrees with your views rather than accepting the Truth from Christ’s Church.

 

[edwest2]

And, some leave the Church to become affiliated with a church that doesn’t condemn ABC, so that they can use it with a “clear conscience.”

Yes, but I don’t believe that if they’ve been Catholic, at all, for even a few short years, that they have not heard about the Catholic Church’s stand on abortion, contraception and sex in general.

Honestly, even if they’ve left the Church, some secular comments have been made about teen pregnancies and STDs. It’s not just a case of their being poorly Catechized. They can see and hear about what’s going on from other sources. And if they are married, who are they counting on to tell their kids about sex? The school? I have relatives in their teens and early 20s, and they are concerned about their classmates who get pregnant and end up at home, feeling like they don’t have much of a future.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

And if they are married, who are they counting on to tell their kids about sex?

Maybe the same place I learned about it - on the street. Same with my wife. Nevertheless, she was a virgin when we married and I was chaste, we never used birth control, and learning about “how it was done” via the other kids didn’t hurt us.

 

[JimG]

Maybe the same place I learned about it - on the street. Same with my wife. Nevertheless, she was a virgin when we married and I was chaste, we never used birth control, and learning about “how it was done” via the other kids didn’t hurt us.

Sounds about like my own growing up. However, my (Catholic) high school wasn’t passing out condoms. If it had been, I’m sure we would have been tempted to use them to experiment.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Sounds about like my own growing up.

I suspect that that’s where a good number of Catholic kids learned about it. Where else? From their parents, embarrassed to talk about it, the parish priest, who has a lot more to do than be a health instructor, the nuns at school (fat chance!)?

So we learned the mechanics, but the vast majority of kids didn’t go any further with it. My wife remembers discussing it with her teen pals, but all agreed that they were going to wait until some “hunk” (as they referred to guys back then) married then to got the privilege.

 

[sidbrown]

Catholic use of the Pill is practically identical with non-Catholic use in the U.S.

I read that also. And similarly with the abortion rate of Catholics being similar to that of nonCatholics.
But what is the source of this study and how many people have been asked. Has there been more than one study on this?

 

[sidbrown]

And, some leave the Church to become affiliated with a church that doesn’t condemn ABC, so that they can use it with a “clear conscience.”

Are there any other Churches which say that you will go to hell if you commit a mortal sin, and that the use of artificial birth control is a mortal sin?
BTW, has the teaching on mortal sin been changed so that now Catholics can use ABC and still be assured of their eternal salvation?

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Are there any other Churches which say that you will go to hell if you commit a mortal sin, and that the use of artificial birth control is a mortal sin?

The Orthodox Church might use the term “mortal sin,” but others don’t to the best of my knowledge. Other churches consider sin as sin without shading it as we do. But, they do believe that sin will damn you. Almost none, if any, consider the use of ABC a sin.

BTW, has the teaching on mortal sin been changed so that now Catholics can use ABC and still be assured of their eternal salvation?

That’s why some leave the Church and join another, to be free of what the Church teaches. As was discussed, many Catholics simply don’t consider the use of ABC a mortal sin, so do not believe it affects their salvation. The percentage of Catholic couples that rely on ABC is so high that the Church is not getting its message through to them,.

 

[rlg94086]

The Orthodox Church might use the term “mortal sin,” but others don’t to the best of my knowledge. Other churches consider sin as sin without shading it as we do. But, they do believe that sin will damn you. ** Almost none, if any, consider the use of ABC a sin.**

Most did prior to the 1930s. Luther, Calvin, Wesley, etc. all believed that birth control was a sin. However, once you decide that the Church has no authority, you can change your mind about any sin. That is the “truth” and history of Protestantism.

 

[sidbrown]

The Orthodox Church might use the term “mortal sin,” but others don’t to the best of my knowledge. Other churches consider sin as sin without shading it as we do. But, they do believe that sin will damn you. Almost none, if any, consider the use of ABC a sin.

That’s why some leave the Church and join another, to be free of what the Church teaches. As was discussed, many Catholics simply don’t consider the use of ABC a mortal sin, so do not believe it affects their salvation. The percentage of Catholic couples that rely on ABC is so high that the Church is not getting its message through to them,.

What is the percentage of Catholic women taking the pill in the USA?

 

[mdzialo]

The NYT’s reports that 100 million women use the pill in the USA. Also, in the USA, women have aborted fifty million children so far. Some folks even probably think that abc is what keeps the abortion number so low. From this it’s possible to conclude that there’s no logic to sin, merely rationalizations for it.

I believe it is theologically correct to say that sin is nothing (as opposed to being something). It’s what’s known as a privation (it takes away). Like this: there isn’t an apple and a rotten apple; there’s just an apple that can rot. Sin is nothing and it follows that sinners will become nothing. Sinning makes it more easily accept doing things that are sinful because you are breaking yourself up into nothing. All the reasons for sin are just a cover.

Many women would stop using the pill if someone they loved/respected explained that it was a sin and one shouldn’t be doing something that lessens us.

Look at Mexico as an historical example. Very few indian natives converted to Christianity during the first 10 years after the wars with the Spanish. That’s because the men liked paligamy, which was a mainstay of the Aztec culture. The idea of one wife seemed really too much of a restraint. The idea of being retrained is the biggest cover for sin in history.

But then came our Lady of Guadalupe. I have a good photo of the tilma and have starred at Mary’s depiction for hours and hours and days and weeks - a lot - because it is totally unique and beautiful. The blessed mother is so holy and her bearing so correct. WOW. And when the Mexican inidans got hold of it, 9 million converted to Catholicism in a decade. I think they converted because here they could see a better alternative for what a women could be, and they wanted that, too, which in turn changed the cultural sociology abruptly from what it was beforehand.

My mother talked with me about abc, one day, out of the blue, in the 1960’s. She had read or read about the Pope’s H.V. E. I hadn’t thought about the topic beforehand, being a kid, but eventurally I wanted a loving wife, family, and marraige, too, so when she explained the church’s position, it all made sense to me.

After that conversation High School sex classes seemed low class and debased to my way of thinking. Families hold you to a higher standard than the popular culture ever will, and families are also more forgiving at the same time. It would be good if more Priests got on board promoting families and church teachings and spent less time promoting socialism.

Thank God for EWTN. It is a miracle.

 

[sidbrown]

Look at Mexico as an historical example. Very few indian natives converted to Christianity during the first 10 years after the wars with the Spanish. .

Isn’t that because the native indians saw how violent and barbaric the Christian Spanish were. They committed one of the most brutal and criminal genocides in world history by wiping out millions of innocent people.

 

[excubitor]

I’ve read the early church fathers on this subject, and they basically made no distinction between birth control and abortion. In fact as we know today, many forms of birth control are actually abortive anyway.

The two acts go hand in hand. Those who artificially control birth are also the ones who are going to abort when things “go wrong” and the woman gets pregnant.

Personally I think that the hysteria shown about abortion and the relative silence on birth control belies a lot of guilt consciences. People who know they are sinning with ABC but who attack what they perceive to be a greater evil to salve their consciences.

What we are facing is a shocking wave of disobedience and mortal sin in our church. Its not just a pity or a shame. Its an abomination and our church will not flourish until reparation is made and the people turn from their sins.

 

[excubitor]

Isn’t that because the native indians saw how violent and barbaric the Christian Spanish were. They committed one of the most brutal and criminal genocides in world history by wiping out millions of innocent people.

Huh? Do you have any evidence for this prepostorous statement? Sounds like you have been reading too much protestant propoganda.
Sure there were wars and the indigenous nations were overcome in battle. But as for the notion that the spanish were trying to wipe the people out as a genocide, its simply untrue. Studies of skeletal remains show that very few people were killed by violence and that the great majority died of western diseases of which the natives had no immunity, such as smallpox, typhus, influenza and measles. In most cases the epidemics spread ahead of the conquistadors, so that when they arrived at the locations they found the populations already decimated by disease.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conquistador

 

[LittleSoldier]

1. You gave up. How you got a doctoral education by giving up on things after a few pages is a real shocker.
2. I can read it without any issues without a “doctoral education”.

Wow! Really? It’s a Pope speaking not a stand-up comedian. As he says in one of his encyclicals warning people about divorce and contraception:

The Pope isn’t some guy on the street. He has a benefit of perspective and scope that his office naturally gives him, as all high offices give men.

False. In fact, this is one of the more popular teachings my RCIA class -especially the ladies- liked. One young, obedient couple did study and did understand it, and they are only now in University. Perhaps education has improved since your time.

Fear.

Are they afraid there is no governmental assistance for children? Are they afraid -God forbid- the Food Banks are all closing? Are they afraid Public Schools are going to start charging them? Are they afraid the Salvation Army will stop providing clothing? Are they afraid medical science is incapable of almost guaranteering a safe child delivery?

What, exactly, are they afraid of?

And divorce.

And abortion.

What’s your point? For a dude claiming to be educated and acting like he knows what he is talking about, you may want to brush up on the definition of heresy.

You’ve clearly been blessed in life, and obviously that life has lifted you up so far from reality that you can afford not to see the great suffering, loneliness, anxiety and general misery that is rampant in modern generations.

You should be thanking God for a good life, not helping the Devil destroy the lives of today’s generation by turning them against the only institutional authority on Earth that truly loves them and teaches them the Truth so they can be reasonably happy in this life, and perfectly happy forever in the next.

C’mon now. Your post is really uncharitable and inappropriate.

 

[edwest2]

I suspect that that’s where a good number of Catholic kids learned about it. Where else? From their parents, embarrassed to talk about it, the parish priest, who has a lot more to do than be a health instructor, the nuns at school (fat chance!)?

So we learned the mechanics, but the vast majority of kids didn’t go any further with it. My wife remembers discussing it with her teen pals, but all agreed that they were going to wait until some “hunk” (as they referred to guys back then) married then to got the privilege.

The idea that parents were too embarrassed was propaganda put out by radicals who wanted to convince schools to start sex education classes. That is simply false and you tend to overgeneralize by using your own experiences. In the 1960s and at least the early 1970s, here was the drill. I had to sit down with the girl’s father. He and his wife knew all about teenage hormones, and people in their early 20s hormones, which is why he asked me: “So. How are you going to support my daughter?” He asked other practical questions because he knew exactly what it was like to be in my shoes and how I felt. He needed to ask those questions so that I and his daughter would not make a huge mistake.

Today, after 40 years of propaganda, nobody listens to anybody in the family, however, they will listen to outsiders who will encourage them to have lots of sex while not mentioning the consequences. Today’s hook-up culture did not invent itself.

Your comments about nuns reflects the same tendency to overgeneralize. As a matter of fact, in 1973, at my Catholic High School, it was a nun who taught our sex education class.

So people need to ignore the radicals out there who are pushing sex without marriage and easy divorce and easy abortion, realize that dating does not mean sex, and to honor their parents. The day dating turned into casual sex is the day love, real committed love, left the picture.

Perverts should not be running the show. Today, there are committed Catholic parents who are taking the time to home school their kids and keeping them away from the twisted and perverted sexuality that permeates our present culture. The goal is to serve God and not become slaves to the flesh.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

The idea that parents were too embarrassed was propaganda put out by radicals who wanted to convince schools to start sex education classes. That is simply false and you tend to overgeneralize by using your own experiences.

It was indeed my own experience and that of others I knew back in the mid-50s. We knew no radicals who were pushing some sort of propaganda.

In the 1960s and at least the early 1970s, here was the drill. I had to sit down with the girl’s father. He and his wife knew all about teenage hormones, and people in their early 20s hormones, which is why he asked me: “So. How are you going to support my daughter?” He asked other practical questions because he knew exactly what it was like to be in my shoes and how I felt. He needed to ask those questions so that I and his daughter would not make a huge mistake.

Now, you’re the one overgeneralizing. When I was dating my future wife in the mid-1960s, I hardly ever met my future FIL. To be sure, my to-be fiancee was already a 24 year old working woman (teacher) and I an Air Force officer, so our maturity would have precluded the scene you portrayed.

Your comments about nuns reflects the same tendency to overgeneralize. As a matter of fact, in 1973, at my Catholic High School, it was a nun who taught our sex education class.

I had nuns in grammar school, and Jesuits in high school. The only thing related to sex I ever heard from one of them was before a boatride, when the Asst. Principal announced drily, “You’re all entitled to make a mistake, but don’t make it on our boatride.” We ALL knew what he meant.

 

[Donna_Mc]

I don’ t understand why a woman would want to risk their health taking the pill to start with, the church has her best interest in mind. My 19 year old daughter hates all those birth control pill commercials, saying that she would never want to risk her health like that!